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Post by ThatGuy on Aug 17, 2017 21:38:01 GMT
I hope you are trolling by bringing up the Comedian, Slipknot, Storm, Iceman, Colossus, Bishop, Big Daddy, Steve Rogers, and Rorschach. Most of the comic stories these characters were in were one offs and they died in them. Slipknot was not a major superhero. Or even a hero at all. The rest were brought back to life in the same movie or in a later movie. Steve Trevor would have died between WW1's time period and when the present day stuff would have happened in Wonder Woman. So killing him off did nothing. They just avoided having to film a scene of him lying in bed like Peggy Carter. Okay let's make this more specific because the question was too broad. A major superhero (not comic book character) in a comic book movie series that was not brought back to life in the same movie or in a later movie that takes place in a time after they died before. That excludes something like a character dying, but they bring them back in a prequel. For now, the only character is Quicksilver. Hell if you are bringing up the erased future in DoFP I can bring up Stark's vision in AoU of all the Avengers dead. I see you are specialized in shifting goalposts and special pleading, does that work out in real life for you? you are very funny, does that special pleading even make sense? I will go with Logan, Big Daddy, Steve...and all the Robins that died (forgot about that)... So did I a hit some of your goalposts and win? Not moving goal posts but being specific. You sit there and call out characters that died then were brought back to life in that movie or in a later movie (in the same series). They weren't even brought back to life using perspective (example: we thought they blew up in that car, but they got out the other side). There are no major superheroes that has died and stayed dead in the middle of an ongoing series besides Quicksilver. Logan died at the end of a movie that will not have a sequel. Kick Ass was a fixed story and it followed the comic that Big Daddy died in. They found Steve in ice. And all what Robins?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2017 21:42:30 GMT
I see you are specialized in shifting goalposts and special pleading, does that work out in real life for you? you are very funny, does that special pleading even make sense? I will go with Logan, Big Daddy, Steve...and all the Robins that died (forgot about that)... So did I a hit some of your goalposts and win? Not moving goal posts but being specific. You sit there and call out characters that died then were brought back to life in that movie or in a later movie (in the same series). They weren't even brought back to life using perspective (example: we thought they blew up in that car, but they got out the other side). There are no major superheroes that has died and stayed dead in the middle of an ongoing series besides Quicksilver. Logan died at the end of a movie that will not have a sequel. Kick Ass was a fixed story and it followed the comic that Big Daddy died in. They found Steve in ice. And all what Robins? You're fighting an unwinnable battle. No matter how many times you prove Tristan wrong, he'll just keep coming at you as long as you give him attention.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2017 22:03:19 GMT
Guess you never saw X3 or Logan... Jean, Cyclops, Professor X and Wolverine all die. And both of those movies were endings. If they would have permakilled Cyclops in X-men 2 that would be different. If they would have permakilled Xavier in X1 that would be different. And before you say "Well they continued those storylines in The Wolverine and DoFP!" and they also brought Jean, Cyclops, and Xavier back in DoFP. And Logan is a one off because you know good and well they will ignore the events of that movie in the main X-men movies. Also, Jean is way more powerful than Xavier because of the Phoenix, how did he kill her in Logan... I wasn't really making any point here though in regards to how or when they were done. You said that QS was the only superhero death and that's not true. You didn't say anything about franchise endings in the post I replied to.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2017 22:06:32 GMT
Guess you never saw X3 or Logan... Jean, Cyclops, Professor X and Wolverine all die. And they pussed out and undid all of them. And they will undo Logan's death, too. Xavier and Logan will stay dead. Jackman isn't coming back and neither is Stewart. Still, I wasn't commenting on the way they were done or what they will/did lead to. He said QS was the only death and that just isn't true.
