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Post by novastar6 on Jul 31, 2017 1:00:51 GMT
A group of people get invited to a party, or whatever excuse, out to a house in the middle of nowhere where they are killed off one by one for whatever reason.
I found the book The Invisible Host, kind of a rare find, which the 1930s movie The Ninth Guest was made from, very good I thought, and it is so well written, it almost feels like it could be a modern story, the technological differences notwithstanding. But what are some other books that would fit this genre?
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Post by Nalkarj on Jul 31, 2017 2:27:01 GMT
novastar6 I've never read the book, but The Ninth Guest is a fun little b-movie. Apparently, Christie never read/saw either book or movie, but ATTWN/ Ten Little Indians is unbelievably close to it. Others? An interesting question, especially as I've been trying to work out alternate solutions to the puzzle AC sets forth in it. Here are the few that come to mind (both books and movies): Anthony Berkeley, Panic Party ('34): Very close to AC's set-up, both in plot and character development, but with a disappointing ending. John Dickson Carr, The Unicorn Murders ('35): A brilliant alternate solution to the problem--indeed, a great surprise villain, taking everything in a different direction compared to what Christie would later do. One of my favorite Carrs. Anthony Horowitz, "I Know What You Did Last Wednesday" (2004): Horowitz's main trick is similar to Carr's, but incorporated better in a straight ATTWN format (after all, it is a parody). Good fun. Ellery Queen, The House of Brass ('68): EQ had actually planned an ATTWN-like plot, but AC got to it first. This is a later attempt (apparently ghostwritten by Avram Davidson, but plotted by Frederic Dannay and with considerable input from Manfred Lee): the plot isn't all that great, but the set-up is very similar to Christie's. Edwin L. Marin and Robert Florey, A Study in Scarlet ('33): Only on this list because the killings actually go according to the "Ten Little Indians" nursery rhyme. Otherwise not comparable to the book Fred Walton and Danilo Bach, April Fool's Day ('86): A clever plot, especially for a "slasher," but the final twists are a bit too much. Roy William Neill and Roy Chanslor, The House of Fear ('45): The most ingenious--on a pure plotting level--of the Basil Rathbone-NIgel Bruce Holmes films, with a plot that borrows from Christie but does something new with the twist. Also, there are genuine clues, the best of which Bruce's Watson gets to deduce! Ngaio Marsh, Death and the Dancing Footman ('42): Apparently similar to ATTWN, but I haven't yet read it... Hope that helps!
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Post by theravenking on Jul 31, 2017 18:18:54 GMT
I've recommended this one already on several other sites, but I believe The Frankenstein Factory by Edward D. Hoch is one of the best homages to the Christie novel.
Here are some others which I think are less succesful, but you might enjoy them nonetheless:
The Riddle Of Sphinx Island by R. T. Raichev
Nine Man's Murder by Eric Keith
Fire Will Freeze by Margaret Millar
Bertie And The Seven Bodies by Peter Lovesey
The recent thriller The Dying Game by Asa Avdic is advertised as being similar to And Then There Were None, but I haven't read it yet.
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Post by Nalkarj on Jul 31, 2017 19:55:57 GMT
theravenking Ah, yes, you recommended The Frankenstein Factory to me here as well; I'll have to find it somewhere... I've been interested in Nine Man's Murder for a long time, mostly because I too have been thinking out an alternate solution to AC's set-up (as I noted before), and apparently Keith does something novel with it. Puzzle Doctor really liked it, but I think JJ (or maybe TomCat? Or Patrick?) wasn't as fond of it. I'm looking through their old reviews now... Let's see: Patrick really liked it as well. Ah, I guess it was TomCat who didn't like it as much. I'll definitely take a look at it when I can. I've never heard of The Riddle of Sphinx Island (swell title, though!), but I'm interested in Millar's and Lovesey's books, which I didn't know were inspired by ATTWN. (Millar is one of my favorite writers, whatever the genre.) novastar6 I just remembered that Patrick Ohl recommended Jacquemard-Sénécal's The Eleventh Little Indian, which was apparently translated into English several years back. I've never read it, and if anyone can find a copy, please let me know!
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Post by Nalkarj on Jul 31, 2017 20:36:37 GMT
novastar6 I see a book called The Ex, by Nicholas Sanders, is also supposedly inspired by ATTWN, but it apparently lacks fair play clues for deducing the killer. Again, another one I've never read.
