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Post by runie on Jul 27, 2017 13:05:40 GMT
Leipzeg, Totenham, Napoli and Monaco and (always Athletico) Sadly not one will get better this year... the usual suspects will be back  as always) Who's yours from the top 5 leagues? and can any of them give the big money teams any long term competition? |
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Post by Carl LaFong on Jul 27, 2017 13:16:19 GMT
Are they your fave teams from those leagues, Runie?
I don't really have favourites, except maybe Leipzig. But I'd be fickle enough to dump them if they got relegated, say!
Of course, Arsenal are my English team. I do like Spurs too though- more than City, Utd, Liverpool, Chelsea anyway.
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Post by runie on Jul 27, 2017 13:20:53 GMT
my fav teams for the seasons - all of them made each league more interesting.
Off course My fav team is Palace.
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Post by Carl LaFong on Jul 27, 2017 13:24:07 GMT
Yeah, hard to argue with any of your choices for last season.
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Post by runie on Jul 27, 2017 13:40:21 GMT
The bigger teams are strengthening yet none of the above mentioned are so...... It will be interesting to see what Totenham do - unlike the others they do can be immune from selling players. but at wembley and with no kyle walker and probally no one that will improve the first 11- maybe a back up or two - (barkley isnt a starter imo) the rest will/are being raided. but PSG, man u, man city, chelsea and Juve will be under so much pressure to stop fcking about (domestic and europe)- and to get closer to the top 3 in the world- if you stick you are not moving forward. Loved watching leipzeg and totenham especially this year. Chelsea bored me if i am gonna be honest and barca always do(not due to a lack of skill but to a lack of action). RM can play crazy stuff to be fair - i dont mind there game as a spectacle or bayerns. But Totenhams and Leipzegs topped both. (also big shout out to Napoli that scored for fun not unlike totenham) bar off course Palaces dismantling of the top PL sides at the end of the season  |
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Post by WullieFort on Jul 27, 2017 13:54:48 GMT
I'll be following some teams more closely than normal because I have a hunch that they are ready for an exceptional season.
Seville
Everton
AC Milan
Monaco (Want to see how they fare after their summer sales
I would ahve added Southampton but they have a habit of getting a decent squad together and then selling them.
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Post by runie on Jul 27, 2017 14:20:24 GMT
Everton have done ok with the cash they got i suppose. But are they just solidifying 7th spot completely?
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Post by bluerisk on Jul 27, 2017 18:19:59 GMT
Leipzeg, Totenham, Napoli and Monaco and (always Athletico) Sadly not one will get better this year... the usual suspects will be back as always) Who's yours from the top 5 leagues? and can any of them give the big money teams any long term competition? Totenham? It seems to be no typo...so what is the backstory or is it even a word-play - like deadham (seceretly studied German?) I would almost say Leverkusen seeing it from the longer point of view, but the most recent contenter from the lower department is Leipzig, and I like them: the so-called Traditionsclub supporter can't eat as much as they want in order to puke, I love Rangnick and Leipzig is bringing a new level of professionalism in the league. Shitaly: meh (and they don't have four CL-berths...for now) France: Monaco...albeit it was Marseille that won the first CL-Cup Spain: Atletico for certain but compare to other leagues top tiers England: West Ham (Tottenham is more like the new "big six"...it's more like Arsenal might lose it => new "big five: Chelsea, ManU. ManCity, Tottenham and that club from Liverpool (not Everton)) |
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Post by runie on Jul 27, 2017 18:54:27 GMT
Tottenham - the way they played and the introduction of some British talent. I think many English peops have a soft spot for them. Sadly like many english sportsmen(especially footballers) - they seem to have a lack of bottle... But if they didnt would Iwelike them?
But secretly(or maybe not so...) us Brits have Schadenfreude.......(edit - Schadenfreude for ourselves - rather than others , if there is a word for that!)
