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Post by THawk on Aug 15, 2017 13:11:19 GMT
All throughout Hollywood in recent years the "diversity" craze has been sweeping production after production, where regardless of story, background, context etc., activists have demanded that minorities are represented everywhere. Tv shows, movies, award shows etc, unless you fulfill the requirements of "diversity," you are not going to get ahead these days. Which by some is seen as "progress."
But then a question to movie-goers - if you are a minority, whether it be in terms of race, nationality, religion, politics, etc, and you feel your minority group has been discriminated or in any way treated unfairly - do you share this demand to have your "kind" represented in everything, or almost everything you watch? Do you feel insulted when you watch something and you don't see "your people" there? Is it an important issue at all for you?
As one myself, it has never in a million years crossed my mind to even think about having such expectations or demands. If I see my "kind" on screen, the most you can get out of me is a "hah." The problems and issues affecting myself as a minority cannot be solved by being sprinkled around on Hollywood screens, and even if by some magic they could, it would be absurd to demand studio execs and writers to change or create scripts to fit my needs. Add to that that there are thousands of legitimate, oppressed minority groups - what justifies representing some, but not others?
Overall it has been an absurd direction.
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Post by TutuAnimationPrincess on Aug 15, 2017 14:23:32 GMT
Whether it be shows or movies I've always felt the writing should come first, everything else is secondary. Character and casting selection should always support the writing, not the other way around. And as a lesbian, I always want to see LGBT representation done on a quality over quantity basis.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2017 14:53:14 GMT
I demand that every role in Hollywood movies is to be played by norwegian actors\actresses
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Post by misternick on Aug 15, 2017 19:58:51 GMT
Well I guess some people are easily placated
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Post by bd74 on Aug 15, 2017 20:37:33 GMT
As one myself, it has never in a million years crossed my mind to even think about having such expectations or demands. Same here, but I can see both sides of the coin. When minorities make expectations and demands, it breeds tokenism. For example, at the Emmy awards, they expanded the nomination slots in the acting categories. What used to be just 5 nominees is now 6 or 7 in each acting category -- it's quite obviously an attempt to ensure that there are minorities included in each category.  I find that type of thing ridiculous. Nominations for awards should be based solely on merit. And if we're being sincere, it's mainly just one specific minority group (AAs) who usually does the complaining about "inclusion" and all that nonsense. On the other hand, it is rather peculiar that certain other minority groups are virtually nonexistent in Hollywood. For example, Mexican-Americans comprise the second-largest ethnic group in the country (some people say that it's already the largest ethnic group) and yet you rarely if ever see a Mexican-American or an otherwise latino character in a film or a tv show. And if there is such a character, it's usually a gang member, a prison inmate, a maid, a lawncare worker, or one who speaks heavily accented English or who speaks Spanglish. I don't believe in throwing a minority character into every film and tv show just for the sake of "representation", but I do think that films and tv shows that are set in a big city in the modern day should be a more realistic representation of reality. If it's a movie about police detectives for example, there's no reason why there shouldn't be a latino detective in that movie, since there are latino detectives in every major city in real life. Same thing with other occupations: doctors, lawyers, teachers, college professors, psychologists, government employees, etc. |
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Post by hi224 on Aug 15, 2017 21:21:36 GMT
I loved the way Alien cast its actors.
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Post by barkingbaphomet on Aug 15, 2017 23:05:18 GMT
it's silly.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2017 0:26:16 GMT
I'm white, and two of my top 5 favorite comedians of all time are Richard Pryor and Eddie Murphy.
I don't care about race, Javier Bardem is one of the best actors in Hollywood right now, as well as Denzel and Viola Davis.
I just want want the best actor for the role to get the part. Now if it's a Role for a specific race, then it should be cast accordingly.
For Example, Superman should be white, and Cyborg should be black. It wasn't right for Johnny Depp to play a Native American.
However, if it's just a random character in Star Trek or Star Wars, just hire the best actor no matter what race.
