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Post by pk9 on Jul 31, 2017 22:32:55 GMT
The problem is the North can't go anywhere right now because there's another army on their northern flank, and that's their primary concern.
Perhaps if they were willing to adopt the Lannisters' strategy and completely evacuate the North, falling back to defend the Neck instead...
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The Lost One
Junior Member
@lostkiera
Posts: 2,677
Likes: 1,303
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Post by The Lost One on Aug 3, 2017 13:45:57 GMT
The battles, strategy, & logistics of the show are officially horrible. The bad: Hated everything about the invasion plans and the apparent extent of the attack last week made that battle worse too. Highgarden, who once were considered the equal of the Lannisters is now horrible at battle. Euron just pops up at will. Spies & ravens simply do not exist anymore. Also, the wealthiest families had the weakest castles. A huge change from the books. Casterly Rock is a huge rock which is the main reason it's impenetrable. Highgarden has 3 walls to Winterfell's 2, but an army can just walk right up to it without a siege. Ugh... Yeah I could have sworn they said House Tyrell had the largest army in the 7 kingdoms in an earlier episode. Did House Tarly abandon them? Otherwise I can't understand how they could fall so easily, especially when they were in the defensive position. And surely the Lannister army must be getting weak by now after the fighting with the Starks and the Blackfish, not to mention leaving a token force behind at Casterly Rock? And yeah how can Euron move so quickly? He can't have been with the ships that attacked Daenerys' at Casterly Rock for it to make sense.
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Post by CynicalDreamer2 on Aug 3, 2017 18:45:47 GMT
The battles, strategy, & logistics of the show are officially horrible. The bad: Hated everything about the invasion plans and the apparent extent of the attack last week made that battle worse too. Highgarden, who once were considered the equal of the Lannisters is now horrible at battle. Euron just pops up at will. Spies & ravens simply do not exist anymore. Also, the wealthiest families had the weakest castles. A huge change from the books. Casterly Rock is a huge rock which is the main reason it's impenetrable. Highgarden has 3 walls to Winterfell's 2, but an army can just walk right up to it without a siege. Ugh... Yeah I could have sworn they said House Tyrell had the largest army in the 7 kingdoms in an earlier episode. Did House Tarly abandon them? Otherwise I can't understand how they could fall so easily, especially when they were in the defensive position. And surely the Lannister army must be getting weak by now after the fighting with the Starks and the Blackfish, not to mention leaving a token force behind at Casterly Rock? And yeah how can Euron move so quickly? He can't have been with the ships that attacked Daenerys' at Casterly Rock for it to make sense. Yup, they sure did. Very dishonorable of Randall IMO especially considering that the Tyrell's did absolutely nothing to them. Another reason they lost is because they were outnumbered, unprepared and they couldn't fight very well.
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The Lost One
Junior Member
@lostkiera
Posts: 2,677
Likes: 1,303
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Post by The Lost One on Aug 3, 2017 19:53:25 GMT
Yup, they sure did. Very dishonorable of Randall IMO especially considering that the Tyrell's did absolutely nothing to them. Ah ok. I remember Jaime trying to convince Randall to change sides but I thought it was left up in the air whether he would or not. Did I miss something?
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Post by pk9 on Aug 3, 2017 21:07:15 GMT
Yup, they sure did. Very dishonorable of Randall IMO especially considering that the Tyrell's did absolutely nothing to them. Ah ok. I remember Jaime trying to convince Randall to change sides but I thought it was left up in the air whether he would or not. Did I miss something? No, that's just the way the story is told on the show. Show a scene of a character having to make a decision, but leave it ambiguous until the time they want to do a big reveal. Like right now we don't know for sure whether Arya is heading to Winterfell or turned back south. We won't find out until Arya arrives at her destination (or if she's incognito, when she does something significant and rips off her fake face).
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Post by Aj_June on Aug 3, 2017 22:48:00 GMT
The battles, strategy, & logistics of the show are officially horrible. The bad: Hated everything about the invasion plans and the apparent extent of the attack last week made that battle worse too. Highgarden, who once were considered the equal of the Lannisters is now horrible at battle. Euron just pops up at will. Spies & ravens simply do not exist anymore. Also, the wealthiest families had the weakest castles. A huge change from the books. Casterly Rock is a huge rock which is the main reason it's impenetrable. Highgarden has 3 walls to Winterfell's 2, but an army can just walk right up to it without a siege. Ugh... Yeah I could have sworn they said House Tyrell had the largest army in the 7 kingdoms in an earlier episode. Did House Tarly abandon them? Otherwise I can't understand how they could fall so easily, especially when they were in the defensive position. And surely the Lannister army must be getting weak by now after the fighting with the Starks and the Blackfish, not to mention leaving a token force behind at Casterly Rock? And yeah how can Euron move so quickly? He can't have been with the ships that attacked Daenerys' at Casterly Rock for it to make sense. There was considerable reason for Tyrell's Vassals to abandon them. Dany brought dothraki monsters who might rape their women and plunder their country in future. Reality is much different than how we picture it. Those dothraki scum are nothing but monsters. House Tyrell itself has never been known for fidelity but they almost always abandon the side they deem is not going to win the conflict. House Tarly had protested when the Lord of House Tyrell was made the warden of the south. It's also a fact that Tyrells claimed Tarly's success in Robert's rebellion as their own. The Army of Vale is the largest with 25,000 soldiers.