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Post by theravenking on Aug 1, 2017 11:10:13 GMT
theravenking Ah, yes, you recommended The Frankenstein Factory to me here as well; I'll have to find it somewhere... I've been interested in Nine Man's Murder for a long time, mostly because I too have been thinking out an alternate solution to AC's set-up (as I noted before), and apparently Keith does something novel with it. Puzzle Doctor really liked it, but I think JJ (or maybe TomCat? Or Patrick?) wasn't as fond of it. I'm looking through their old reviews now... Let's see: Patrick really liked it as well. Ah, I guess it was TomCat who didn't like it as much. I'll definitely take a look at it when I can. I've never heard of The Riddle of Sphinx Island (swell title, though!), but I'm interested in Millar's and Lovesey's books, which I didn't know were inspired by ATTN. (Millar is one of my favorite writers, whatever the genre.) My main issue with Nine Man's Murder was that the characters already knew each other having all been members of the same detective academy, which to me just diminishes the impact of the story. The Riddle of Sphinx Island is a weird one. I first assumed that it was set in the Golden Age time period of the 1920s or 30s, yet it turned out the plot was taking place in the 21st century, yet all of the characters act and talk like in a Golden Age mystery which seemed very idiosyncratic and did not quite work for me.
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Post by Nalkarj on Aug 2, 2017 2:05:35 GMT
Thanks, theravenking. I recently ordered Nine Man's Murder via interlibrary loan, and I'll let you know my thoughts when I read it. novastar6, a "blogfriend" of mine, JJ from " The Invisible Event," listed a few more: Ten (Gretchen McNei), Stableford on Golf (Rob Reef), and The Hummingbird Saint (Hector Macdonald). Of these, just to let you know, Ten seems bloody awful from what I've read about it.
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Post by theravenking on Aug 2, 2017 9:13:15 GMT
I came across these two books by browsing on Amazon, I don't know whether they are any good, but they seem very similar to ATTWN:
Ten Dead Comedians by Fred Van Lente
Countdown To Death by Ian McChesney
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Post by Nalkarj on Aug 3, 2017 0:28:13 GMT
Thanks, theravenking. On Amazon, Ten Dead Comedians has several bad reviews from readers, but Countdown to Death looks fairly decent. Another one: Herbert Brean's The Clock Strikes Thirteen (1954).
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Post by novastar6 on Aug 4, 2017 16:51:23 GMT
novastar6 Others? An interesting question, especially as I've been trying to work out alternate solutions to the puzzle AC sets forth in it. Here are the few that come to mind (both books and movies): Anthony Berkeley, Panic Party ('34): Very close to AC's set-up, both in plot and character development, but with a disappointing ending. Panic Party seems to be out, I checked Amazon and eBay and either nobody has it or it's $80.
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Post by theravenking on Aug 4, 2017 18:25:42 GMT
novastar6 Others? An interesting question, especially as I've been trying to work out alternate solutions to the puzzle AC sets forth in it. Here are the few that come to mind (both books and movies): Anthony Berkeley, Panic Party ('34): Very close to AC's set-up, both in plot and character development, but with a disappointing ending. Panic Party seems to be out, I checked Amazon and eBay and either nobody has it or it's $80. I wonder why this hasn't been republished yet. Several of Berkeley's books have come out in new editions recently.
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Post by theravenking on Aug 4, 2017 18:27:51 GMT
Well, I just finished reading The Dying Game by Asa Avdic (it's a very short book, so you can read it in a few hours), and I would say the comparisons to ATTWN weren't very accurate, it's more of a political thriller than a classic whodunit. Disappointing.
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Post by Nalkarj on Aug 4, 2017 18:50:46 GMT
novastar6 Others? An interesting question, especially as I've been trying to work out alternate solutions to the puzzle AC sets forth in it. Here are the few that come to mind (both books and movies): Anthony Berkeley, Panic Party ('34): Very close to AC's set-up, both in plot and character development, but with a disappointing ending. Panic Party seems to be out, I checked Amazon and eBay and either nobody has it or it's $80. Library?
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Post by novastar6 on Aug 4, 2017 20:51:08 GMT
Panic Party seems to be out, I checked Amazon and eBay and either nobody has it or it's $80. Library? I tried that too, ours doesn't have it, and I had a librarian who handles inter-library loans check, nobody in the state seems to have it.
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Post by Nalkarj on Aug 4, 2017 21:46:41 GMT
novastar6 Too bad, though it's not the greatest loss in the world--it's not one of Berkeley's stronger books. Take a look (if you get a chance) at Anthony Horowitz's "I Know What You Did Last Wednesday." I'm sure a library is more likely to have that (mine does), and it's a small delight. ETA: If not, OpenLibrary has a copy of the Horowitz story, in the collection Three of Diamonds.
