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Post by Aj_June on Aug 22, 2018 10:54:47 GMT
Sometimes there is information gap and we usually develop perspectives based on some of our personal biases. It has happened to me in a lot of things and there might still be a number of things in which I may be biased but I may not feel so. Is there any way to discover our own biases? Remember that we usually interact more with people who are like minded and trust their judgements more than we trust judgements of people that we don't know. But the thing is that the people we depend on may carry similar biases that we carry. So I am not sure the method of depending on people we deem non-biased to remove our biases always works. My opinion: We are all biased. Humans can't be objective. Therefore, it is futile to pretend to be unbiased, and also futile to try to be unbiased. All you can do is listen to different narratives and see how you reconcile them with your version of reality. And the result will be biased as well. Whenever someone pretends to be objective, or have facts or reality on their side, I know I don't have to take them too seriously. Thanks, PHE_DE. As always a good post. One of your recent posts to me in another thread has given me a food for thought.
While I won't address that post I have a question regarding another situation. Should we always judge human beings similarly for similar views or cut some slack to certain people. Suppose two people exhibit transphobia and one of them is heterosexual and another is homosexual. Should we feel a little more empathetic towards the homosexual person because the person who is homosexual may have gone through worse experiences and is more defensive towards his own group?
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Post by phludowin on Aug 22, 2018 18:34:30 GMT
Should we always judge human beings similarly for similar views or cut some slack to certain people. Suppose two people exhibit transphobia and one of them is heterosexual and another is homosexual. Should we feel a little more empathetic towards the homosexual person because the person who is homosexual may have gone through worse experiences and is more defensive towards his own group? I think in this case we need to look from two angles: The perpetrator, and the victim. I tend to be consequentialist when it comes to ethics. Meaning: It's not the intention that determines whether an action is good or bad; it's the outcome. Meaning: In this cases I look at the victim. A transsexual won't care about the sexual orientation of the harasser, if the harassments from the homosexual and from the heterosexual are identical. Just like a shop owner won't care too much if a shoplifter is kleptomaniac and can't help stealing; of if it's just an asshole who wants to save money; or a stupid teenager who wants to impress someone else. In all cases, the shop owner should be compensated equally. Just like the transsexual. So from the victim's point of view, it doesn't matter what the motivation of the perpetrator is. The victims deserve protection from all perpetrators, regardless of their motivation. But when it comes to punishing the perpetrator, then there is such a thing as mitigating circumstances. In the cases I mentioned, I guess the difference between a regular thief and a kleptomaniac is that the former will be locked up in a prison, and the latter in an asylum. And what to do with Tourette patients who yell in concerts? Don't they have a right to live music? Maybe a compromise could be that they agree to be gagged and tied up during the concert. Or sedated. But that's for the concert organizers to decide. Regular assholes who yell during concerts should just be banned from further concerts. But this is just my opinion. And I know that the motivation counts a lot in the legal system. If it didn't, there wouldn't be any lawyers. |
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Post by Morgana on Aug 23, 2018 8:58:37 GMT
Sometimes there is information gap and we usually develop perspectives based on some of our personal biases. It has happened to me in a lot of things and there might still be a number of things in which I may be biased but I may not feel so. Is there any way to discover our own biases? Remember that we usually interact more with people who are like minded and trust their judgements more than we trust judgements of people that we don't know. But the thing is that the people we depend on may carry similar biases that we carry. So I am not sure the method of depending on people we deem non-biased to remove our biases always works. I think it's impossible to not be biased in our opinions and feelings. It's who we are. All we can do is try and not be judgmental toward another persons opinion. |
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Post by Morgana on Aug 23, 2018 9:03:32 GMT
Sometimes there is information gap and we usually develop perspectives based on some of our personal biases. It has happened to me in a lot of things and there might still be a number of things in which I may be biased but I may not feel so. Is there any way to discover our own biases? Remember that we usually interact more with people who are like minded and trust their judgements more than we trust judgements of people that we don't know. But the thing is that the people we depend on may carry similar biases that we carry. So I am not sure the method of depending on people we deem non-biased to remove our biases always works. Don't form a perspective until the information gap is filled? After my cancer was put into remission by advances in medical science, unlike my relatives who died of it, my 'faith' in any god was gone, but replaced by science. Science hasn't answered all the questions yet, but scientists are fairly reliable in stating that fact, and when new information comes to light, it is examined and fills some of the information gap. I was diagnosed in 1989, and my husband encouraged me to choose the harsh protocol of chemo, telling me that even if I had a recurrence, science might have advanced yet again and I would live longer. And, sure enough, I have been seeing ads recently for a new drug that prolongs the quality of life in people whose cancer has become metastatic. I haven't needed that drug yet, but may someday, or something else that hasn't been discovered yet. I know I have put this into medical context and that may not have been what you had in mind, but I think it is a good parallel, withholding perspective (I'm gonna die) until more information is available (but not yet). Isn't that like replacing one God for another? Science isn't the be-all and end-all of everything. I see science as being fallible, because humans are fallible. At least eight people in my close family have died of cancer, including my mother, but science didn't help them, not that I'm blaming 'it'. I still believe in God, and you said you still have hope or 'faith' that advances in science might yet find a cure; isn't that kind of like having faith in God that it will happen one day? |