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Post by CynicalDreamer2 on Aug 4, 2017 0:21:44 GMT
Ah ok. I remember Jaime trying to convince Randall to change sides but I thought it was left up in the air whether he would or not. Did I miss something? No, that's just the way the story is told on the show. Show a scene of a character having to make a decision, but leave it ambiguous until the time they want to do a big reveal. Like right now we don't know for sure whether Arya is heading to Winterfell or turned back south. We won't find out until Arya arrives at her destination (or if she's incognito, when she does something significant and rips off her fake face). Why do you think Arya may turn south? I thought it was pretty clear she decided to go home.
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Post by Marv on Aug 4, 2017 0:33:06 GMT
No, that's just the way the story is told on the show. Show a scene of a character having to make a decision, but leave it ambiguous until the time they want to do a big reveal. Like right now we don't know for sure whether Arya is heading to Winterfell or turned back south. We won't find out until Arya arrives at her destination (or if she's incognito, when she does something significant and rips off her fake face). Why do you think Arya may turn south? I thought it was pretty clear she decided to go home. Her meet with Nymeria. If the direwolves can be considered a reflection of each Stark then the consideration of going home, Nymerias refusal, Aryas recognition that 'that's not you' can easily be seen as a reflection on herself. That Winterfell isn't her home anymore. She no longer fits there. All her scenes in episode 2 kind of reflect this about Arya. Her coming to grips with who's she's become now that she's back in Westeros. Personally I don't think she goes back to Westeros and am wondering if the introduction of Tycho in Kings Landing will present an opportunity for Arya to get close to Cersei.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Aug 4, 2017 0:50:26 GMT
The battles, strategy, & logistics of the show are officially horrible. The bad: Hated everything about the invasion plans and the apparent extent of the attack last week made that battle worse too. Highgarden, who once were considered the equal of the Lannisters is now horrible at battle. Euron just pops up at will. Spies & ravens simply do not exist anymore. Also, the wealthiest families had the weakest castles. A huge change from the books. Casterly Rock is a huge rock which is the main reason it's impenetrable. Highgarden has 3 walls to Winterfell's 2, but an army can just walk right up to it without a siege. Ugh... Yeah I could have sworn they said House Tyrell had the largest army in the 7 kingdoms in an earlier episode. Did House Tarly abandon them? Otherwise I can't understand how they could fall so easily, especially when they were in the defensive position. And surely the Lannister army must be getting weak by now after the fighting with the Starks and the Blackfish, not to mention leaving a token force behind at Casterly Rock? And yeah how can Euron move so quickly? He can't have been with the ships that attacked Daenerys' at Casterly Rock for it to make sense. Apparently Highgarden was acting largely on its own which in and of itself makes no sense. They called NO bannermen when Cercei declared war on them last season? Not only did the Tyrell's have the largest army and wealthiest house (Meaning if they were weak, they could hire mercenaries), they also were renowned for their knights. They knew how to fight all the way to this season. If Tarley had the best fighters, then why didn;t he go for Highgarden the moment the Tyrell's were obliterated? They were powerful enough to cause a food blockade but can't actually stop the Lannisters? Ugh. I said Euron but it's entirely possible the fleet is split and Casterly Rock is fairly close to Pyke, but there's no way a fleet can sneak up on another fleet nor anyone noticing it until Greyworm looks over the wall. You can tell that the writers, who are experts at personal dialogue are going way off book regarding the strategic parts of battle from the books.
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Post by CynicalDreamer2 on Aug 4, 2017 0:53:11 GMT
Why do you think Arya may turn south? I thought it was pretty clear she decided to go home. Her meet with Nymeria. If the direwolves can be considered a reflection of each Stark then the consideration of going home, Nymerias refusal, Aryas recognition that 'that's not you' can easily be seen as a reflection on herself. That Winterfell isn't her home anymore. She no longer fits there. All her scenes in episode 2 kind of reflect this about Arya. Her coming to grips with who's she's become now that she's back in Westeros. Personally I don't think she goes back to Westeros and am wondering if the introduction of Tycho in Kings Landing will present an opportunity for Arya to get close to Cersei. Well she already is in Westeros, did you mean Winterfell? Anyway, good point about her and Nymeria, I didn't consider that, thanks. I really don't want her in KL though because I think remaining undetected will get unrealistic real quick.
