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Post by marlonbrawndo on Feb 27, 2017 22:06:37 GMT
I cited Game of Thrones in a thread discussing a different matter, and one person replied that the series was nothing but soft-core porn.
I responded that I thought there was much more to the show.
I was struck by the fact that the person who commented didn't seem at all bothered by the copious violence shown on GoT, which I wouldn't miss if it were reduced, especially in the very lengthy battle scenes.
My question: Are you bothered by depictions of sex, violence, both, or neither?
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Post by THawk on Feb 28, 2017 1:52:07 GMT
Of FFS. It's about whether sex or violence are used to supplement the story, or whether they are the whole focus and attraction of the project.
OZ is one of my favorite shows of all time. It had more graphic nudity than GoT, and as much violence as you could put on a show of its nature. Guess what? Those elements were not the actual focus of the show, it was the characters and the stories.
GoT, on the other hand, has 5 minute-long lesbian sex scenes that serve absolutely no purpose in any way shape or form but to make teenagers horny. And yes, its violence is ridiculous as well. There is no purpose in the bluest of blue hells served by watching an animal get skinned alive for 5 minutes. Nothing. And all the storytelling on the show, all the plotlines pretty much come down to "let's find new shocking ways in which character A can backstab character B in the back." That's it. It's empty and shallow.
OZ is an example of highly mature entertainment that at the end has a strong purpose, a moral, a driving narrative.
GoT is just "entertainment." The same way soft-core porn, horror gore, all those "boom headshot" shooter games are. Which would be no problem if it was recognized for what it is. But what is twisted and disgusting is that GoT is praised as actual quality storytelling, which then pollutes and muddies the whole field.
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Post by thebayharborbutcher on Feb 28, 2017 3:05:00 GMT
Personally excessive sex or violence doesn't bother me. It tends to work better when it serves the story though.
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barkingbaphomet
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Post by barkingbaphomet on Feb 28, 2017 3:07:06 GMT
can't i have both?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2017 4:44:01 GMT
I'm bothered by non-realism.
there's no sex in your violence -bush
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Post by marlonbrawndo on Feb 28, 2017 5:58:59 GMT
OZ is one of my favorite shows of all time. It had more graphic nudity than GoT, and as much violence as you could put on a show of its nature. Guess what? Those elements were not the actual focus of the show, it was the characters and the stories.
GoT, on the other hand, has 5 minute-long lesbian sex scenes that serve absolutely no purpose in any way shape or form but to make teenagers horny. And yes, its violence is ridiculous as well. There is no purpose in the bluest of blue hells served by watching an animal get skinned alive for 5 minutes. Nothing. And all the storytelling on the show, all the plotlines pretty much come down to "let's find new shocking ways in which character A can backstab character B in the back." That's it. It's empty and shallow.
OZ is an example of highly mature entertainment that at the end has a strong purpose, a moral, a driving narrative.THawk I had assumed, based on your evident revulsion at the Game of Thrones series, that you would not have endured viewing much of it. This latest comment seems to suggest that you're watched more than a little of it, and are familiar with events depicted in it. I've watched the series twice now, and have to admit that I still can't quote it chapter and verse. Could you help me by specifying when the 5-minute long lesbian scenes happened, and which characters were involved? I can only recall when two of Baelish's staff were being coached by him in how to feign ecstasy for their tricks. I thought it was more humorous than erotic. The only other liason between women I recall was Dorne's Ellaria being shown briefly in bed, but certainly nothing graphic or prolonged. Refresh my memory of the scenes you're referencing, please. I never got into OZ. Maybe I'm missing something. What was its purpose, moral, and driving narrative which made you a fan? I'm always eager to find something good to watch. Thanks!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2017 8:50:15 GMT
People generally exaterate the amount of sex\nudity and violence in movies and shows. There are never close to as much as people claim. Game of Thrones is a perfect example of that.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2017 12:53:04 GMT
My question: Are you bothered by depictions of sex, violence, both, or neither? Neither, if they're appropriate. GoT uses sex and violence for viewer titillation, but they also use them for establishing things about the GoT world. The ease with which people resort to violence to solve their problems and the casual manner in which many treat sexuality in that world tells us about the kind of world it is.
