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Post by poelzig on Aug 17, 2017 15:00:28 GMT
That's odd because I remember you claiming you were white on a different thread. Does it change depending on what point you're trying to make? I've NEVER seen or heard a fellow non caucasian use the term "person of color". EVER. That's a silly white liberal thing. All that multiculturalism you love boasting about has turned you into a self aggrandizing whine bag. Congratulations amigo. You may have misread or misunderstood something I wrote. I am Latino, but I appear white, so I am accepted in a lot of social circles that I might not be if I were dark. I use the term person of color because I'm talking to people who are not persons of color.
Fellow non-Caucasian? So YOU'RE not white? That's interesting, because you take very pro-white stances almost all the time. I've read many of your posts. Wassup with that? Do you secretly wish you were white? If you're not then why the heck would you argue against your own interests?
So you're AGAIN telling a minority how they should think just like you did with the homosexual person in the other post and AGAIN because I dare think for myself like Tutu did you smugly point out the error of my ways? That's mighty white of you chico. I know a bigot like you has a hard time accepting that a minority wouldn't be some type of hive mind and hate whitey. How dare I think for myself, right? I bes sorry bout dat boss. Hows I's sposed to thank? Also please educate this poor ignorant minority what my interests are. Sadly I'm too swarthy to pass like you you do so I'm not sure what a "pro white stance" is so perhaps you will educate me and help me avoid it in the future jefe. Since you point out you are "passing" it seems like hanging out with all those pasty liberals has had quite the influence on you. You claim you didn't discount what tutu said but you literally did it numerous times. You told her " I can hardly believe that being a woman and gay rank low on the totem pole for you. I don't think you've really thought out just how much those things define you." WTF?!!! That type of "I know what's best for you" thinking is the exact reason I have so much disdain for white liberals. You sure seem eager to adopt their narrow minded way of thinking though. You see lenlen that's why you're an asshole. Sadly I'm too swarthy to pass like you do so Out of curiosity, which one of your great great grand parents was a "person of color" allowing you to claim you're latino?
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Post by poelzig on Aug 17, 2017 15:04:52 GMT
Obviously I've pissed some people off by trying to give a different point of view.
But if you're one of those people ask yourself this: Why are you annoyed? I am arguing for the rights of people - blacks, women, gays, etc. who have been traditionally, historically marginalized in this country. You CANNOT look at the history of this country (and more specifically to this thread - movies) and say that its not true. That would be insane. And while I think there are some assholes on these boards, I don't think there's anyone who's outright stupid or insane.
So ask yourself, what is that you're really pissed off about? That I'm offering you a different perspective to chew on, or that you cant put yourself in the shoes of someone who's been marginalized? That's all I'm asking really. Before you lash out and immediately discount me as a liberal SJW take a moment and think about what it would be like if YOU were the one that was getting a life time of subtle but sustained disregard and hate.
Stop for a moment and really let that sink in, and then tell me that you wouldn't want it to change. No you're not. You're telling people how they should think and when we disagree you tell us we don't know what's best for us. That and LOTS of patting yourself on the back and virtue signalling. You seriously don't see what a smug douchebag you are, huh? So sadly typical.
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Post by TutuAnimationPrincess on Aug 17, 2017 16:15:42 GMT
Obviously I've pissed some people off by trying to give a different point of view.
But if you're one of those people ask yourself this: Why are you annoyed? I am arguing for the rights of people - blacks, women, gays, etc. who have been traditionally, historically marginalized in this country. You CANNOT look at the history of this country (and more specifically to this thread - movies) and say that its not true. That would be insane. And while I think there are some assholes on these boards, I don't think there's anyone who's outright stupid or insane.
So ask yourself, what is that you're really pissed off about? That I'm offering you a different perspective to chew on, or that you cant put yourself in the shoes of someone who's been marginalized? That's all I'm asking really. Before you lash out and immediately discount me as a liberal SJW take a moment and think about what it would be like if YOU were the one that was getting a life time of subtle but sustained disregard and hate.
