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Post by ArArArchStanton on Aug 17, 2017 20:40:23 GMT
I've never found the idea convincing, and most of the arguments I hear honestly don't really seem to go anywhere, so I'd like to ask why anybody accepts it as true?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2017 20:42:17 GMT
In the past, I would think that people considered it an intuitive idea, which was heavily reinforced by society. Nowadays, I think that most people remain 'convinced' out of fear.
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Post by gadreel on Aug 17, 2017 20:56:54 GMT
I've never found the idea convincing, and most of the arguments I hear honestly don't really seem to go anywhere, so I'd like to ask why anybody accepts it as true? I am not convinced there is a God, any one who is honest with themselves will admit a level of agnosticism. I do, however, choose to interpret the universe as a construct made by an intelligence. |
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Aug 17, 2017 21:04:44 GMT
I've never found the idea convincing, and most of the arguments I hear honestly don't really seem to go anywhere, so I'd like to ask why anybody accepts it as true? I am not convinced there is a God, any one who is honest with themselves will admit a level of agnosticism. I do, however, choose to interpret the universe as a construct made by an intelligence. Ok fair enough, but what makes you think it is a construct made by an intelligence? |
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Post by gadreel on Aug 17, 2017 21:11:03 GMT
I am not convinced there is a God, any one who is honest with themselves will admit a level of agnosticism. I do, however, choose to interpret the universe as a construct made by an intelligence. Ok fair enough, but what makes you think it is a construct made by an intelligence? Long story really, but the short of it is that it simply makes more sense to me. Funnily enough a few respected scientists and philosophers are suggesting we might be living in a simulation, I am not sure I agree, but technically my stance would fit there too. |
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Aug 17, 2017 21:22:33 GMT
In the past, I would think that people considered it an intuitive idea, which was heavily reinforced by society. Nowadays, I think that most people remain 'convinced' out of fear. I think a surprising number of people who claim to believe don't actually believe it. As evidence I'll reference my grandfather who went to church his entire life, didn't promote it much, but then at the end of his life admitted he never believed it. I know 1 person doesn't equal that it's the same with most but I would wager there are plenty just like him. |
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Aug 17, 2017 21:24:54 GMT
Ok fair enough, but what makes you think it is a construct made by an intelligence? Long story really, but the short of it is that it simply makes more sense to me. Funnily enough a few respected scientists and philosophers are suggesting we might be living in a simulation, I am not sure I agree, but technically my stance would fit there too. That's interesting regarding the simulation, but that's not exactly what people mean by a god. If we found out we were living in a simulation some guy named fred made in his basement sometime in the future, I'd have trouble buying that Christians or muslims would accept that this was the same god they've been talking about the entire time.
In what was does it make more sense to you though? I honestly don't understand, and mostly because there is a perfectly sensible way to understand how it could be the way it is perfectly naturally.
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Post by gadreel on Aug 17, 2017 21:41:05 GMT
Long story really, but the short of it is that it simply makes more sense to me. Funnily enough a few respected scientists and philosophers are suggesting we might be living in a simulation, I am not sure I agree, but technically my stance would fit there too. That's interesting regarding the simulation, but that's not exactly what people mean by a god. If we found out we were living in a simulation some guy named fred made in his basement sometime in the future, I'd have trouble buying that Christians or muslims would accept that this was the same god they've been talking about the entire time.
In what was does it make more sense to you though? I honestly don't understand, and mostly because there is a perfectly sensible way to understand how it could be the way it is perfectly naturally.
True, but in terms of metaphysics, the entity creating the simulation would still be the source, the 'I am' if you like of creation. How long do you have?? I am not really sure how to explain it, but it is a combination of religious philosophy I have read and simply my feelings, look I could well be wrong which is why I shy away from conversations about the proof of God, but at the end of the day the way I interpret the universe is that they initial influx of energy (the big bang or the I am) is best described as an intentional action rather than a random one. At the end of the day I have no proof or anything it just makes more sense to me. Which is of course why I lean away from "this is the truth" or any declarations of how it is, the universe could well be the result of natural random phenomenon and it would not be different in any way, I simply prefer the idea that it was an intentional starting point. |
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Aug 17, 2017 21:44:49 GMT
I've never found the idea convincing, and most of the arguments I hear honestly don't really seem to go anywhere, so I'd like to ask why anybody accepts it as true? It doesn't matter if you find the idea convincing.