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Post by THawk on Feb 28, 2017 13:23:19 GMT
My question: Are you bothered by depictions of sex, violence, both, or neither? Neither, if they're appropriate. GoT uses sex and violence for viewer titillation, but they also use them for establishing things about the GoT world. The ease with which people resort to violence to solve their problems and the casual manner in which many treat sexuality in that world tells us about the kind of world it is. Disagree strongly with that. Every single fictional world in movies or tv shows has sex and violence as part of the seen or unseen story - the question is should you, and how do you, depict that. The Lion King could have shown us 20 minutes of lions raping each other and blasting into females from behind, and 20 minutes of Mufasa's organs being destroyed in the stampede, and guess what - it still would have been the same story, as that's how lions are born and that's what happens when you are crushed to death. It would have been "part of its world." But thankfully they did not show us that, because the primary audience was not lion cubs looking to masturbate. So no, GoT's decisions can not be excused with "world building."
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2017 13:34:08 GMT
The fact that other shows don't depict sex really isn't relevant. If you choose not to depict something in your show, then the assumption is that it works much the same as it does in our world. If Lion King had been about actual Lions then yeah, we would have assumed the scenario you describe. In reality it's about anthropomorphized Lions with romance included, so the assumption is that their sex lives work about like ours do.
It's no different with GoT. They use sex and violence to tell us that life is cheap in this world, and that you can pretty much get away with anything so long as you have the physical or political power to back it up. Hell, the show itself even has characters make those exact points explicitly to one another.
You may not like it, but that remains the fact whether you like it or not.
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Post by kuatorises on Feb 28, 2017 15:15:19 GMT
I thought I would love that show, but was extremely disappointed with the first season and haven't watched much since. I didn't find much substance there are all. Without the sex and violence, that show would not be popular. People who don't like fantasy watch that show – because of the sex and violence. Take it away and the show wouldn't be popular. this summarizes my feelings on the show almost perfectly:
"GoT, on the other hand, has 5 minute-long lesbian sex scenes that serve absolutely no purpose in any way shape or form but to make teenagers horny. And yes, its violence is ridiculous as well. There is no purpose in the bluest of blue hells served by watching an animal get skinned alive for 5 minutes. Nothing. And all the storytelling on the show, all the plotlines pretty much come down to "let's find new shocking ways in which character A can backstab character B in the back." That's it. It's empty and shallow."
Neither one bothers me in and of itself, but I do have limits. I love a good horror movie, but excessive gore and sexual stuff is a turnoff. I don't know why people enjoy watching that.
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Post by lockardthegoat on Feb 28, 2017 15:45:03 GMT
We're accustomed to seeing violence more since it's typically more essential to a movie's plot than sex is, plus we as humans as a whole find violence to be interesting or 'fun' on a consciousness/unconscious level... Like, there's something really fascinating about movie violence on a subliminal level, even if it's the type of violence that disturbs us. Whereas sexual matters are a private thing and people have a tendency to get embarassed watching it happen on-screen, especially in a room full of other people.
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Post by marlonbrawndo on Feb 28, 2017 16:09:32 GMT
kuatorisesYou said: "I thought I would love that show, but was extremely disappointed with the first season and haven't watched much since. I didn't find much substance there are all. Without the sex and violence, that show would not be popular. People who don't like fantasy watch that show – because of the sex and violence. Take it away and the show wouldn't be popular."Fair enough. I give credit to folks like you who watch a substantial amount of a series before commenting on it. You checked it out, and felt it was not for you. I respectfully disagree that the show has no substance beyond the sex and violence, though. If you're interested in my opinion, you can read it in my reply to another respondent upthread, I won't bloat this thread by repeating it. I will agree with you that viewership would drop off if the sex and violence were reduced or eliminated. There are doubtless fans who watch the show because of that. That said, I feel there's much of value in the less lurid content, an intelligent commentary on important issues like power, greed, war, gender inequality, class, and more. Regardless, I always enjoy hearing differing opinions, if they're respectfully stated and well-written. Thanks.