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Aug 17, 2017 22:10:32 GMT
Not moving goal posts but being specific. You sit there and call out characters that died then were brought back to life in that movie or in a later movie (in the same series). They weren't even brought back to life using perspective (example: we thought they blew up in that car, but they got out the other side). There are no major superheroes that has died and stayed dead in the middle of an ongoing series besides Quicksilver. Logan died at the end of a movie that will not have a sequel. Kick Ass was a fixed story and it followed the comic that Big Daddy died in. They found Steve in ice. And all what Robins? You're fighting an unwinnable battle. No matter how many times you prove Tristan wrong, he'll just keep coming at you as long as you give him attention. thanks for giving me so much attention despite pretending to ignore me, it's really appreciated. Speaking of "unwinnable battles", you still owe me evidence for your claims - Adjusted for inflation box office results are worthless, it means and says nothing. It's only for imbeciles and gnats. - Shakespeare never wrote an original thing. (His original plays are unoriginal too) - Alien life has been proven to exist, but intelligent alien life does not exist. - My opinions are all objective, franchise X is objectively abysmal (Transformers, MCU, MyLittle Pony are masterworks). Schumacher Batman is objectively better than Burton's and Nolan's. - I rightfully gloated and cheered on Snyder's daughter's condolence thread, because I gave my sympathies "elsewhere". - Everybody I know loves these movies, just a few idiots on the internet don't. - The MCU was the first shared universe on the big screen ever. And many more...I am waiting (for Godot).
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2017 22:17:31 GMT
And they pussed out and undid all of them. And they will undo Logan's death, too. Xavier and Logan will stay dead. Jackman isn't coming back and neither is Stewart. Still, I wasn't commenting on the way they were done or what they will/did lead to. He said QS was the only death and that just isn't true. No, they won't. If you think they won't continue to use Wolverine and Prof X after a short grieving period, I don't know what else to say to you. QS is the only death that'll stick thanks to 20th Century Fox being dicks.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2017 22:19:14 GMT
Xavier and Logan will stay dead. Jackman isn't coming back and neither is Stewart. Still, I wasn't commenting on the way they were done or what they will/did lead to. He said QS was the only death and that just isn't true. No, they won't. If you think they won't continue to use Wolverine and Prof X after a short grieving period, I don't know what else to say to you. QS is the only death that'll stick thanks to 20th Century Fox being dicks. Are you saying Jackman and Stewart will return? Or are you referring to a reboot or recasting of the roles?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2017 22:25:05 GMT
No, they won't. If you think they won't continue to use Wolverine and Prof X after a short grieving period, I don't know what else to say to you. QS is the only death that'll stick thanks to 20th Century Fox being dicks. Are you saying Jackman and Stewart will return? Or are you referring to a reboot or recasting of the roles? I'm saying that James McAvey will continue playing Xavier for a while before they recast again, so no, Xavier isn't dead and gone from the film screen. And Wolverine will reappear in the current main X-Men series by 2021. They are only dead in "Logan".
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2017 22:31:15 GMT
Are you saying Jackman and Stewart will return? Or are you referring to a reboot or recasting of the roles? I'm saying that James McAvey will continue playing Xavier for a while before they recast again, so no, Xavier isn't dead and gone from the film screen. And Wolverine will reappear in the current main X-Men series by 2021. They are only dead in "Logan". Yeah, but now we're getting into semantics. Pretty much all of these characters from Wolverine to Iron Man to Batman will have multiple incarnations in time... But to me Logan is the end of the original X Men series. If they bring the character back in some altered canon or reboot then it's not really the same as resurrecting the original on screen incarnation of Wolverine. That's all I'm saying. Likewise with Stewart's Xavier. The continuation of the prequels/pseudo reboots don't undermine his death in Logan. Theres a Han Solo movie coming out soon but that doesn't negate the death of Han in TFA.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2017 22:36:14 GMT