I'm not sure how anyone explaining their beliefs would convince you but you should just assume that they have sufficient conviction to believe something you can't believe.
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Post by OpiateOfTheMasses on Aug 17, 2017 21:56:45 GMT
Childhood indoctrination.
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Post by gadreel on Aug 17, 2017 22:00:59 GMT
Childhood indoctrination. You should try and break out of that, it will not be doing you any good. |
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Post by camimac on Aug 17, 2017 22:35:25 GMT
I for one am convinced because there is a God.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Aug 17, 2017 22:42:56 GMT
I just want to clarify, you are aware that the big bang was not the origin of the universe correct? The big bang is an expansion of energy that already existed. There are several possibilities of what might have occurred prior to that including a different temporal state (and what I mean by that is similar to how time become infinite at the speed of light. In the case of an infinity compressed universe the effect of time may be the inverse of infinite and effectively not exist, meaning there was no beginning, and after the expansion of that matter time began to have an effect on observations made from the inside of that universe), and then there is the possibility of quantum fluctuation which is the generation of energy through nothing but the effects of gravity compressing a pure vacuum.
There are additional options but both of those are viable and don't require any sort of intelligence to operate and produce the universe we see around us. So I realize you are not proclaiming truth in what you say, but I'm not sure why you would elect to think an intelligence is more likely when that would require explaining where such an intelligence came from.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Aug 17, 2017 22:43:22 GMT
I for one am convinced because there is a God. according to what? how did you discover this? |
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Aug 17, 2017 22:46:05 GMT
I've never found the idea convincing, and most of the arguments I hear honestly don't really seem to go anywhere, so I'd like to ask why anybody accepts it as true? It doesn't matter if you find the idea convincing.
I'm not sure how anyone explaining their beliefs would convince you but you should just assume that they have sufficient conviction to believe something you can't believe.
sufficient conviction doesn't make it true. You just defined why I should accept the Nazi's. I mean they had sufficient conviction. Or how about the acts of terrorists. They have sufficient conviction.
What I am talking about it learning about how the world actually works so that we can make decisions based on the reality of the world we live in, not a fantasy people want to create.
It's not enough to say I should just accept it simply because they choose to believe it. If you can't justify that there is sufficient reason to believe it, you simply shouldn't believe it.
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Post by Terrapin Station on Aug 17, 2017 22:48:55 GMT
I've never found the idea convincing, and most of the arguments I hear honestly don't really seem to go anywhere, so I'd like to ask why anybody accepts it as true? I am not convinced there is a God, any one who is honest with themselves will admit a level of agnosticism. I do, however, choose to interpret the universe as a construct made by an intelligence. When I'm honest with myself, I haven't the slightest doubt that there is no God, and that the very idea of one is completely absurd. I'd like there to be a God (although with different ethics than what's portrayed in the Bible), but I'd like every woman to be in love with me, and for you all to make me your king, too. I don't believe that any of that stuff will happen just because I want it to. |
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Post by camimac on Aug 17, 2017 22:50:32 GMT
I for one am convinced because there is a God. according to what? how did you discover this? All I'm going to say is that things have happened in my life, for which I know the only explanation is God. |
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Post by lowtacks86 on Aug 17, 2017 22:56:06 GMT
Mostly childhood indoctrination
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Aug 17, 2017 23:03:50 GMT
All I'm going to say is that things have happened in my life, for which I know the only explanation is God. And how do you know a god is the only possible explanation? Have you determined there is no other possible explanation?
Do you mean you don't have an explanation?
Because not having an explanation doesn't mean god is the explanation.
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Post by gadreel on Aug 17, 2017 23:04:03 GMT
I am not convinced there is a God, any one who is honest with themselves will admit a level of agnosticism. I do, however, choose to interpret the universe as a construct made by an intelligence. When I'm honest with myself, I haven't the slightest doubt that there is no God, and that the very idea of one is completely absurd. I'd like there to be a God (although with different ethics than what's portrayed in the Bible), but I'd like every woman to be in love with me, and for you all to make me your king, too. I don't believe that any of that stuff will happen just because I want it to. Therefore you must have proof that there is no God, that would be the only way I can think of to be sure. |
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