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Post by geezer on Aug 16, 2017 2:00:45 GMT
I demand that every role in Hollywood movies is to be played by norwegian actors\actresses You got something against Finns? |
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Post by politicidal on Aug 16, 2017 2:04:03 GMT
I demand that every role in Hollywood movies is to be played by norwegian actors\actresses You got something against Finns? They're a treacherous lot. Ask the Russians. |
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Post by geezer on Aug 16, 2017 3:15:16 GMT
You got something against Finns? They're a treacherous lot. Ask the Russians. Who am I, Donald Trump? The Russians are a treacherous lot. Ask ANYBODY. |
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Post by mslo79 on Aug 16, 2017 3:30:28 GMT
TutuAnimationPrincessI think that (the bold text) applies to most things in general as far as i am concerned  because i would rather have less of a good thing than too much of a okay thing. it's kinda like those all-you-can-eat "restaurants"... they give you plenty of food but, the way i see it, they tend to be lower quality food and since i can't eat a boat load of food at one time i would rather take that $10-15 or so and put it towards a decent restaurant instead which is still more than enough food for me and tastes much better. basically i think most of those all-you-can-eat types of restaurants are for those people who overeat. like those who prefer quantity over quality instead of the other way around like myself. @mellomoviereview but... he likely would be better in the role more than anyone else as i think when it comes to bigger name movies you tend to need well known actors (or at least semi-known) in the role to get more people to see the movie. sure, if they could have found a Native American to play that role as well as Depp, then fine go with it. but i can't really see that happening off the top of my head. so in the end Depp was probably the better option overall. p.s. but outside of this i pretty much agreed with your general post. but it seems like those with the most commanding screen presences tend to be white. not always, but largely this is the case. this is why i think those minorities trying to force Hollywood to get more of them in shows/movies is BS as i am more concerned with the best people for the role than just being in something just because your a minority. but only way Hollywood will catch the drift here is if it starts messing with their $$$. but with that said... i suspect most minorities will work better in a supporting role than leading role because in terms of leading roles, for your typical name movie, you need a solid screen presence and that mainly boils down to white people (or those white-ish) for the masses here in the USA (and other like countries). bd74Yeah, but since i like Crime/Drama types of movies when you see a Mexican in those it's typically going to be Cartel related stuff. it works well in some movies
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Post by medjay on Aug 16, 2017 11:34:38 GMT
As part Russian, Polish, Bulgarian etc you cannot be a minority?
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Post by Terrapin Station on Aug 16, 2017 11:40:10 GMT
I'm a minority in terms of politics (a minority of one in that case) and religion, at least.
I don't believe that it's the job of artists to represent any demographic. Their only job is to create artworks that they believe in re expression.
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Aug 16, 2017 14:58:56 GMT
The problem isn't only underrepresentation, its also misrepresentation. For too long during my lifetime watching movies I have seen people of color, women and gay people either not get enough roles, or when they do its as criminals, ho's, low lives or comic relief. Not always, but far too often. "Look at the black man come to rob me, look at the "other" come to take something from me, look at the black guy sing and dance his way into our hearts, look at the woman street walking or pole dancing or at best struggling as a sidekick, look at the gay guy with the limp wrist, isn't he funny?"
For most of you its okay to say "just cast the best actor" because without even thinking about it there is a privilege you have, unearned mind you, of knowing that far more often than not that actor who ends up being cast is going to be like you, white. Its not even a thought. But now that its starting to turn around, more and more white folk are all up in arms about it!
Think of this: Marvel Studios movies. How many have starred black leads? How many have starred female leads? How many have starred a gay lead? And how much BS came out of the woodwork when Idris Elba was cast a in a ridiculously minor role for an actor of his stature? As of this writing 16 movies all with white male leads (Nick Fury and Rhodes don't count, they're not leads, Black Widow is a sidekick and ScarJo should be pissed she hasn't gotten a solo movie, and I know Black Panther is coming, finally).
And you're going to say "but the characters were white in the comic so they should be white in the movie". And that's the other half of the problem. There are no leads of color in the movies because there are no characters for them to be cast as. The problem isn't just in the movies, its in the properties they're based on, properties that stem as far back as when it was socially ok to marginalize people of color, women and gays. These properties are all from the 60's and back.
"Just cast the best actor" even today still means "9 out of 10 times its going to be a white male". Diversity isn't a "craze". Its what's right. It is NOT absurd to demand that you get representation when "you" equals MILLIONS of audience viewers who pay good money just like every white audience member.
Also, I question the stance of anyone who would argue against their own self interests. If you're a person of color, a woman, gay, etc. why wouldn't you want more representation, whether it be in movies or whatever? How are we truly an equal society otherwise?
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Post by poelzig on Aug 16, 2017 15:20:41 GMT
The problem isn't only underrepresentation, its also misrepresentation. For too long during my lifetime watching movies I have seen people of color, women and gay people either not get enough roles, or when they do its as criminals, ho's, low lives or comic relief. Not always, but far too often. "Look at the black man come to rob me, look at the "other" come to take something from me, look at the black guy sing and dance his way into our hearts, look at the woman street walking or pole dancing or at best struggling as a sidekick, look at the gay guy with the limp wrist, isn't he funny?"
