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Post by Catman on Feb 28, 2017 13:58:44 GMT
Hard for me to believe there is with so many design flaws. Maybe everything was created by Microsoft? Interesting question. Maybe we need to clean the registry files?
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Post by Karl Aksel on Feb 28, 2017 14:28:13 GMT
Nope.
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chasallnut
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Post by chasallnut on Feb 28, 2017 14:52:10 GMT
There are so many things necessary for human beings to be alive: the right location in the right kind of galaxy orbiting at the right distance from the right type of star in a continuously stable orbit. Somehow all the required astrophysical and geological events did occur. Is it possible for them to have happened without a guiding force? So what? You're acting like human beings had to happen. Or that life doesn't exist elsewhere.
Nothing you said means a god is required.
The next time you are walking down a road, pick up a rock and ask yourself, what are the odds that those elements happened to get together in that order to form that rock, and that it happened to wind up right in that exact spot, and that you happened to notice it amongst all the possible rocks you could have noticed. Does that mean anything? No.
Or that life doesn't exist elsewhere.
You have proof of that, or just playing the odds?
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Post by chasallnut on Feb 28, 2017 14:52:48 GMT
Yes
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2017 14:56:55 GMT
I don't believe in any god. It was a long shot for life to happen the way it did on Earth. But it happened. And it only needed to happen once. And there's the crux... it took nature three billion years, multiple extinctions, countless species some of which existed much longer than homo sapiens have to come up with modern humans... ... and we ain't gonna be here much longer.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Feb 28, 2017 14:58:38 GMT
There are so many things necessary for human beings to be alive: the right location in the right kind of galaxy orbiting at the right distance from the right type of star in a continuously stable orbit. Somehow all the required astrophysical and geological events did occur. Is it possible for them to have happened without a guiding force? I am happy to accept that everything is likely to have a cause apart from the cause itself. Where I lack belief is the assumption that the cause is necessarily deliberate in motivation and supernatural in origin.
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Post by Karl Aksel on Feb 28, 2017 15:05:12 GMT
So what? You're acting like human beings had to happen. Or that life doesn't exist elsewhere.
Nothing you said means a god is required.
The next time you are walking down a road, pick up a rock and ask yourself, what are the odds that those elements happened to get together in that order to form that rock, and that it happened to wind up right in that exact spot, and that you happened to notice it amongst all the possible rocks you could have noticed. Does that mean anything? No.
Or that life doesn't exist elsewhere.
You have proof of that, or just playing the odds?
The odds are pretty good, though.
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chasallnut
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Post by chasallnut on Feb 28, 2017 15:08:45 GMT
Or that life doesn't exist elsewhere.
You have proof of that, or just playing the odds?
The odds are pretty good, though. I'm not arguing what the odds are, but my point is to AtheistBecauseReason and his dismissal of anything without proof. At the moment there is no proof. Now do I believe life exists elsewhere? I would lean heavily towards yes, but that is my belief without actual proof.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Feb 28, 2017 15:12:39 GMT
The odds are pretty good, though. I'm not arguing what the odds are, but my point is to AtheistBecauseReason and his dismissal of anything without proof. At the moment there is no proof. Now do I believe life exists elsewhere? I would lean heavily towards yes, but that is my belief without actual proof.
Well to be honest there is a difference. We don't know that god(s) exist and so the belief in the deity of one's choice is faith. In contrast we do know that life exists for sure, we know what conditions are necessary for life and we moreover think that we have seen such conditions elsewhere (including two or three places in our own solar system.) So a belief that life exists elsewhere does not require the same level of credulity.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Feb 28, 2017 15:19:24 GMT
So what? You're acting like human beings had to happen. Or that life doesn't exist elsewhere.
Nothing you said means a god is required.
The next time you are walking down a road, pick up a rock and ask yourself, what are the odds that those elements happened to get together in that order to form that rock, and that it happened to wind up right in that exact spot, and that you happened to notice it amongst all the possible rocks you could have noticed. Does that mean anything? No.
Or that life doesn't exist elsewhere.
You have proof of that, or just playing the odds?
I didn't say life exists elsewhere, I said you're assuming it doesn't in order to pretend we are special. Maybe we aren't. Maybe life is somewhat common and your assertion that everything had to be just right or that such just right conditions don't commonly occur, is incorrect. And the only reason I say that we have to consider such a possibility is because we know countless planets exist with similar conditions.
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Post by Karl Aksel on Feb 28, 2017 15:19:56 GMT
The odds are pretty good, though. I'm not arguing what the odds are, but my point is to AtheistBecauseReason and his dismissal of anything without proof. At the moment there is no proof. Now do I believe life exists elsewhere? I would lean heavily towards yes, but that is my belief without actual proof.
Sure there is no proof. But, as they say, what is claimed without evidence may be dismissed without evidence.
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Post by chasallnut on Feb 28, 2017 15:37:35 GMT
Or that life doesn't exist elsewhere.
You have proof of that, or just playing the odds?
