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Post by Arlon10 on Aug 19, 2017 12:40:00 GMT
Says who? Because I tend to be utilitarian and consequentialist in my world view, which means that I care about the result more than about the intention. In this case, I care less whether a decision was made rationally; I care more whether it makes the decision maker and involved persons happy. And if an irrational decision leads to greater happiness than a rational decision (in this case, using a world view that includes a God), then in my opinion it makes sense to go with it. As long as the happiness of people who don't believe in deities is not impaired. Simply put: If you want happiness, then sometimes being irrational is the rational decision. Sometimes. To use another analogy: In sports or music, you have to learn the basics in order to become a top performer. The really great players have mastered the basics; but sometimes they will make a move that is in no training guide, and which they make from gut feeling. And if it works, then the players will be hailed as geniuses. But if it never works, then the players will not be top players for long. On the other hand, if players only do what's in the textbook and play rationally, they will have a hard time to be remembered as one of the greatest players. But maybe that's the way they like it; and that makes them happy. In this case, it's the rational decision for them to always be rational. The fact that you didn't know this is evidence that you are lacking in the rationality department yourself.
All you're doing here is defending ignorance. you realize that right?
You're literally saying you don't care as long as it makes people happy. You aren't justifying the beliefs at all, you're just saying education doesn't matter to you.
That's not a winning argument. It's supporting ignorance. I'd rather promote human intelligence, knowledge, advancement, and to stop living with these barbaric ideas about reality, like gods, and make decisions based on actual reality instead.
I do not know much about the real life of any people on this board. I have long suspected phludowin knows more about math and science than you though. He's right, you aren't very rational. I actually admire how much you want to be rational. It's just that you aren't being very rational. It is not as simple as just wanting to be or choosing some allegiance with what you believe is rational. Allegiance can get sidetracked. Many people of faith think all they have to do is "choose" Jesus. That doesn't work very well though because they don't know how to apply it to any contemporary life decisions. There's more of an art to it and study is required. |
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Post by Terrapin Station on Aug 19, 2017 12:44:04 GMT
tpfkar I have no idea who you're talking about though. That should be obvious by now. Sure, but you can't believe the guys who start rattling on about "pay me for my posts" and who are after the kids' giblets. I'm not much for cannibalism, and I don't even like giblets when we're talking about normal fowl. |
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Post by cupcakes on Aug 19, 2017 12:48:00 GMT
tpfkar Sure, but you can't believe the guys who start rattling on about "pay me for my posts" and who are after the kids' giblets. I'm not much for cannibalism, and I don't even like giblets when we're talking about normal fowl. Sure, but you just went into wanting to bone kids, not actually eat them. |
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Post by phludowin on Aug 19, 2017 12:58:35 GMT
All you're doing here is defending ignorance. you realize that right? You're literally saying you don't care as long as it makes people happy. Exactly. I realize that to some people, happiness matters more than education. They prefer being happy and ignorant than unhappy and educated. Who am I to tell them they are wrong? Happiness is a perfectly valid justification. And where did I say that education doesn't matter to me? I didn't. But this again confirmed that you might be lacking in the rationality department; you seem to see things only in black or white; or seeing things that aren't there. "Actual reality", to humans, is always subjective. Do you know the reality of other people? My not too bold guess is that you don't. Yet you want to tell other people what is "actual reality"? That's very arrogant, and therefore irrational. |
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Post by nausea on Aug 19, 2017 13:31:11 GMT
i work for the one that wears the crown, the lorda dn savior Jesus Christ.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Aug 19, 2017 15:12:12 GMT
I do not know much about the real life of any people on this board. I have long suspected phludowin knows more about math and science than you though. He's right, you aren't very rational. I actually admire how much you want to be rational. It's just that you aren't being very rational. It is not as simple as just wanting to be or choosing some allegiance with what you believe is rational. Allegiance can get sidetracked. Many people of faith think all they have to do is "choose" Jesus. That doesn't work very well though because they don't know how to apply it to any contemporary life decisions. There's more of an art to it and study is required. Alright, well first stop pretending you know me.