I'm saying that James McAvey will continue playing Xavier for a while before they recast again, so no, Xavier isn't dead and gone from the film screen. And Wolverine will reappear in the current main X-Men series by 2021. They are only dead in "Logan". Yeah, but now we're getting into semantics. Pretty much all of these characters from Wolverine to Iron Man to Batman will have multiple incarnations in time... But to me Logan is the end of the original X Men series. If they bring the character back in some altered canon or reboot then it's not really the same as resurrecting the original on screen incarnation of Wolverine. That's all I'm saying. Likewise with Stewart's Xavier. The continuation of the prequels/pseudo reboots don't undermine his death in Logan. Theres a Han Solo movie coming out soon but that doesn't negate the death of Han in TFA. Yes, and they can afford to do that BECAUSE there's a separate X-men series still ongoing. Believe me, they would not have signed off on killing Xavier and Wolverine if they didn't have the prequel/altered timeline stuff. And ThatGuy's point is that Quicksilver's death in Age of Ultron is going to stick. The MCU is going to continue many more years and Quicksilver is going to stay dead.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2017 22:41:50 GMT
Yeah, but now we're getting into semantics. Pretty much all of these characters from Wolverine to Iron Man to Batman will have multiple incarnations in time... But to me Logan is the end of the original X Men series. If they bring the character back in some altered canon or reboot then it's not really the same as resurrecting the original on screen incarnation of Wolverine. That's all I'm saying. Likewise with Stewart's Xavier. The continuation of the prequels/pseudo reboots don't undermine his death in Logan. Theres a Han Solo movie coming out soon but that doesn't negate the death of Han in TFA. Yes, and they can afford to do that BECAUSE there's a separate X-men series still ongoing. Believe me, they would not have signed off on killing Xavier and Wolverine if they didn't have the prequel/altered timeline stuff. And ThatGuy's point is that Quicksilver's death in Age of Ultron is going to stick. The MCU is going to continue many more years and Quicksilver is going to stay dead. Ok, so I agree that the finality of Logan was only allowed because of the separate ongoing movies. Very true. I'm not debating that. But they did kill Logan and Professor X. So QS is not the only superhero to die in a movie. ThatGuy never elaborated on any of those other points in the post I replied to. But if this is what he meant then it's an entirely different point. Even so, as far as I'm concerned the newer X films are reboots, even if they are technically prequels. So Wolverine and Xavier are dead in the original canon.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2017 22:59:20 GMT
Yes, and they can afford to do that BECAUSE there's a separate X-men series still ongoing. Believe me, they would not have signed off on killing Xavier and Wolverine if they didn't have the prequel/altered timeline stuff. And ThatGuy's point is that Quicksilver's death in Age of Ultron is going to stick. The MCU is going to continue many more years and Quicksilver is going to stay dead. Ok, so I agree that the finality of Logan was only allowed because of the separate ongoing movies. Very true. I'm not debating that. But they did kill Logan and Professor X. So QS is not the only superhero to die in a movie. ThatGuy never elaborated on any of those other points in the post I replied to. But if this is what he meant then it's an entirely different point. Even so, as far as I'm concerned the newer X films are reboots, even if they are technically prequels. So Wolverine and Xavier are dead in the original canon. Fair enough.
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Post by ThatGuy on Aug 18, 2017 1:28:15 GMT
And both of those movies were endings. If they would have permakilled Cyclops in X-men 2 that would be different. If they would have permakilled Xavier in X1 that would be different. And before you say "Well they continued those storylines in The Wolverine and DoFP!" and they also brought Jean, Cyclops, and Xavier back in DoFP. And Logan is a one off because you know good and well they will ignore the events of that movie in the main X-men movies. Also, Jean is way more powerful than Xavier because of the Phoenix, how did he kill her in Logan... I wasn't really making any point here though in regards to how or when they were done. You said that QS was the only superhero death and that's not true. You didn't say anything about franchise endings in the post I replied to. But you know what I was talking about. Because I could have named a bunch of shallow deaths where they just brought them back to life.