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Post by mandragora on Jul 28, 2017 10:25:10 GMT
I would almost say Leverkusen seeing it from the longer point of view, but the most recent contenter from the lower department is Leipzig, and I like them: the so-called Traditionsclub supporter can't eat as much as they want in order to puke, I love Rangnick and Leipzig is bringing a new level of professionalism in the league. I've all but given up hope with Leverkusen. Unless Völler gets the fuck out there nothing will change at that club. Agree on Leipzig and the so-called "Traditionsclubs". Here's hoping that Hoffenheim can keep Nagelsmann for another two or three years, and keep their level. Do you see any chance that Hopp might come around and inject some more money in there? That the new competition from Leipzig with Rangnick of all people at the helm might spark some new ambition with him? |
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Post by bluerisk on Jul 28, 2017 14:18:41 GMT
I would almost say Leverkusen seeing it from the longer point of view, but the most recent contenter from the lower department is Leipzig, and I like them: the so-called Traditionsclub supporter can't eat as much as they want in order to puke, I love Rangnick and Leipzig is bringing a new level of professionalism in the league. I've all but given up hope with Leverkusen. Unless Völler gets the fuck out there nothing will change at that club. Agree on Leipzig and the so-called "Traditionsclubs". Here's hoping that Hoffenheim can keep Nagelsmann for another two or three years, and keep their level. Do you see any chance that Hopp might come around and inject some more money in there? That the new competition from Leipzig with Rangnick of all people at the helm might spark some new ambition with him? As for Hopp: nope, I think he stands for this classical German "fiscal conversatism". A solid Bundesliga-member is all he asks for. Europe is a bonus. Leipzig and Red Bull is different - they want to play a bigger part. Also coming from a rather step by step mentality, but also with the aim for more, and the willingness to pay for it when needed. The final goal is to be on par with Dortmund and maybe one day with Bayern, but more so to be a solid CL-contender. The CL is what Rangnick is about. I think that's why Rangnick left Hoffenheim (and later on many of his older co-workers join him when Leipzig was ready*): Hopp and Rangnick had different goals but Rangnick wanted more, far more than Hopp, and Leipzig is offering him the resources he asks for. *the fact that many followed Rangnick's call after years with Hoffenheim shows his quality as boss, and the trust they have in his vision how to lead a club like Leipzig from the bottom to the top. Leverkus: I was more thinking in the long-term. Unlike Spain, Italy or England the Bundesliga lacks a "closed society" of top clubs. Most of the time there was only one major contender that lost it at some point: Aside from the founding years in the 60s: Gladbach in the 70s The HSV in the 80s the BVB from the 90s onwards with some severe crisis'. But there was never a "big four" like in England, a league within the league. The Bundesliga, the last professional league that was founded of the big five, always trailed behind in terms of money and professionalism. And a major part is contributed to the fact that we always lagged behind from day one so to speak - the other had a professional league and income years before the Bundesliga was founded, and even after its foundation the most clubs were still run like a small town club by armateurs, mostly wealthy local patrons who considered these clubs as their toys. And when I see presidents like Tönnies...no wonder that Schalke is going nowhere - a lost decade. Watze is also hindering the BVB to become a really great club. Not to mention the likes of Berlin, Wolfsburg, Leverkusen, Gladbach, HSV, Bremen etc. pp. some shining moments or even years only to fall back entirely. |
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Post by mandragora on Jul 29, 2017 11:20:10 GMT
Didn't like Watzke even before last season and the affair with Tuchel was the last straw. There are a lot of things going wrong there, starting from their victim and underdog mentality to their sentimentality and not least Watzke's compensation structure. It's not a good idea to link a CEO's bonus payments to monetary instead of sporting success. But except for a few he's still the hero with their fans who can't do no wrong and would never put his own interests above the club's. They're nowhere near as bad as Schalke though, who should be the clear No 3 given the size of the club. Leverkusen and Wolfsburg, I think the affiliation with the company has turned into a hindrance rather than a benefit now. As for the likes of HSV, Frankfurt, Stuttgart, don't get me started. I don't care whether they have 5000 years of tradition, as long as they're managed like pub teams and keep burning millions only to struggle against relegation every season I'll take the village club and Leipzig over them any day.
Anyway, to answer runie's question,
Germany, Leipzig and Hoffenheim (yeah, the two most hated clubs)
England, Tottenham
France, think I'll keep an eye on Nice, as I really like Favre's work
Italy, don't know, will be interesting how Milan will be doing with all the money the spent (I know they don't really qualify as top5 currently, but still).
Spain, Atleti and Seville.