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Post by Marv on Aug 4, 2017 0:59:34 GMT
Her meet with Nymeria. If the direwolves can be considered a reflection of each Stark then the consideration of going home, Nymerias refusal, Aryas recognition that 'that's not you' can easily be seen as a reflection on herself. That Winterfell isn't her home anymore. She no longer fits there. All her scenes in episode 2 kind of reflect this about Arya. Her coming to grips with who's she's become now that she's back in Westeros. Personally I don't think she goes back to Westeros and am wondering if the introduction of Tycho in Kings Landing will present an opportunity for Arya to get close to Cersei. Well she already is in Westeros, did you mean Winterfell? Anyway, good point about her and Nymeria, I didn't consider that, thanks. I really don't want her in KL though because I think remaining undetected will get unrealistic real quick. Yes sorry, meant Winterfell. I dont really see her getting to Cersei, at least not to kill her. Maybe a failed attempt tho. Shes had a string of success since the end of last season and no good story is without its downturn. Id more expect her to run into Mellisandre or the Brotherhood tho.
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Post by CynicalDreamer2 on Aug 4, 2017 1:12:28 GMT
Well she already is in Westeros, did you mean Winterfell? Anyway, good point about her and Nymeria, I didn't consider that, thanks. I really don't want her in KL though because I think remaining undetected will get unrealistic real quick. Yes sorry, meant Winterfell. I dont really see her getting to Cersei, at least not to kill her. Maybe a failed attempt tho. Shes had a string of success since the end of last season and no good story is without its downturn. Id more expect her to run into Mellisandre or the Brotherhood tho. [/quote] I would MUCH rather see her get back with the Brotherhood and the Hound. Imagine her surprise that he didn't die. Arya is actually one of my least favorite characters so I hope in her years away she's gotten some wisdom and won't treat him as horribly as she did when he was protecting her.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Aug 4, 2017 1:53:42 GMT
Yeah I could have sworn they said House Tyrell had the largest army in the 7 kingdoms in an earlier episode. Did House Tarly abandon them? Otherwise I can't understand how they could fall so easily, especially when they were in the defensive position. And surely the Lannister army must be getting weak by now after the fighting with the Starks and the Blackfish, not to mention leaving a token force behind at Casterly Rock? And yeah how can Euron move so quickly? He can't have been with the ships that attacked Daenerys' at Casterly Rock for it to make sense. There was considerable reason for Tyrell's Vassals to abandon them. Dany brought dothraki monsters who might rape their women and plunder their country in future. Reality is much different than how we picture it. Those dothraki scum are nothing but monsters. House Tyrell itself has never been known for fidelity but they almost always abandon the side they deem is not going to win the conflict. House Tarly had protested when the Lord of House Tyrell was made the warden of the south. It's also a fact that Tyrells claimed Tarly's success in Robert's rebellion as their own. The Army of Vale is the largest with 25,000 soldiers. It was silly to think that Highgarden wouldn't inform their most powerful houses of their intent. This is especially the case if the Tarly's were an actual threat. They certainly wouldn't want them dangling around. The Baratheon & Tyrell forces numbered 100,000 during the battle of the 5 kings with the Tyrell forces making up a significant portion.
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Post by Aj_June on Aug 4, 2017 13:39:39 GMT
There was considerable reason for Tyrell's Vassals to abandon them. Dany brought dothraki monsters who might rape their women and plunder their country in future. Reality is much different than how we picture it. Those dothraki scum are nothing but monsters. House Tyrell itself has never been known for fidelity but they almost always abandon the side they deem is not going to win the conflict. House Tarly had protested when the Lord of House Tyrell was made the warden of the south. It's also a fact that Tyrells claimed Tarly's success in Robert's rebellion as their own. The Army of Vale is the largest with 25,000 soldiers. It was silly to think that Highgarden wouldn't inform their most powerful houses of their intent. This is especially the case if the Tarly's were an actual threat. They certainly wouldn't want them dangling around. The Baratheon & Tyrell forces numbered 100,000 during the battle of the 5 kings with the Tyrell forces making up a significant portion. Currently in the show the army of the Vale is healthiest and highest in number. Martin has said that in the books, traditionally the Reach has highest numbers but Lannisters are almost equal in strength but richer.. Martin indicates the numbers to be around: Highgarden - 40,000 Lannisters - 35,000 North - 18,000 Vale - 18,000 Dorne - 18,000 Riverland - No numbers provided Stormland -No numbers provided Dragonstone - Smallest army He says Dragonstone is the least powerful and Riverland have divided leadership and lack of natural boundaries.
