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Post by thisguy4000 on Feb 27, 2017 4:50:03 GMT
Then why do superhero film have such an infamous history of bad films when it comes to minorities and women leads? Getting it right is obviously harder than it looks. In any case, regardless of which company has or less diversity, Marvel is kicking DC's ass left, right, and center and will continue to do so. Whereas the DCEU has a steep uphill climb to rid itself of the original franchise sins its committed with a morose, unlikable Superman, a murderous, unlikable Batman, and a joke of a Suicide Squad. What are you talking about? The problem with those films had nothing to do with starring women and minorities.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2017 4:53:29 GMT
I know. The problem was the incompetence of the filmmakers. Still doesn't change the fact that superhero films have a history of handling female leads and the subject matter of minorities poorly. That's why just having more diversity counts for nothing. Wonder Woman has to be good first before it becomes a bragging point.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Feb 27, 2017 5:01:27 GMT
Again, a bad film doesn't necessarily do disservice to minorities just because there were minorities in that particular film. The problems with those films weren't about how they depicted minorities.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2017 5:06:59 GMT
Oh, then how come it's taken so long for these companies to get around to even trying to make films like The Black Panther? Because films like Steel failed in the past. Why are there so few superheroine films? Because films like Supgirl, Elekra, and Catwoman failed. If that isn't setting their presence in this genre back, I don't know what is. So at the end of the day, just having more or less diversity counts for nothing.
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Post by Agent of Chaos on Feb 27, 2017 5:12:04 GMT
I wonder...are the staff here less tolerate of trolls than IMBD?
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Post by thisguy4000 on Feb 27, 2017 5:30:09 GMT
Oh, then how come it's taken so long for these companies to get around to even trying to make films like The Black Panther? Because films like Steel failed in the past. Why are there so few superheroine films? Because films like Supgirl, Elekra, and Catwoman failed. If that isn't setting their presence in this genre back, I don't know what is. So at the end of the day, just having more or less diversity counts for nothing. Part of that also has to do with the fact that the most bankable actors in Hollywood are still white leading men, and to a lesser degree, white women. Also, Ike Perlmutter is a Trump supporter, so I'd imagine that he probably wasn't too crazy about the idea of making a Black Panther or Captain Marve movie.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2017 5:54:42 GMT
...Seriously? You're taking it there? Goodbye. I'm done with you.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Feb 27, 2017 6:00:56 GMT
...Seriously? You're taking it there? Goodbye. I'm done with you. i wasn't trying to make a political statement there (even though I should've realized that you can't mention Trump without being political), I was mentioning something that I had already heard. Perlmutter allegedly was the reason that Marvel never released any toys for characters like Black Widow in the past, so it wouldn't surprise me if he was holding them back on the whole diversity thing. Perhaps I shouldn't have mentioned Trump, but oh well. Just for the record, I wasn't mentioning that in order to bash Marvel. But hey, if you're "done with me" so be it. You come off as an elitist prick anyw
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2017 6:07:24 GMT
...Nick Fury's black in the MCU, in case you didn't notice and Rhody and Falcon are two of the their major reoccurring characters. I'd say they actually introduced Black Panther about as soon as they could have given that he's from a highly reclusive country and they've introduced Luke Fury on Netflix. I'm highly dubious of this claim Perlmutter.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Feb 27, 2017 6:14:28 GMT
I thought you said you were done with me?
Also, Nick Fury being black is great and all...except that he's always been a supporting character in the MCU . He wasn't even technically part of the Avengers, who were all white people in the first movie.
Since you probably misinterpreted my comment about Perlmutter, let me make this clear to you; I'm not saying that Marvel is some kind of racist company who is against diversity. All I was saying was that for a while, the MCU was pretty lacking in that department. That doesn't mean that they didn't have the occasional black actor in a supporting role, but their movies were still predominately white, and I'd imagine that Ike Perlmutter had something to do with that. He's known for being a rather Conservative and old-fashioned man, just like many other CEOs.