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Post by runie on Jul 31, 2017 12:12:52 GMT
I've all but given up hope with Leverkusen. Unless Völler gets the fuck out there nothing will change at that club. Agree on Leipzig and the so-called "Traditionsclubs". Here's hoping that Hoffenheim can keep Nagelsmann for another two or three years, and keep their level. Do you see any chance that Hopp might come around and inject some more money in there? That the new competition from Leipzig with Rangnick of all people at the helm might spark some new ambition with him? As for Hopp: nope, I think he stands for this classical German "fiscal conversatism". A solid Bundesliga-member is all he asks for. Europe is a bonus. Leipzig and Red Bull is different - they want to play a bigger part. Also coming from a rather step by step mentality, but also with the aim for more, and the willingness to pay for it when needed. The final goal is to be on par with Dortmund and maybe one day with Bayern, but more so to be a solid CL-contender. The CL is what Rangnick is about. I think that's why Rangnick left Hoffenheim (and later on many of his older co-workers join him when Leipzig was ready*): Hopp and Rangnick had different goals but Rangnick wanted more, far more than Hopp, and Leipzig is offering him the resources he asks for. *the fact that many followed Rangnick's call after years with Hoffenheim shows his quality as boss, and the trust they have in his vision how to lead a club like Leipzig from the bottom to the top. Leverkus: I was more thinking in the long-term. Unlike Spain, Italy or England the Bundesliga lacks a "closed society" of top clubs. Most of the time there was only one major contender that lost it at some point: Aside from the founding years in the 60s: Gladbach in the 70s The HSV in the 80s the BVB from the 90s onwards with some severe crisis'. But there was never a "big four" like in England, a league within the league. The Bundesliga, the last professional league that was founded of the big five, always trailed behind in terms of money and professionalism. And a major part is contributed to the fact that we always lagged behind from day one so to speak - the other had a professional league and income years before the Bundesliga was founded, and even after its foundation the most clubs were still run like a small town club by armateurs, mostly wealthy local patrons who considered these clubs as their toys. And when I see presidents like Tönnies...no wonder that Schalke is going nowhere - a lost decade. Watze is also hindering the BVB to become a really great club. Not to mention the likes of Berlin, Wolfsburg, Leverkusen, Gladbach, HSV, Bremen etc. pp. some shining moments or even years only to fall back entirely. i think most people see BVB as a top club like Bayern that plays very well 'most' of the time. (from outside germany) - but with an inferiority complex over a real competitive streak to try and dismantle Bayern. |
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Post by mandragora on Jul 31, 2017 13:20:16 GMT
They keep whining how they are so much poorer than Bayern and hence have no chance to genuinely challenge for the title. Being so much poorer than Real and Barca doesn't stop Atletico from challenging for the title in Spain - and AFAIK they are more behind those two than Dortmund is behind Bayern.
In my opinion, there's two factors working together in an unfortunate way. The first is that Dortmund was on the verge of insolvency 11 years ago, that was when Watzke was appointed CEO and with smart dealings and a considerable amount of luck, as well a little help from Bayern, he managed to avoid the bankruptcy. It's understandable from that background that he's a conservative and not particularly bold businessman. It's probably as much in his character as motivated by experience.
The other factor is a cultural one. Dortmund is by West German standards a rather poor city, workers milieu, high unemployment, traditionally social-democrats at the helm. Their fanbase like to see themselves as the underdogs and not only the underdogs, but actually the victims, especially as compared to a club from Munich, in one of the richest states in Germany.
Watzke actually is disliked by some of their ultras for trying to improve the commercial basis of the club with the Asian promotion tour and stuff like that. They feel their club is losing authenticity. They have also a very annoying mindset of sentimentality. A club that's run under the motto of "true love", the almost guru-like personality cult under Klopp, and that "bring home the lost sons" transfer policy with Sahin, Kagawa and Götze - none of those transfers has been a success, though the ultimate verdict about Götze is still out, I guess.
The problem is those things don't work well together if you're going to be a European top club. Timid management practices, sentimentality, and a victim mentality. As much as he deserves to be commended for bringing them back to the top after near-insolvency, he hinders them now from taking the next step. They have to stop whining already and get to work.