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Post by pk9 on Aug 4, 2017 23:44:59 GMT
Why do you think Arya may turn south? I thought it was pretty clear she decided to go home. Her meet with Nymeria. If the direwolves can be considered a reflection of each Stark then the consideration of going home, Nymerias refusal, Aryas recognition that 'that's not you' can easily be seen as a reflection on herself. That Winterfell isn't her home anymore. She no longer fits there. All her scenes in episode 2 kind of reflect this about Arya. Her coming to grips with who's she's become now that she's back in Westeros. Personally I don't think she goes back to Westeros and am wondering if the introduction of Tycho in Kings Landing will present an opportunity for Arya to get close to Cersei. I only brought it up because there have been many people theorizing that she turned south, not because I think it actually happened. From a narrative standpoint, it makes no sense for Arya to turn back south. She was headed for Kings Landing when the episode began, then she changed her mind after meeting Hot Pie, and then a mere five minutes later she encounters Nymeria and.... heads for KL again? Why would you waste precious minutes of screentime to bring back two characters who have been gone for years, one of which needs a large expenditure for CGI, just to have Arya end the episode in the same "place" as she began? It adds nothing to the story. I could see having her go north for a few episodes, learn something important or pick up an item of significance or something, and then turn back south. But not just to find out that the Starks had Winterfell (most of us were surprised she didn't already know) or to say hi to Nymeria.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Aug 4, 2017 23:59:47 GMT
It was silly to think that Highgarden wouldn't inform their most powerful houses of their intent. This is especially the case if the Tarly's were an actual threat. They certainly wouldn't want them dangling around. The Baratheon & Tyrell forces numbered 100,000 during the battle of the 5 kings with the Tyrell forces making up a significant portion. Currently in the show the army of the Vale is healthiest and highest in number. Martin has said that in the books, traditionally the Reach has highest numbers but Lannisters are almost equal in strength but richer.. Martin indicates the numbers to be around: Highgarden - 40,000 Lannisters - 35,000 North - 18,000 Vale - 18,000 Dorne - 18,000 Riverland - No numbers provided Stormland -No numbers provided Dragonstone - Smallest army He says Dragonstone is the least powerful and Riverland have divided leadership and lack of natural boundaries. If you're talking about TV show, fine, but the book numbers are higher.
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Post by Chalice_Of_Evil on Jan 4, 2018 8:32:15 GMT
**spoilers below for episode 3 of Season 7 ‘The Queen’s Justice’ if you haven’t watched it** Well, after six seasons of build-up to Dany and Jon meeting, I was a little surprised that they injected some humour into the meeting, but it totally worked with the introductions of both characters. The looks between Davos and Jon really said it all. Poor Jon. And good job, Davos, almost revealing too much. I’m glad Daenerys caught that and wondered about it later. Despite their first scene together being a rather lengthy ‘talky’ scene, I really enjoyed it and thought Emilia Clarke was especially good in delivering her speech (though all the actors worked well in the scene). I really like all these characters at Dragonstone interacting. They’re currently my favourite scenes, I think. I know a lot of people give Dany a hard time, but after everything she went through to get where she is now, and all her past experiences with other people, I can’t say I blame her for being wary. She’s tough, and some people call that ‘bitchiness’. She might seem ‘ruthless’, but showing any form of ‘weakness’ in this world seems to get you killed, so I understand her attitude. I also understood Jon’s too. I liked that they butted heads, but weren’t nasty to each other. I’m glad Dany allowed him to mine for Dragonglass. The other really good part of the episode was Cersei finally getting her revenge against Ellaria for killing Myrcella (who was an innocent – despite Ellaria’s claim that there “Are no innocent Lannisters”. Cersei might be guilty of a whole lot of bad stuff, but killing her daughter is entirely on Ellaria. She blames Cersei (and Tyrion) for Oberyn’s death, but the fact is he died because he was obsessed with getting a confession out of the Mountain and got cocky, therefore making the stupid mistake of being to close to his opponent – and that’s what got him killed. Ellaria blamed everyone else for Oberyn’s death but Oberyn himself, deciding to take revenge against Cersei via her innocent daughter who had nothing to do with any of it. That was a choice that she made, and it’s on nobody else but her, as are the consequences of her actions. I’m glad Cersei called her out on it/said as much. No, I didn’t take pleasure in what Cersei did to Ellaria’s remaining daughter, Tyene (she was the only one of the three Sand Snakes that I sort of liked), but I did find her speech to Ellaria pretty satisfying. I only wish she’d taken out Ellaria instead, as I’m really not a fan of her. I realise I’m probably in the minority with this opinion, but another character I can’t stand is Euron. Of course Olenna would make sure her death was going to be painless before she decided to rub in Jaime’s face that fact that she was the one behind Joffrey’s death. I’m, not sure whether he’d want to relay her final message to Cersei (she probably wouldn’t be too happy after hearing it). Anyway, it’s just so satisfying to have Dany and Jon together at long last, since they’re two of my favourite characters.
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