Stop for a moment and really let that sink in, and then tell me that you wouldn't want it to change. I don't discredit the struggles of the past nor do I disagree that there's always ways we can improve as a society. However, I don't hold those today responsible for the hate and crimes of those in the past. While there will always exist those who hate me for superficial reasons, those people are quite the minority and have no bearing on my life. Getting back to movies, I see nothing good coming from choosing forced diversity over quality writing. As a society we've evolved naturally and entertainment can too. The way this recent talk about "more representation" in Hollywood comes off is more as a sort of petty revenge rather than doing anything to improve film quality. The best person for the job should always be priority number one. And if I haven't made it clear by now, I find it quite shallow for someone to believe a character has to match them in race, gender, sexuality, etc. for them to be able to enjoy and relate to them. On a final note, I don't get angry about posts on a message board or differing opinions, that would be quite silly. I do enjoy passionate debate though if the topic interest me.
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Aug 17, 2017 16:36:56 GMT
You may have misread or misunderstood something I wrote. I am Latino, but I appear white, so I am accepted in a lot of social circles that I might not be if I were dark. I use the term person of color because I'm talking to people who are not persons of color.
Fellow non-Caucasian? So YOU'RE not white? That's interesting, because you take very pro-white stances almost all the time. I've read many of your posts. Wassup with that? Do you secretly wish you were white? If you're not then why the heck would you argue against your own interests?
So you're AGAIN telling a minority how they should think just like you did with the homosexual person in the other post and AGAIN because I dare think for myself like Tutu did you smugly point out the error of my ways? That's mighty white of you chico. I know a bigot like you has a hard time accepting that a minority wouldn't be some type of hive mind and hate whitey. How dare I think for myself, right? I bes sorry bout dat boss. Hows I's sposed to thank? Also please educate this poor ignorant minority what my interests are. Sadly I'm too swarthy to pass like you you do so I'm not sure what a "pro white stance" is so perhaps you will educate me and help me avoid it in the future jefe. Since you point out you are "passing" it seems like hanging out with all those pasty liberals has had quite the influence on you. You claim you didn't discount what tutu said but you literally did it numerous times. You told her " I can hardly believe that being a woman and gay rank low on the totem pole for you. I don't think you've really thought out just how much those things define you." WTF?!!! That type of "I know what's best for you" thinking is the exact reason I have so much disdain for white liberals. You sure seem eager to adopt their narrow minded way of thinking though. You see lenlen that's why you're an asshole. Sadly I'm too swarthy to pass like you do so Out of curiosity, which one of your great great grand parents was a "person of color" allowing you to claim you're latino? You wrote: "So you're AGAIN telling a minority how they should think just like you did with the homosexual person in the other post and AGAIN because I dare think for myself like Tutu did you smugly point out the error of my ways? That's mighty white of you chico. I know a bigot like you..." and that's where I realized there might really be something wrong with you.
This is classic deflection and reversal and a lame attempt at pseudo-b.s. reverse psychology, which I've also seen you do on other threads. You're full of shit and you know it. God, I hope you know it, because otherwise you're living in some fantasy world where the rules of reality don't adhere.
I'm a bigot because I want people of color, woman and gays to have the same rights that white males take for granted?! How the fuck in your warped mind does that make any fricking sense? I recently wrote that I didn't think there were outright insane people on these boards but buddy you are making me really question that! If I'm a bigot then you're an outright Nazi! lol
I am practically the only person on this thread that has argued FOR inclusion, FOR more roles for blacks, women and gays, FOR more diversity in movies and in society... and I'm the bigot? How are you adding 2 +2 and getting 18? Are you just fricking stupid? Add something constructive to the discussion or go away.
P.S. All four of my grandparents and both my mother and father are 100% pure Latino. 100%
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Post by Terrapin Station on Aug 17, 2017 16:47:35 GMT
For me--I'm an artist (primarily re music in my case, but I also do some visual art, I write some fiction, and I'm also involved with films in a couple different respects, including that I do scoring--in fact, that's all I've been doing this year so far, and I've got more scoring gigs lined up)--anyway, for me, my problem with it as an artist is that I don't want general consumers pressuring me about the content of my work, especially when (a) it's essentially politically-oriented, (b) it's realism-oriented, and (c) they don't even seem to get the gist of what artworks are in the first place.