For most of you its okay to say "just cast the best actor" because without even thinking about it there is a privilege you have, unearned mind you, of knowing that far more often than not that actor who ends up being cast is going to be like you, white. Its not even a thought. But now that its starting to turn around, more and more white folk are all up in arms about it!
Think of this: Marvel Studios movies. How many have starred black leads? How many have starred female leads? How many have starred a gay lead? And how much BS came out of the woodwork when Idris Elba was cast a in a ridiculously minor role for an actor of his stature? As of this writing 16 movies all with white male leads (Nick Fury and Rhodes don't count, they're not leads, Black Widow is a sidekick and ScarJo should be pissed she hasn't gotten a solo movie, and I know Black Panther is coming, finally).
And you're going to say "but the characters were white in the comic so they should be white in the movie". And that's the other half of the problem. There are no leads of color in the movies because there are no characters for them to be cast as. The problem isn't just in the movies, its in the properties they're based on, properties that stem as far back as when it was socially ok to marginalize people of color, women and gays. These properties are all from the 60's and back.
"Just cast the best actor" even today still means "9 out of 10 times its going to be a white male". Diversity isn't a "craze". Its what's right. It is NOT absurd to demand that you get representation when "you" equals MILLIONS of audience viewers who pay good money just like every white audience member.
You're a white guy so why are you virtue signalling when the OP specifically asked for minorities to respond? As a minority what annoys me about "diversity" is the vast majority of the time it means black guy to silly white liberals like yourself. Although now I guess we have "progressed" to the point it also means having the obligatory gay character shoehorned in as well. Gay is the new black after all. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2017 16:14:27 GMT
no i dont
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Post by Terrapin Station on Aug 16, 2017 16:19:42 GMT
The problem isn't only underrepresentation, its also misrepresentation.
But you understand that the films you're talking about are fiction, right? They're not documentaries. |
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Post by TutuAnimationPrincess on Aug 16, 2017 17:00:41 GMT
The problem isn't only underrepresentation, its also misrepresentation. For too long during my lifetime watching movies I have seen people of color, women and gay people either not get enough roles, or when they do its as criminals, ho's, low lives or comic relief. Not always, but far too often. "Look at the black man come to rob me, look at the "other" come to take something from me, look at the black guy sing and dance his way into our hearts, look at the woman street walking or pole dancing or at best struggling as a sidekick, look at the gay guy with the limp wrist, isn't he funny?"
For most of you its okay to say "just cast the best actor" because without even thinking about it there is a privilege you have, unearned mind you, of knowing that far more often than not that actor who ends up being cast is going to be like you, white. Its not even a thought. But now that its starting to turn around, more and more white folk are all up in arms about it!
Think of this: Marvel Studios movies. How many have starred black leads? How many have starred female leads? How many have starred a gay lead? And how much BS came out of the woodwork when Idris Elba was cast a in a ridiculously minor role for an actor of his stature? As of this writing 16 movies all with white male leads (Nick Fury and Rhodes don't count, they're not leads, Black Widow is a sidekick and ScarJo should be pissed she hasn't gotten a solo movie, and I know Black Panther is coming, finally).
And you're going to say "but the characters were white in the comic so they should be white in the movie". And that's the other half of the problem. There are no leads of color in the movies because there are no characters for them to be cast as. The problem isn't just in the movies, its in the properties they're based on, properties that stem as far back as when it was socially ok to marginalize people of color, women and gays. These properties are all from the 60's and back.
"Just cast the best actor" even today still means "9 out of 10 times its going to be a white male". Diversity isn't a "craze". Its what's right. It is NOT absurd to demand that you get representation when "you" equals MILLIONS of audience viewers who pay good money just like every white audience member.
My response to this is we should be moving past such superficiality. As much as I enjoy seeing a lesbian character done right, I don't need an abundance of that to enjoy and connect with a character. There are far more interesting things about people than their race, sex, sexuality, or anything else that ultimately should have little impact on who someone is as a person. I want my variety to be in story telling and real character traits, not just meaningless diversity. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2017 17:05:26 GMT
I demand that every role in Hollywood movies is to be played by norwegian actors\actresses You got something against Finns? Are you talking about the Forest Finns or the other Finns ? |
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