He was demoted a long time ago though, so his influence seems to be almost nonexistent by this point.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2017 6:22:40 GMT
Fury's the boss man in charge of things and the single most reasonable authority figure in the entire MCU. Supporting character or not, he's very important.
Their movies were predominantly white because the heroes they had to start with are white. Since they didn't have The Fantastic Four, the X-Men, or Spider-Man, or even Daredevil when they started, Ironman, Captain America, Thor, and The Hulk were the most well-known characters at their disposal. As for Black Widow and Hawkeye, well, their inclusive just made the most sense since they were using SHIELD to bring the team together. Since they've become more established, they've branched out and started to give characters like Luke Fury a chance to shine. Not ideal, but there it is.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Feb 27, 2017 6:29:04 GMT
I never said that Fury wasn't an important character, but he still sat on the sidelines generally. Him being in a role that just so happens to be authoritative is certainly a bone to throw, but not a particularly big one if he doesn't do much beyond giving pep talks and showing up in a couple of post-credit scenes. And no, I'm not trying to bash the MCU as racist propaganda(because I know it isn't), I'm just pointing out that it took them a while to truly begin tackling diversity, which I believed was something the DCEU did at least have over it.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2017 6:35:23 GMT
He's done a lot more than pep talks and post-credit scenes. He's the man who moves in the background and has plans upon plans. He knows how to gather Intel and how to move the pieces on the board the way they need to be moved. There is much, much more to winning a battle or war than hitting the other guy until he stops moving.
And I believe I've pointed out a valid reason why it took a little bit. And apart from Wonder Woman, I really have no idea how the DCEU is more diverse.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Feb 27, 2017 6:55:13 GMT
In terms of marketability and recognizability, he wasn't a prominent character. Hell, he was practically the only non-white person that had any kind of notable role in the first Avengers movie, and he was credited as a supporting role.
Also, I've already mentioned SS having a pretty diverse cast, as well as the fact that the traditionally blonde-haired and blue-eyed Aquaman is now played by an actor of Polynesian descen, and his movie is set to start filming in May.
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Post by havenless on Feb 27, 2017 13:49:04 GMT
I wonder if they'll change their movie structures and tones to be more like Suicide Squad now. It does have an Oscar up over anything else they've done.
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Post by MooseNugget on Feb 27, 2017 14:43:37 GMT
The debate here sucks and is boring.
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Post by formersamhmd on Feb 27, 2017 14:51:08 GMT
I wonder if they'll change their movie structures and tones to be more like Suicide Squad now. It does have an Oscar up over anything else they've done. Yeah, an Oscar for makeup and stuff. The emulation will be "Let's have lots of monstrous villains!"
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Post by Skaathar on Feb 27, 2017 18:14:01 GMT
Wow! The DCEU has already outgrossed MCU's first 3 films and now it already had an Oscar under its belt! poor MCU... I get the feeling that if DCEU had a choice, they'd much prefer to have MCU-level critical reception rather than their 1 Oscar win.
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Post by King Conan on Feb 27, 2017 18:29:52 GMT
Wow! The DCEU has already outgrossed MCU's first 3 films and now it already had an Oscar under its belt! poor MCU... I get the feeling that if DCEU had a choice, they'd much prefer to have MCU-level critical reception rather than their 1 Oscar win. Poor MCU? Hahaha! Not really. Their movies are still more loved by the audiences, and makes big amount of money. And for SSQ, winning an Oscar in one of the lowest categories, is not impressed and kinda lame. Come back, if an DCEU movie is able to win a n Oscar in one of the five main categories.
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Post by ThatGuy on Feb 27, 2017 18:33:32 GMT
What are you talking about? The problem with those films had nothing to do with starring women and minorities. A lot of the times it is. Look at movies like Steel. That should have been Iron Man before Iron Man. They gave it a crap budget to capitalize on Shaq's popularity, not to actually make a Steel movie. Female led superhero movies are either about them fighting over a guy or feminine products. Hopefully Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel are superhero movies that just happens to have a female lead. Not a movies about women that happens to be a superheroes.
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