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Post by Aj_June on Aug 23, 2018 11:33:30 GMT
Sometimes there is information gap and we usually develop perspectives based on some of our personal biases. It has happened to me in a lot of things and there might still be a number of things in which I may be biased but I may not feel so. Is there any way to discover our own biases? Remember that we usually interact more with people who are like minded and trust their judgements more than we trust judgements of people that we don't know. But the thing is that the people we depend on may carry similar biases that we carry. So I am not sure the method of depending on people we deem non-biased to remove our biases always works. I think it's impossible to not be biased in our opinions and feelings. It's who we are. All we can do is try and not be judgmental toward another persons opinion. Good of you to believe in possibility that we may all be biased to some extent, Morgana. Yes, even if we are biased we would make things better by not trying to be too fanatic or too judgemental especially in relation to topics that attract many different points of views. |
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Post by Aj_June on Aug 23, 2018 11:46:25 GMT
Should we always judge human beings similarly for similar views or cut some slack to certain people. Suppose two people exhibit transphobia and one of them is heterosexual and another is homosexual. Should we feel a little more empathetic towards the homosexual person because the person who is homosexual may have gone through worse experiences and is more defensive towards his own group? I think in this case we need to look from two angles: The perpetrator, and the victim. I tend to be consequentialist when it comes to ethics. Meaning: It's not the intention that determines whether an action is good or bad; it's the outcome. Meaning: In this cases I look at the victim. A transsexual won't care about the sexual orientation of the harasser, if the harassments from the homosexual and from the heterosexual are identical. Just like a shop owner won't care too much if a shoplifter is kleptomaniac and can't help stealing; of if it's just an asshole who wants to save money; or a stupid teenager who wants to impress someone else. In all cases, the shop owner should be compensated equally. Just like the transsexual. So from the victim's point of view, it doesn't matter what the motivation of the perpetrator is. The victims deserve protection from all perpetrators, regardless of their motivation. But when it comes to punishing the perpetrator, then there is such a thing as mitigating circumstances. In the cases I mentioned, I guess the difference between a regular thief and a kleptomaniac is that the former will be locked up in a prison, and the latter in an asylum. And what to do with Tourette patients who yell in concerts? Don't they have a right to live music? Maybe a compromise could be that they agree to be gagged and tied up during the concert. Or sedated. But that's for the concert organizers to decide. Regular assholes who yell during concerts should just be banned from further concerts. But this is just my opinion. And I know that the motivation counts a lot in the legal system. If it didn't, there wouldn't be any lawyers. I do not disagree with what you say. That said I do feel a bit difficult to call out a member of minority group in certain cases if they indulge in the same wrong behaviour as a member from non-minority group does. It's not that I do not call a homosexual out for transphobia. It's just that I feel a little guilty to confront them because I believe lifelong experiences of living in a homophobic society may have made the homosexual person more defensive and biased in his or her views. That said I do not expect others to also carry the same guilt as I do. |
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Post by Arlon10 on Aug 23, 2018 12:01:24 GMT
If you want to find the "truth" you are likely to overcome any biases you have. If you want to "win" more than you want to find the truth, your biases could be a problem.
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Post by Aj_June on Aug 23, 2018 12:23:41 GMT
If you want to find the "truth" you are likely to overcome any biases you have. If you want to "win" more than you want to find the truth, your biases could be a problem. While I appreciate your quest to find the truth, I wish it was as simple as you made it look. What if a person conflates the two things you mentioned? The desire to win and quest to seek the truth? May be you are trying to find the truth and I mistake your efforts as merely endeavours to defend the preconceived notions that you have? or vice versa? We don't know about others. Sometimes we even don't know what we want. Especially if we become biased on any issue. In my opinion the best possible thing to do is to continuously question ourselves. Try to see things from different perspectives. Get information from different reputed sources. Try to give thought to different views with a neutral mind. |
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Post by phludowin on Aug 23, 2018 16:20:31 GMT
I do not disagree with what you say. That said I do feel a bit difficult to call out a member of minority group in certain cases if they indulge in the same wrong behaviour as a member from non-minority group does. It's not that I do not call a homosexual out for transphobia. It's just that I feel a little guilty to confront them because I believe lifelong experiences of living in a homophobic society may have made the homosexual person more defensive and biased in his or her views. That said I do not expect others to also carry the same guilt as I do. You are not alone. When acts of misogynia happen, then some people are more reluctant to call them out if they happen within communities that are not considered priviledged; like Muslim or African-American communities. However, sexists shouldn't get a free pass just because they are being discriminated against too. Problem: Often, sexism is considered a lesser evil than racism. In the 68 movement in Germany, the word "Nebenwiderspruch" was often used against women. Meaning: "Your discrimination is secondary. Discrimination because of class is more relevant." Any unfair discrimination should be fought; but being discriminated against does not justify if you discriminate against someone else. |
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