vernuf
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Post by vernuf on Mar 16, 2017 16:07:42 GMT
There are so many things necessary for human beings to be alive: the right location in the right kind of galaxy orbiting at the right distance from the right type of star in a continuously stable orbit. Somehow all the required astrophysical and geological events did occur. Is it possible for them to have happened without a guiding force? Until you have something significantly more than an argument from incredulity, yes.
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Post by theoncomingstorm on Mar 16, 2017 16:12:30 GMT
There are so many things necessary for human beings to be alive: the right location in the right kind of galaxy orbiting at the right distance from the right type of star in a continuously stable orbit. Somehow all the required astrophysical and geological events did occur. Is it possible for them to have happened without a guiding force? Great, yet another thread where someone has no understanding of statistics and probability yet still wants to comment about the improbability of something happening after it has already happened.
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Post by Catman on Mar 16, 2017 16:15:40 GMT
There are so many things necessary for human beings to be alive: the right location in the right kind of galaxy orbiting at the right distance from the right type of star in a continuously stable orbit. Somehow all the required astrophysical and geological events did occur. Is it possible for them to have happened without a guiding force? Great, yet another thread where someone has no understanding of statistics and probability yet still wants to comment about the improbability of something happening after it has already happened. He perhaps has a future as a sports commentator with such a deep understanding of how statistics work.
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Post by 🌵 on Mar 16, 2017 16:25:32 GMT
Most of the atheists and agnostics that I know, including myself, do not really care one way or the other whether there is a creator. There are certainly some atheists/agnostics who strongly dislike the idea that the universe has a creator. I think Christopher Hitchens described at least the Christian God as a "cosmic dictator" or a "cosmic North Korea" or something along those lines (I'm not sure how he felt about non-interventionist, deistic deities; maybe he didn't find those so bad). But in my own experience, that kind of attitude is rare. Indeed, a lot of atheists/agnostics that I know say that they'd prefer it if there were a god. They find the idea of god comforting, but just don't see any reason to believe it. Yet again when atheists complain about religion it's "Christianity." That is not a religion. It does illustrate the point I made about how the art of religion is lost. Remember > The concept of religion most people have is of a "Christianity" that has no discipline at all and only exists to antagonize government that is the only thing keeping any order. That is of course a totally wrong view of religion. Religion is the foundation of good discipline, not government.
I think the overwhelming majority of atheists very much do not want there to be a creator. I think that has an effect on the others like you (if you are what you say). It makes it appear that "everyone scientific" doesn't see any reason to believe in a creator, and that isn't true. The evidence is very strong for an intelligent designer and has been for decades. I go so far as to say it's proved. Obviously Christianity is a religion per any standard use of the term "religion". Anyway, that was just an example of an atheist who expressed dislike of the idea of a creator. Since I'm only aware of his comments on the Christian god, that was all I could speak about. I simply attempting to acknowledge that it is true that at least some atheists, as you suggest, do not want to believe in a creator. Surely if most atheists were motivated by the desire for there not to be a creator, that would make them appear unscientific? Standardly, science tends to be associated with the attempt to evaluate evidence in an unemotional, unbiased way; to "follow the evidence wherever it leads", even if to conclusions that are found uncomfortable. (This is not to say that this is how scientists actually behave, just that this is how they are generally perceived to behave.)
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Post by theoncomingstorm on Mar 16, 2017 16:28:01 GMT
Great, yet another thread where someone has no understanding of statistics and probability yet still wants to comment about the improbability of something happening after it has already happened. He perhaps has a future as a sports commentator with such a deep understanding of how statistics work. I have determined that there is little chance you could have made that post at the precise microsecond which you made it, therefore GOD!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2017 16:36:19 GMT
I suspect that many people are aware there was likely some "creator" or intelligent force involved in the successful establishment of life on Earth who nevertheless say they do not think there was. It's not so much that they're "lying" as it's that they really do not want to believe in a creator. Funny, I always had the opposite thought - most people who claim there is some sort of god probably think, deep down, that this isn't true. It's not so much that they're "lying" as it's that they really want it to be true.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2017 16:37:26 GMT
Of course.
Anyone who believes the complexity of the cosmos and life on Earth came about randomly; that a complex code like DNA (which is a complex 'language' and only intelligence can create language) all came about at random; that life can come out of nothing, is a stupid idiot.
Notice how atheism is only found in White cultures and in developed countries? There are no native cultures or past civilizations that didn't believe in a Creator, and they were not stupid people. In some ways, they were more advanced than we are today as far as knowing the ways of nature and this world.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2017 16:38:42 GMT
Yes, there is a huge one under the Yucatan Peninsula...
And loads on the moon, just have a look through some binoculars or a telescope one night.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2017 16:40:11 GMT
Of course.
Anyone who believes the complexity of the cosmos and life on Earth came about randomly; that a complex code like DNA (which is a complex 'language' and only intelligence can create language) all came about at random; that life can come out of nothing, is a stupid idiot. Indeed, we agree on that. Which is why I believe that it came about because of the physical laws of the universe and, in the case of DNA, through evolution. Course if you don't believe in those things then you're even more of an idiot.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2017 16:42:02 GMT
Of course.