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Post by kuatorises on Feb 28, 2017 19:49:12 GMT
kuatorises You said: "I thought I would love that show, but was extremely disappointed with the first season and haven't watched much since. I didn't find much substance there are all. Without the sex and violence, that show would not be popular. People who don't like fantasy watch that show – because of the sex and violence. Take it away and the show wouldn't be popular."Fair enough. I give credit to folks like you who watch a substantial amount of a series before commenting on it. You checked it out, and felt it was not for you. I respectfully disagree that the show has no substance beyond the sex and violence, though. If you're interested in my opinion, you can read it in my reply to another respondent upthread, I won't bloat this thread by repeating it. I will agree with you that viewership would drop off if the sex and violence were reduced or eliminated. There are doubtless fans who watch the show because of that. That said, I feel there's much of value in the less lurid content, an intelligent commentary on important issues like power, greed, war, gender inequality, class, and more. Regardless, I always enjoy hearing differing opinions, if they're respectfully stated and well-written. Thanks. I finished season one and I kid you not a couple of days later HBO was rerunning the "Shame!" episode – and at that exact scene no less. I felt as if everything that I didn't like about it that contributed to what I see as little substance was just reinforced. I actually had to laugh, because that was the first I had seen of the show since. I know that it's about politics and whatnot. Everything has to have a plot. When I say that I find it lacks substance, I don't mean that it's not about anything, just those other things are more of a focal point than the actual plot itself. I understand what it's about, but I don't consider it an intelligent or thought-provoking show in the slightest. I think that it is popular for the same reasons The Walking Dead is popular – a healthy chunk of each shows audience is simply shocked. Both of the shows I tracked more than fantasy and horror fans. People haven't seen anything like either one of these and that – and not quality – is why a lot of them watch IMO. Nce talking to you too!
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sariz
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Post by sariz on Feb 28, 2017 22:32:52 GMT
Im less bothered by sex, actually it doesn't bother me at all. The only problem is that when its 5/10 scenes it makes you wonder The porpouse of the series or film if they really want to make a story or is it just an excuse for an erotic mainstream movie or series.
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Post by marlonbrawndo on Mar 1, 2017 2:44:46 GMT
kuatorises
You said: "I finished season one and I kid you not a couple of days later HBO was rerunning the "Shame!" episode – and at that exact scene no less. I felt as if everything that I didn't like about it that contributed to what I see as little substance was just reinforced. I actually had to laugh, because that was the first I had seen of the show since."
I just had to tell you, I laughed out loud at that. I think in the entire run of the series, that's only time the Cersei character was nude, or even topless. She's even been clothed in her love scenes. If you had the impression that the series was all about sex and nudity, THAT extended scene definitely would have confirmed it. I'm really not here to change anyone's mind, but if I were, that episode would certainly have kneecapped my argument.
You do express your opinions well. I'd be interested in knowing what films or TV shows you do like.
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DarkManX
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Post by DarkManX on Mar 1, 2017 4:17:34 GMT
I am not bothered by sex or violence.
As for Game of Thrones, it's filled with tons of sex and violence now because the writers don't care what the show looks like anymore and are just collecting paychecks.
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Post by fangirl1975 on Mar 1, 2017 20:38:14 GMT
Both bother me in excess.
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Post by marlonbrawndo on Mar 1, 2017 23:53:00 GMT
Feologild Oakes You Said: People generally exaterate the amount of sex\nudity and violence in movies and shows. There are never close to as much as people claim. Game of Thrones is a perfect example of that.Absolutely true.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2017 23:54:56 GMT
I cited Game of Thrones in a thread discussing a different matter, and one person replied that the series was nothing but soft-core porn. I responded that I thought there was much more to the show. I was struck by the fact that the person who commented didn't seem at all bothered by the copious violence shown on GoT, which I wouldn't miss if it were reduced, especially in the very lengthy battle scenes. My question: Are you bothered by depictions of sex, violence, both, or neither? Why not both?
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