Second, name a rational reason to think a god exists.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Aug 19, 2017 15:13:54 GMT
All you're doing here is defending ignorance. you realize that right? You're literally saying you don't care as long as it makes people happy. Exactly. I realize that to some people, happiness matters more than education. They prefer being happy and ignorant than unhappy and educated. Who am I to tell them they are wrong? Happiness is a perfectly valid justification. And where did I say that education doesn't matter to me? I didn't. But this again confirmed that you might be lacking in the rationality department; you seem to see things only in black or white; or seeing things that aren't there. "Actual reality", to humans, is always subjective. Do you know the reality of other people? My not too bold guess is that you don't. Yet you want to tell other people what is "actual reality"? That's very arrogant, and therefore irrational. You haven't justified the belief,
You're just defending ignorance is all.
How happy ignorance makes people has absolutely nothing to do with what we're discussing, so I don't know why you're bringing it up.
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Post by Arlon10 on Aug 19, 2017 16:11:33 GMT
I do not know much about the real life of any people on this board. I have long suspected phludowin knows more about math and science than you though. He's right, you aren't very rational. I actually admire how much you want to be rational. It's just that you aren't being very rational. It is not as simple as just wanting to be or choosing some allegiance with what you believe is rational. Allegiance can get sidetracked. Many people of faith think all they have to do is "choose" Jesus. That doesn't work very well though because they don't know how to apply it to any contemporary life decisions. There's more of an art to it and study is required. Alright, well first stop pretending you know me.
Second, name a rational reason to think a god exists.
First prove you exist. I doubt anyone in real life could possibly be as stupid as you pretend to be. |
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Post by NJtoTX on Aug 19, 2017 16:24:28 GMT
i work for the one that wears the crown, the lorda dn savior Jesus Christ.  |
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Aug 19, 2017 17:51:11 GMT
Alright, well first stop pretending you know me.
Second, name a rational reason to think a god exists.
First prove you exist. I doubt anyone in real life could possibly be as stupid as you pretend to be. Just you and I typing is more evidence alone that I exist than anything anybody has presented for a god.
Can you present anything for a god that is as good as you and I typing?
Also what does proving I exist have to do with justifying that a god does?
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Post by phludowin on Aug 19, 2017 18:25:41 GMT
You haven't justified the belief I don't have to. I don't believe in deities. But if believers say that they believe because it makes them happy, then it's ok by me. We are discussing why people believe that there is a God. If it makes them happy, that's a valid reason for me. |
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Aug 19, 2017 18:38:29 GMT
You haven't justified the belief I don't have to. I don't believe in deities. But if believers say that they believe because it makes them happy, then it's ok by me. We are discussing why people believe that there is a God. If it makes them happy, that's a valid reason for me. And furthermore, even if you did believe in deities, you still wouldn't have to justify it, to him or anyone else. While I'm here, anything new on your Barcelona predictions yet? |
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Aug 19, 2017 19:17:41 GMT
You haven't justified the belief I don't have to. I don't believe in deities. But if believers say that they believe because it makes them happy, then it's ok by me. We are discussing why people believe that there is a God. If it makes them happy, that's a valid reason for me. No we're discussing that there's nothing convincing about it, not why people believe it. And no being happy is not a valid reason to conclude something is true. At all. You just justified rape, being in the kkk, doing meth, and anything else that people say makes them happy. Being happy has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not something is true or justifying participating in it.
And the thread topic is that there is nothing convincing about the existence of a god. I don't know why you're talking about people being happy at all.
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Post by Arlon10 on Aug 19, 2017 19:40:18 GMT
First prove you exist. I doubt anyone in real life could possibly be as stupid as you pretend to be. Just you and I typing is more evidence alone that I exist than anything anybody has presented for a god.