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Post by outrider127 on Aug 17, 2017 17:00:31 GMT
All throughout Hollywood in recent years the "diversity" craze has been sweeping production after production, where regardless of story, background, context etc., activists have demanded that minorities are represented everywhere. Tv shows, movies, award shows etc, unless you fulfill the requirements of "diversity," you are not going to get ahead these days. Which by some is seen as "progress." But then a question to movie-goers - if you are a minority, whether it be in terms of race, nationality, religion, politics, etc, and you feel your minority group has been discriminated or in any way treated unfairly - do you share this demand to have your "kind" represented in everything, or almost everything you watch? Do you feel insulted when you watch something and you don't see "your people" there? Is it an important issue at all for you? As one myself, it has never in a million years crossed my mind to even think about having such expectations or demands. If I see my "kind" on screen, the most you can get out of me is a "hah." The problems and issues affecting myself as a minority cannot be solved by being sprinkled around on Hollywood screens, and even if by some magic they could, it would be absurd to demand studio execs and writers to change or create scripts to fit my needs. Add to that that there are thousands of legitimate, oppressed minority groups - what justifies representing some, but not others? Overall it has been an absurd direction. Not a minority myself ,but the King Arthur movie disaster was not helped by absurdly having Djimon Honsou as one of the main character Knights,a black Knight in 500 AD Britain? a black guy anywhere in 500 AD Britain??--Even more absurd was the old Kung Fu guy--Pandering to the PC crowd, so dumb
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Aug 17, 2017 17:09:54 GMT
Obviously I've pissed some people off by trying to give a different point of view.
But if you're one of those people ask yourself this: Why are you annoyed? I am arguing for the rights of people - blacks, women, gays, etc. who have been traditionally, historically marginalized in this country. You CANNOT look at the history of this country (and more specifically to this thread - movies) and say that its not true. That would be insane. And while I think there are some assholes on these boards, I don't think there's anyone who's outright stupid or insane.
So ask yourself, what is that you're really pissed off about? That I'm offering you a different perspective to chew on, or that you cant put yourself in the shoes of someone who's been marginalized? That's all I'm asking really. Before you lash out and immediately discount me as a liberal SJW take a moment and think about what it would be like if YOU were the one that was getting a life time of subtle but sustained disregard and hate.
Stop for a moment and really let that sink in, and then tell me that you wouldn't want it to change. I don't discredit the struggles of the past nor do I disagree that there's always ways we can improve as a society. However, I don't hold those today responsible for the hate and crimes of those in the past. While there will always exist those who hate me for superficial reasons, those people are quite the minority and have no bearing on my life. Getting back to movies, I see nothing good coming from choosing forced diversity over quality writing. As a society we've evolved naturally and entertainment can too. The way this recent talk about "more representation" in Hollywood comes off is more as a sort of petty revenge rather than doing anything to improve film quality. The best person for the job should always be priority number one. And if I haven't made it clear by now, I find it quite shallow for someone to believe a character has to match them in race, gender, sexuality, etc. for them to be able to enjoy and relate to them. On a final note, I don't get angry about posts on a message board or differing opinions, that would be quite silly. I do enjoy passionate debate though if the topic interest me. I don't hold those today responsible for the hate and crimes of those in the past.
I don't either. There's no point. People who have no shame don't accept responsibility anyway. But the problem is that its NOT just in the past. Its still happening now just in subtler more insidious ways. Its so commonplace that I'm NOT surprised people don't see it more clearly and call it out more often. You, as a woman, are more likely to be treated unfairly and over charged at a car shop than I am, just because I'm a man. You are more likely to not get a house or a rental because of bias against gays than I am. And once someone like that learns that I am of Latin descent I will also be more likely to be discriminated against in similar small ways because "if you let one in there goes the neighborhood".
While there will always exist those who hate me for superficial reasons, those people are quite the minority and have no bearing on my life.
I'm honestly very happy that those people have no bearing on your life, really. I wish it were that simple for everyone. And maybe in YOUR life those people are quite the minority because of the community you're surrounded by (family, friends, town/city). But they're not quite the minority in the lives of millions of others. What about the people who are not surrounded by such an enlightened community? What about people whose own parents hate them just for being gay? What about women who lives in households where they've never been beaten or yelled at but are expected to be only housewives and nothing more? And what the daughters in that household? They're never going to get a chance and they wont even really know why. They'll just accept their lot in life as secondary citizens. "That's just the way it is". What about the young black man who gets shot by a cop and it turns that he WASNT DOING ANYTHING WRONG AT ALL? Young black men have been shot even when they weren't even looking suspicious.
The best person for the job should always be priority number one.
Absolutely... unless the best person ALWAYS turns out to be from one group to the exclusion of all others. The best person should sometimes be black, female or gay. The best person shouldn't always be white male.
I've been accused of "telling you what to do." I don't think I have, but maybe its more that I just don't get how as a woman and gay you haven't experienced any of this, or don't accept that any of this is very real for people other than yourself (?)