I didn't say life exists elsewhere, I said you're assuming it doesn't in order to pretend we are special. Maybe we aren't. Maybe life is somewhat common and your assertion that everything had to be just right or that such just right conditions don't commonly occur, is incorrect. And the only reason I say that we have to consider such a possibility is because we know countless planets exist with similar conditions. I said you're assuming it doesn't in order to pretend we are special.
I didn't say that at all - in fact you should try reading my posts
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Post by chasallnut on Feb 28, 2017 15:42:00 GMT
I'm not arguing what the odds are, but my point is to AtheistBecauseReason and his dismissal of anything without proof. At the moment there is no proof. Now do I believe life exists elsewhere? I would lean heavily towards yes, but that is my belief without actual proof.
Well to be honest there is a difference. We don't know that god(s) exist and so the belief in the deity of one's choice is faith. In contrast we do know that life exists for sure, we know what conditions are necessary for life and we moreover think that we have seen such conditions elsewhere (including two or three places in our own solar system.) So a belief that life exists elsewhere does not require the same level of credulity. Fair point and not one I'd disagree with, although there are so many more questions I would have around that and life here, and I don't have time to ask those right now, but I will in time I'm sure. I'm mischief making with ABR's resolute black and white viewpoints.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Feb 28, 2017 15:46:02 GMT
I said you're assuming it doesn't in order to pretend we are special.
I didn't say that at all - in fact you should try reading my posts
Then say what you meant, because that's what it sounded like.
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Post by chasallnut on Feb 28, 2017 15:52:29 GMT
I said you're assuming it doesn't in order to pretend we are special.
I didn't say that at all - in fact you should try reading my posts
Then say what you meant, because that's what it sounded like. I'm not arguing what the odds are, but my point is to AtheistBecauseReason and his dismissal of anything without proof. At the moment there is no proof.
Now do I believe life exists elsewhere? I would lean heavily towards yes, but that is my belief without actual proof.
My apologies I didn't realise you had issues with reading what people have actually quoted in this thread.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Feb 28, 2017 15:59:44 GMT
I'm not arguing what the odds are, but my point is to AtheistBecauseReason and his dismissal of anything without proof. At the moment there is no proof.
Now do I believe life exists elsewhere? I would lean heavily towards yes, but that is my belief without actual proof.
My apologies I didn't realise you had issues with reading what people have actually quoted in this thread.
No, I don't read through every post in this thread.
You're confusing proof with evidence. I never said prove it, so you're the one looking at things in black and white here.
If you had evidence for a god, or even evidence that a god was even possible, then I would strongly consider it. That is not the same thing as saying I need proof.
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chasallnut
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Post by chasallnut on Feb 28, 2017 20:02:30 GMT
I'm not arguing what the odds are, but my point is to AtheistBecauseReason and his dismissal of anything without proof. At the moment there is no proof.
Now do I believe life exists elsewhere? I would lean heavily towards yes, but that is my belief without actual proof.
My apologies I didn't realise you had issues with reading what people have actually quoted in this thread.
No, I don't read through every post in this thread.
You're confusing proof with evidence. I never said prove it, so you're the one looking at things in black and white here.
If you had evidence for a god, or even evidence that a god was even possible, then I would strongly consider it. That is not the same thing as saying I need proof.
I'm confusing neither, you have neither proof or evidence that life exists elsewhere. What you have is similar circumstances that could support life. And you shouldn't make assumptions about what people are posting unless you've read their posts. Would help to make you look less foolish.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Feb 28, 2017 20:51:46 GMT
No, I don't read through every post in this thread.
You're confusing proof with evidence. I never said prove it, so you're the one looking at things in black and white here.
If you had evidence for a god, or even evidence that a god was even possible, then I would strongly consider it. That is not the same thing as saying I need proof.
I'm confusing neither, you have neither proof or evidence that life exists elsewhere. What you have is similar circumstances that could support life. And you shouldn't make assumptions about what people are posting unless you've read their posts. Would help to make you look less foolish. I never said I had evidence of life elsewhere. Where did you make that up? I said exactly what you just said, that we know of similar circumstances that could support life.
And I'm only responding to what you wrote me directly. Don't assume I'm following every post you write to others. That just makes you look foolish.
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Post by NJtoTX on Mar 1, 2017 0:42:56 GMT
No. Not a theist, but not gnostic either and don't necessarily care to be. I heavily discount the likelihood of a deity, however.
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Post by chasallnut on Mar 1, 2017 7:48:26 GMT
I'm confusing neither, you have neither proof or evidence that life exists elsewhere. What you have is similar circumstances that could support life. And you shouldn't make assumptions about what people are posting unless you've read their posts. Would help to make you look less foolish. I never said I had evidence of life elsewhere. Where did you make that up? I said exactly what you just said, that we know of similar circumstances that could support life.
And I'm only responding to what you wrote me directly. Don't assume I'm following every post you write to others. That just makes you look foolish.
So what? You're acting like human beings had to happen. Or that life doesn't exist elsewhere.
That is what you posted, my inference is that you believe there is life elsewhere. I never said you had evidence or proof (you really do need to hone your comprehension skills). My posts on this thread (which you read only part of) were just that, you had neither but believe there is life elsewhere, in the absence of both. You might want to let the penny drop!!
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