The manner he let Tuchel down still infuriates me. He gave him a promise that not all three of Hummels, Mkhitaryan and Gündogan would be sold. Dortmund fans were convinced he'd sell at most one of them. Then he sells all three and leaves Tuchel with the job of challenging for the 2nd spot with a boy group. And what's more, not only did he sell those above mentioned three, they also failed to get Tuchel the three players he wanted most. Dahoud, Toprak, Bellarabi. They couldn't do much in regard to Dahoud, but with Bellarabi they took action too late, when his exit clause had already expired, and with Toprak it was about 5m € more they didn't want to pay to Leverkusen. 5m, with them having earned like 100m by selling Hummels, Gündogan and Mkhi.
That's why I feel for Dortmund to move forward Watzke has to go. He's a businessman, he used to run a protective wear company before he took over Dortmund. He never was a footballer or a coach. There was absolutely no need to let the coach down like this. They aren't Augsburg or Freiburg, they aren't THAT short of money.
Something like that would have never happened in Munich, or in Leipzig. If it was Dortmund Liverpool had dealt with, I'm sure Naby Keita would be a Liverpool player now.
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Post by runie on Jul 31, 2017 13:51:42 GMT
Its interesting and I can imagine if there was only one top Londin club they would probally be untouchable - but due to the Englsh systems global reach for decades ,liverpool amd man u (with london split so much into so many clubs) - the poorer areas can compete and have reigned supreme for about 40 years really. untill now (but then man city have the best ability into becoming the next wc european team from the pl)
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Post by bluerisk on Jul 31, 2017 15:34:23 GMT
Its interesting and I can imagine if there was only one top Londin club they would probally be untouchable - but due to the Englsh systems global reach for decades ,liverpool amd man u (with london split so much into so many clubs) - the poorer areas can compete and have reigned supreme for about 40 years really. untill now (but then man city have the best ability into becoming the next wc european team from the pl) As big as London is - and it is huge - Manchester and Liverpool aren't nobodies. But you're right: London is that big, that it has plenty of top tiers. German cities have at best two: Bayern; 1860 (back in the day they claimed the championship and Bayern was the number 2 in Munich), Hamburg: HSV; St. Pauli. In in some ense you could call the Ruhrpott Ruhr area, (in the newest CIV version a world wounder) a "city" (or metropolitan area) and then you have plenty of big teams: Dortmund, Schalke, Gladbach, Köln, Leverkusen etc. pp. Germans love football, but it may never be "tainted" by money. Money is bad; no matter what. |
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Post by runie on Jul 31, 2017 16:17:57 GMT
english love football just as much(we are not as good but the passion is no different) - and despite saying 'money is a no no'
fans only say that until they get it,
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Post by mandragora on Jul 31, 2017 20:21:41 GMT
Its interesting and I can imagine if there was only one top Londin club they would probally be untouchable - but due to the Englsh systems global reach for decades ,liverpool amd man u (with london split so much into so many clubs) - the poorer areas can compete and have reigned supreme for about 40 years really. untill now (but then man city have the best ability into becoming the next wc european team from the pl) It's not just about richer areas and poorer areas. Frankfurt and Stuttgart are very rich cities in very rich areas and the management in those clubs is just completely shit. Same goes for Hamburg. With Dortmund it's not being a poorer area (by West German standards) per se, it's the backwards-minded and romantic mentality that accompanies it. Dortmund is still a considerably wealthier city than Leipzig. But in Leipzig there's a sense of atmosphere of departure (not just the club, which is owned by an Austrian and shaped by Swabians, but the entire city), whereas in the Ruhrpott you have that ever-whiny victims mentality. Has something to do IMO with the region still struggling to get rid of their dependence on old obsolete industries. |
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Post by runie on Aug 5, 2017 12:31:28 GMT
Its not really about the area - its about the global reach - the PL has been getting money globally for decades that over shadows other european leagues - those fans do not care about the slums te stadiums sit in.
But Londons name as the city with one club only it is would have made it fcking massive, i have zero doubts on that score
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Post by runie on Aug 5, 2017 12:41:24 GMT
Leipzeg have a chance to take east germany as a whole (almost) and are not afraid of doing business to increase there clout globally- I cant see them bowing down to bayern if they can continue in the vein they are and get close- I fully support them and the ex east germany deserves it.
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as always)