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Post by poelzig on Aug 17, 2017 20:00:49 GMT
So you're AGAIN telling a minority how they should think just like you did with the homosexual person in the other post and AGAIN because I dare think for myself like Tutu did you smugly point out the error of my ways? That's mighty white of you chico. I know a bigot like you has a hard time accepting that a minority wouldn't be some type of hive mind and hate whitey. How dare I think for myself, right? I bes sorry bout dat boss. Hows I's sposed to thank? Also please educate this poor ignorant minority what my interests are. Sadly I'm too swarthy to pass like you you do so I'm not sure what a "pro white stance" is so perhaps you will educate me and help me avoid it in the future jefe. Since you point out you are "passing" it seems like hanging out with all those pasty liberals has had quite the influence on you. You claim you didn't discount what tutu said but you literally did it numerous times. You told her " I can hardly believe that being a woman and gay rank low on the totem pole for you. I don't think you've really thought out just how much those things define you." WTF?!!! That type of "I know what's best for you" thinking is the exact reason I have so much disdain for white liberals. You sure seem eager to adopt their narrow minded way of thinking though. You see lenlen that's why you're an asshole. Sadly I'm too swarthy to pass like you do so Out of curiosity, which one of your great great grand parents was a "person of color" allowing you to claim you're latino? You wrote: "So you're AGAIN telling a minority how they should think just like you did with the homosexual person in the other post and AGAIN because I dare think for myself like Tutu did you smugly point out the error of my ways? That's mighty white of you chico. I know a bigot like you..." and that's where I realized there might really be something wrong with you.
This is classic deflection and reversal and a lame attempt at pseudo-b.s. reverse psychology, which I've also seen you do on other threads. You're full of shit and you know it. God, I hope you know it, because otherwise you're living in some fantasy world where the rules of reality don't adhere.
I'm a bigot because I want people of color, woman and gays to have the same rights that white males take for granted?! How the fuck in your warped mind does that make any fricking sense? I recently wrote that I didn't think there were outright insane people on these boards but buddy you are making me really question that! If I'm a bigot then you're an outright Nazi! lol
I am practically the only person on this thread that has argued FOR inclusion, FOR more roles for blacks, women and gays, FOR more diversity in movies and in society... and I'm the bigot? How are you adding 2 +2 and getting 18? Are you just fricking stupid? Add something constructive to the discussion or go away.
P.S. All four of my grandparents and both my mother and father are 100% pure Latino. 100%
Wow! You still don't see it, huh? Stop taking bows for imagining you're the "only one who" blah blah blah and read your mean spirited comments. Here's an even better idea. Actually DO SOMETHING helpful and constructive for the first time in your life. I hate to break it to you but running your suck about how you're the only one championing the rights of the downtrodden on a fucking message board isn't doing anything......AT ALL. Get over yourself and stop telling everyone how they need to think and feel. Everyone has the right to their opinion and just because you are a bigoted bully you don't get to tell them their feelings are wrong. How are you unable to grasp something so simple? Are you just trolling or are you really as clueless as you seem? Now go take some more bows as you explain to everyone why their skin color or religion or sexual orientation is all that defines them no matter how sure theirs more to them than that. This thread is full of minorities saying they disagree with you and you still insist every one of them is wrong and you don't see how you're the bigot? It's pointless to try and reason with you. No worries about passing as a white liberal bully anymore amigo. You have converted fully. Peace.
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Aug 17, 2017 20:27:20 GMT
You wrote: "So you're AGAIN telling a minority how they should think just like you did with the homosexual person in the other post and AGAIN because I dare think for myself like Tutu did you smugly point out the error of my ways? That's mighty white of you chico. I know a bigot like you..." and that's where I realized there might really be something wrong with you.
This is classic deflection and reversal and a lame attempt at pseudo-b.s. reverse psychology, which I've also seen you do on other threads. You're full of shit and you know it. God, I hope you know it, because otherwise you're living in some fantasy world where the rules of reality don't adhere.
I'm a bigot because I want people of color, woman and gays to have the same rights that white males take for granted?! How the fuck in your warped mind does that make any fricking sense? I recently wrote that I didn't think there were outright insane people on these boards but buddy you are making me really question that! If I'm a bigot then you're an outright Nazi! lol
I am practically the only person on this thread that has argued FOR inclusion, FOR more roles for blacks, women and gays, FOR more diversity in movies and in society... and I'm the bigot? How are you adding 2 +2 and getting 18? Are you just fricking stupid? Add something constructive to the discussion or go away.