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Post by ThatGuy on Aug 18, 2017 1:37:50 GMT
I'm saying that James McAvey will continue playing Xavier for a while before they recast again, so no, Xavier isn't dead and gone from the film screen. And Wolverine will reappear in the current main X-Men series by 2021. They are only dead in "Logan". Yeah, but now we're getting into semantics. Pretty much all of these characters from Wolverine to Iron Man to Batman will have multiple incarnations in time... But to me Logan is the end of the original X Men series. If they bring the character back in some altered canon or reboot then it's not really the same as resurrecting the original on screen incarnation of Wolverine. That's all I'm saying. Likewise with Stewart's Xavier. The continuation of the prequels/pseudo reboots don't undermine his death in Logan. Theres a Han Solo movie coming out soon but that doesn't negate the death of Han in TFA. Logan was suppose to take place after the good ending of DoFP so that's McAvoy's Xavier we are watching in Logan. Remember, the sentinel future is the end of the OT. It got erased out. Laura comes about because of Wolverine's DNA they took from Weapon X in Apocalypse. Logan is pretty much an alternate future because you know they will not kill off the X-men just to line it up with that movie.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2017 2:23:38 GMT
I wasn't really making any point here though in regards to how or when they were done. You said that QS was the only superhero death and that's not true. You didn't say anything about franchise endings in the post I replied to. But you know what I was talking about. Because I could have named a bunch of shallow deaths where they just brought them back to life. Yeah, I get that. But to be fair Jean and Cyclops were meant to stay dead after X3. DoFP wasn't planned at the time. But I get your point. I would say that QS's death in AoU is still shallow too though because he was never established as anything more than a very minor supporting player.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2017 2:26:58 GMT
Yeah, but now we're getting into semantics. Pretty much all of these characters from Wolverine to Iron Man to Batman will have multiple incarnations in time... But to me Logan is the end of the original X Men series. If they bring the character back in some altered canon or reboot then it's not really the same as resurrecting the original on screen incarnation of Wolverine. That's all I'm saying. Likewise with Stewart's Xavier. The continuation of the prequels/pseudo reboots don't undermine his death in Logan. Theres a Han Solo movie coming out soon but that doesn't negate the death of Han in TFA. Logan was suppose to take place after the good ending of DoFP so that's McAvoy's Xavier we are watching in Logan. Remember, the sentinel future is the end of the OT. It got erased out. Laura comes about because of Wolverine's DNA they took from Weapon X in Apocalypse. Logan is pretty much an alternate future because you know they will not kill off the X-men just to line it up with that movie. Still, Wolverine's death in Logan still counts as a superhero death. I don't know what they'll do with the future X films but I don't consider Logan an alternate future. But then again, I don't care about the upcoming X movies featuring the younger cast.
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Post by ThatGuy on Aug 18, 2017 12:19:44 GMT
Logan was suppose to take place after the good ending of DoFP so that's McAvoy's Xavier we are watching in Logan. Remember, the sentinel future is the end of the OT. It got erased out. Laura comes about because of Wolverine's DNA they took from Weapon X in Apocalypse. Logan is pretty much an alternate future because you know they will not kill off the X-men just to line it up with that movie. Still, Wolverine's death in Logan still counts as a superhero death. I don't know what they'll do with the future X films but I don't consider Logan an alternate future. But then again, I don't care about the upcoming X movies featuring the younger cast. It counts as an ending. Again, if he died in an X-men movie then it would be different. He died at the end of his series, in a movie that is pretty much a "What if" and the star was finished with the character. Him dying at the end of Logan is the same as saying Peter died at the end of Spider-man 3 or Amazing Spider-man 2.
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Post by ThatGuy on Aug 18, 2017 12:26:47 GMT
But you know what I was talking about. Because I could have named a bunch of shallow deaths where they just brought them back to life. Yeah, I get that. But to be fair Jean and Cyclops were meant to stay dead after X3. DoFP wasn't planned at the time. But I get your point. I would say that QS's death in AoU is still shallow too though because he was never established as anything more than a very minor supporting player. They weren't meant to die at all. Cyclops only died because of scheduling conflicts. A very minor character? Yeah in the grand scheme of the series, but he was one of the leads in the movie. A movie in the middle of a series of movies that still could have used and expanded on him. Strucker was a minor character. Klaw was a minor character.
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