Can you present anything for a god that is as good as you and I typing?
Also what does proving I exist have to do with justifying that a god does?
One way to look at it is in regard to things that science is utterly useless to even address, much less solve. When everyone agrees what the problem is, science can often be of some help at least. However the problem with most issues in society is that there is no agreement what the problem is. That's what makes them issues in the first place. If everyone agreed we need more raincoats then science can start turning out raincoats on a production line. Suppose some people decide we don't need more raincoats and everyone should just stay inside when rains? What good is science now? What approach to the problem is most "rational" now? The people who want to stay inside might want more candles, don't forget that. Most problems in this world are totally beyond your hopelessly shallow understanding. Your attitude fails to address real problems, the actual issues. You're stuck on elementary puzzles any child could solve. There are other arts you refuse to study. You then are a big part of the problem. Religion is necessary to help people decide on ultimate approaches and goals, whether to go out in the rain at all. Science is totally useless for that, and you are totally wrong not to see it. You need to quit infecting people with your disease and allow the study of some god of ultimate purposes. That is just one god that exists obviously to millions of people. There is another. An intelligent designer is an issue in science, not religion. It's the correct answer to one of those elementary puzzles, how did life originally arise on a previously molten planet? |
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Aug 19, 2017 19:59:27 GMT
Just you and I typing is more evidence alone that I exist than anything anybody has presented for a god.
Can you present anything for a god that is as good as you and I typing?
Also what does proving I exist have to do with justifying that a god does?
One way to look at it is in regard to things that science is utterly useless to even address, Which is exactly why there's nothing convincing about it. That isn't an argument for it you just made, it's an argument against it. |
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Aug 19, 2017 20:45:52 GMT
One way to look at it is in regard to things that science is utterly useless to even address, Which is exactly why there's nothing convincing about it. That isn't an argument for it you just made, it's an argument against it. Did you come here for an argument? Or did you come here to teach? |
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Post by Arlon10 on Aug 19, 2017 20:45:52 GMT
One way to look at it is in regard to things that science is utterly useless to even address, Which is exactly why there's nothing convincing about it. That isn't an argument for it you just made, it's an argument against it. If you believe I just proved unseen forces in nature and society do not exist you are as mistaken as you have ever been, which is totally. If you've confused that with the issue in science then you are mistaken on that as well. |
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Post by phludowin on Aug 19, 2017 20:58:04 GMT
we're discussing that there's nothing convincing about it, not why people believe it. Maybe not convincing for you and me, but for believers. As evidenced on this thread. And if the believers' beliefs make them happy and are convincing to them, there is no reason to do anything against them. No I didn't. Learn to read. Then you'd see that I wrote that being happy is a justification for one's beliefs, as long as it does not impact others. So what? Again: Not for you and me, but maybe for others. Because I believe that happiness is a valid goal in life. |
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Aug 19, 2017 21:39:33 GMT
Which is exactly why there's nothing convincing about it. That isn't an argument for it you just made, it's an argument against it. Did you come here for an argument? Or did you come here to teach? Just to question really. I'm not aware of any convincing demonstration or evidence that there is a god, and if you read through a couple of these responses people want to discuss whether it makes people happy or whether I can prove I exist, etc, things that don't have anything to do with the question being asked. I'm not sure why, but asking this question always seems to create tangents and side stories instead of ever being answered honestly, and I think the honest answer is there is no legitimate reason to think there is a god. |
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Aug 19, 2017 21:41:13 GMT
Which is exactly why there's nothing convincing about it. That isn't an argument for it you just made, it's an argument against it. If you believe I just proved unseen forces in nature and society do not exist you are as mistaken as you have ever been, which is totally. If you've confused that with the issue in science then you are mistaken on that as well. I did neither.
I'm just reiterating that you've provided no convincing demonstration or argument for a god. If you can't that's fine, but just say you can't. I don't know why we have to go off on tangent discussions that aren't relative to the question being asked.
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