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Post by Nalkarj on Aug 5, 2017 1:19:27 GMT
theravenkingI just finished Nine Man's Murder a moment ago, and--to cut to the chase--I didn't like it. At all. To be honest, I think I'll probably forget it as of tomorrow. Mr. Keith cannot write, plain and simple. Nor can he plot, in the sense that he can create a story that keeps one reading on. He can formulate puzzle plots, which are necessary ipso facto for detective stories, but without anything to keep me reading on, I find that it has all the interest of the coldest logic puzzle you can conceive. Suspense, humor, human emotion, clever writing--all missing. It's this kind of book, to be honest, that gave detective stories a bad name. This is the same flaw I see regarding Paul Halter, but Halter seems like the greatest writer on God's green earth compared to Keith. (And that is something I thought I'd never, ever, say!) The characterization is non-existent, the plotting is flawed, the writing is cold and colorless and synoptical... The plot. Ah, yes, the puzzle-plot, that sine qua non of detective stories. John Dickson Carr formulated the central twist in 1935. Anthony Horowitz invented a creative variant of Carr's trick in 2004. Keith stole Horowitz's variant and combined it with Christie's main trick from And Then There Were None. There was some clever locked-room stuff, but nothing that held my interest out of idle curiosity. As I noted above, despite the unoriginality of the central twist, Keith can create puzzle-plots. The chain of cluing here is good, if (again) dull to read. If Keith desires to go on writing detective stories, he should invest in a collaborator who can do the writing whilst he does the plotting. It would be an improvement for all involved. Ugh. This is one of the worst detective stories I've read in a long time. Anything else in the field, even the unbearable Crofts, is better than this. 2/10--D?
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Post by Nalkarj on Aug 5, 2017 21:40:29 GMT
novastar6 and theravenkingAnother one: The Decagon House Murders (1987), by Japanese novelist Yukito Ayatsuji. John Pugmire has recently translated this one.
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Post by theravenking on Aug 6, 2017 17:52:52 GMT
theravenking I just finished Nine Man's Murder a moment ago, and--to cut to the chase--I didn't like it. At all. To be honest, I think I'll probably forget it as of tomorrow. Mr. Keith cannot write, plain and simple. Nor can he plot, in the sense that he can create a story that keeps one reading on. He can formulate puzzle plots, which are necessary ipso facto for detective stories, but without anything to keep me reading on, I find that it has all the interest of the coldest logic puzzle you can conceive. Suspense, humor, human emotion, clever writing--all missing. It's this kind of book, to be honest, that gave detective stories a bad name. This is the same flaw I see regarding Paul Halter, but Halter seems like the greatest writer on God's green earth compared to Keith. (And that is something I thought I'd never, ever, say!) The characterization is non-existent, the plotting is flawed, the writing is cold and colorless and synoptical... The plot. Ah, yes, the puzzle-plot, that sine qua non of detective stories. John Dickson Carr formulated the central twist in 1935. Anthony Horowitz invented a creative variant of Carr's trick in 2004. Keith stole Horowitz's variant and combined it with Christie's main trick from And Then There Were None. There was some clever locked-room stuff, but nothing that held my interest out of idle curiosity. As I noted above, despite the unoriginality of the central twist, Keith can create puzzle-plots. The chain of cluing here is good, if (again) dull to read. If Keith desires to go on writing detective stories, he should invest in a collaborator who can do the writing whilst he does the plotting. It would be an improvement for all involved. Ugh. This is one of the worst detective stories I've read in a long time. Anything else in the field, even the unbearable Crofts, is better than this. 2/10--D? I know exactly what you mean. I'm not a big fan of Mr. Keith's writing style either. I agree that the book is forgettable, nonetheless some people in the blogosphere seem to like it. I've only read two Halter novels, both in French and couldn't find anything wrong with the writing, perhaps it's just the translation. Personally I don't think Crofts is that bad, I really enjoyed The Cask and Antidote To Venom had some interesting elements. I would say the worst written mystery novel I've recently read must have been The Santa Klaus Murder by Mavis Doriel Hay - so painfully dull, I had to give up after a few chapters.
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Post by Nalkarj on Aug 8, 2017 3:40:05 GMT
novastar6Two more for the list: The Invisible Circle (Paul Halter) and "Snow White, Blood Red" (from the TV series Murder, She Wrote).
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Post by Nalkarj on Aug 14, 2017 13:46:11 GMT
novastar6 and theravenkingA few more movies for the list: Horror Island ('41), Night Monster ('42), and Dead Men Tell ('41).
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