P.S. All four of my grandparents and both my mother and father are 100% pure Latino. 100%
Wow! You still don't see it, huh? Stop taking bows for imagining you're the "only one who" blah blah blah and read your mean spirited comments. Here's an even better idea. Actually DO SOMETHING helpful and constructive for the first time in your life. I hate to break it to you but running your suck about how you're the only one championing the rights of the downtrodden on a fucking message board isn't doing anything......AT ALL. Get over yourself and stop telling everyone how they need to think and feel. Everyone has the right to their opinion and just because you are a bigoted bully you don't get to tell them their feelings are wrong. How are you unable to grasp something so simple? Are you just trolling or are you really as clueless as you seem? Now go take some more bows as you explain to everyone why their skin color or religion or sexual orientation is all that defines them no matter how sure theirs more to them than that. This thread is full of minorities saying they disagree with you and you still insist every one of them is wrong and you don't see how you're the bigot? It's pointless to try and reason with you. No worries about passing as a white liberal bully anymore amigo. You have converted fully. Peace. So you give up and I give up. Its too bad this devolved so quickly and got ugly. Peace to you too.
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Post by Nike316 on Aug 17, 2017 20:27:48 GMT
Nah, I don't demand for Hollywood to represent me, although I don't complain either, especially when the casting really flows, as if change was always the norm rather than not. I can really appreciate seeing actors of different backgrounds hit it off when they're really in the right hands.
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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Aug 17, 2017 21:10:24 GMT
Art and culture should really be relevant to the audience it is intended for. You expect Norwegians to make art for Norwegians, Spanish for Spanish etc.
The problem we have is Hollywood is not representative of any heritage per se. It is a hodge podge, and in the last few decades has been serving for the most part, a propaganda function. Given the ownership of the media however, it is mostly leaning towards Old Testament cultural ideas though.
Basics of any society is that the society is good and the foreigner is a potential threat. Hollywood reverses that--the society is bad and the foreigner is good.
Contrast it with something like a Hammer film of the 1960s where the peaceful society is threatened either by a foreigner, or a corrupt insider (a wealthy or mentally disturbed aristocrat).
The big studio film SLEEPY HOLLOW shows the Hollywood approach perfectly--the outsider Ichabod Crane is the good guy-the society is corrupt (and irredeemable). He takes the daughter of the wealthy landowner to the big city--leaving the corrupt dying town.
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Post by TutuAnimationPrincess on Aug 17, 2017 22:52:21 GMT
This sounds like ridiculous paranoia to me. I have never believed in institutionalized prejudice and I'm not about to now. Even if there's some minute truth to this, I wouldn't live my life with it constantly in the back of my mind.
Perhaps I have been lucky but that doesn't mean I live in some sort of bubble where everything's all kittens and rainbows. Just the same, I don't feel the US or any first world Western country is running rampant right now with these problems you've mentioned. Some of these things are very nuanced issues that have little or nothing to do with prejudice. Others are things that have existed but are disappearing more every day. I also think personal responsibility has to be factored into some of these things as well, I've never lived my life with the idea that who I was born as has in any way held me back.
At this point, this is statistically impossible in Hollywood. I know sometimes it takes certain things other than talent to succeed in the business, but nothing is holding anyone back from taking advantage of those avenues.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2017 13:36:54 GMT
As a bisexual who sways mostly towards women but has dated guys in the past I don't demand it but want to see more Bisexual women and lesbians in movies and TV shows especially ones who have happy endings and aren't killed off or turned hetero whenever the so called 'right guy' comes along. It is not hard to do and if their writers can't write them adapt some lesbian romance novels or popular comic book series like 'Sunstone.' As a woman I DO demand that Hollywood represents us more 'cause we are NOT a minority and make up a large percentage of the world and it is absolutely pathetic in 2017 there is an inclusion crisis for female characters in movies especially in genres like the superhero/ comic book genre that has hundreds of female lead series including many that have higher sales than male superheroes who have their own movies that haven't even sold a fraction of what they have sold all 'cause they have penises. Men are not carpets and it is good to see people finally waking up and seeing this. Report documents "an inclusion crisis" for women in Hollywoodwww.cbsnews.com/news/diversity-in-film-inclusion-crisis-women-on-screen/
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