Anyone who believes the complexity of the cosmos and life on Earth came about randomly; that a complex code like DNA (which is a complex 'language' and only intelligence can create language) all came about at random; that life can come out of nothing, is a stupid idiot. Indeed, we agree on that. Which is why I believe that it came about because of the physical laws of the universe and, in the case of DNA, through evolution. Course if you don't believe in those things then you're even more of an idiot. Oh, there was evolution all right, but that doesn't disprove a Creator.
Btw, I don't know why you're laughing like a fool.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2017 16:45:33 GMT
Indeed, we agree on that. Which is why I believe that it came about because of the physical laws of the universe and, in the case of DNA, through evolution. Course if you don't believe in those things then you're even more of an idiot. Oh, there was evolution all right, but that doesn't disprove a Creator.
Btw, I don't know why you're laughing like a fool.I think Graham is laughing at your last paragraph... I for one am not laughing at it... rolling my eyes in disbelief yes, but laughing, no.
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Post by looking4klingons on Mar 16, 2017 16:46:47 GMT
There are so many things necessary for human beings to be alive: the right location in the right kind of galaxy orbiting at the right distance from the right type of star in a continuously stable orbit. Somehow all the required astrophysical and geological events did occur. Is it possible for them to have happened without a guiding force? Yes, I believe in Our Heavenly Father. Wouldn't that be HaShem?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2017 16:48:24 GMT
@fatherjackhackett, why? Do you believe the ancient civilizations who built the pyramids, the Native Americans, and the Australian aborigines were/are stupid?
Do you think only technology reflects intelligence?
We can build rockets into space but still can't cure disease and many other things.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2017 16:50:45 GMT
@fatherjackhackett , why? Do you believe the ancient civilizations who built the pyramids, the Native Americans, and the Australian aborigines were/are stupid?
Do you think only technology reflects intelligence?
We can build rockets into space but still can't cure disease and many other things. Speaking as an archaeologist, I will just say you are out of your depth here.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2017 16:56:41 GMT
@fatherjackhackett , why? Do you believe the ancient civilizations who built the pyramids, the Native Americans, and the Australian aborigines were/are stupid?
Do you think only technology reflects intelligence?
We can build rockets into space but still can't cure disease and many other things. Speaking as an archaeologist, I will just say you are out of your depth here. Okay, then answer my question. Were those people stupid? Why were the pyramids built, Mr. Archeologist? Give us all the answers. Don't keep us in the dark.
Mr. Archeologist, are the Native Americans stupid?
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vernuf
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Post by vernuf on Mar 16, 2017 16:56:48 GMT
Of course.
Anyone who believes the complexity of the cosmos and life on Earth came about randomly; that a complex code like DNA (which is a complex 'language' and only intelligence can create language) all came about at random; that life can come out of nothing, is a stupid idiot.
Notice how atheism is only found in White cultures and in developed countries? There are no native cultures or past civilizations that didn't believe in a Creator, and they were not stupid people. In some ways, they were more advanced than we are today as far as knowing the ways of nature and this world. Is this your way of saying that you're a complete moron?
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vernuf
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Post by vernuf on Mar 16, 2017 16:57:08 GMT
Speaking as an archaeologist, I will just say you are out of your depth here. Okay, then answer my question. Were those people stupid? Why were the pyramids built, Mr. Archeologist? Give us all the answers. Don't keep us in the dark.
Mr. Archeologist, are the Native Americans stupid?Do you know what a straw man is?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2017 16:58:46 GMT
Okay, then answer my question. Were those people stupid? Why were the pyramids built, Mr. Archeologist? Give us all the answers. Don't keep us in the dark.
Mr. Archeologist, are the Native Americans stupid? Do you know what a straw man is? I could argue with you 'know-it-alls' all day long but it would be an exercise in futility and I have work and things to do today.
I will just reiterate that there is most definitely a Creator.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2017 17:01:02 GMT
Speaking as an archaeologist, I will just say you are out of your depth here. Okay, then answer my question. Were those people stupid? Why were the pyramids built, Mr. Archeologist? Give us all the answers. Don't keep us in the dark.
Mr. Archeologist, are the Native Americans stupid?Strangely, no they weren't... they had generations of accumulated knowledge of things like mathematics, architecture, etc to utilise... But, that has nothing to do with your paragraph in question... Yours sincerely Mr Archaeologist PS why the pyramids were built? They were massive vanity projects, status symbols... nothing more, nothing less.
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Post by fatpaul on Mar 16, 2017 17:11:31 GMT
Of course.
Anyone who believes the complexity of the cosmos and life on Earth came about randomly; that a complex code like DNA (which is a complex 'language' and only intelligence can create language) all came about at random; that life can come out of nothing, is a stupid idiot.
If they're going to treat nothing as a property, then I'd agree that they're an idiot.
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