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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Aug 25, 2017 10:54:25 GMT
The argument regarding Dorne is the reason the Dorne story sucked on the show.
The book version is way better.
In the show, Doran and his son were the only ones OK with the marriage. Oberyn was most definitely in KL to be close to his enemies.
In the book, Dorne, the Martells, and Lannisters had not buried the hatchet. Dorne had a lot of plans in place, from assassinating Myrcella, to usurping Tommen and making her queen, to helping Dany win the Iron Throne, to outright civil war with Westeros.
They were never going to forget and the show cheated them by introducing them as crazy & dangerous when in reality they were cowardly and weak and utterly pointless except as a tool to kill Myrcella.
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The Lost One
Junior Member
@lostkiera
Posts: 2,678
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Post by The Lost One on Aug 25, 2017 12:11:52 GMT
Eh I quite liked the Dorne plot in the show. Oberyn was a very likeable character and it was fun watching Jaime and Bronn taking on the Sand Snakes.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Aug 25, 2017 13:15:11 GMT
Oberen wasn't the Dorne plot.
He was a well developed character that could have been a great representation for conflict Dorne has with the rest of the 7 Kingdoms...As he is in the books.
Dorne, because of its late start and continued disconnect from the rest of the GoT universe was never developed except as a reason for the prophecy against Cersei to be fulfilled.
It is now a forgotten memory simply because the Sand Snakes are gone despite them having a full army and complete access to a barren - The Stormlands.
Of course, they did the same thing with Highgarden, but the Tyrells played a much larger role overall in the story.
Generally speaking, the districts are interwoven between the 4 great ones.
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Post by bluerisk on Aug 25, 2017 14:27:25 GMT
It was Cercei. She set the causa prima, and thus it is irrelevant how Tywin or Oberyn exploited her path. You're a hating piece of shit, Bluerisk, nothing more. You choose your responsible as you want them. Cerei killed Myrcella. Period. You're just biased towards ths crazy nutjob with daddy issues. And she is a whore: "...and probably moonboy for all I know." In the book she fucks with half of King's Landing. Everytime she needs a service or favour.
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Post by pk9 on Aug 25, 2017 16:36:19 GMT
The S5 Dorne plot is a nonsensical mess but the basis of it is in Bronn's statement that "the Dornish are crazy". When Cersei learned of Tyrion's plan, her main argument was that these people loathed the Lannisters. Therein lies the problem with your argument. The people who "loathed" the Lannisters weren't the ones who killed Myrcella. The ones with personal reasons to hate the Lannisters were the family of Elia Martell: Oberyn and Doran. But neither of them were planning to do anything bad to Myrcella. If Ellaria had any antipathy to the Lannisters prior to arriving in KL, it was only secondhand from Oberyn. She wasn't around when Elia was killed. Ellaria only went nuts after Oberyn was killed. She hated the Lannisters because they killed Oberyn, not Elia. But it was completely unjustified since it was a trial by combat, and it Oberyn's choice to be a champion, and it was Oberyn's stupidity that got him killed.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Aug 26, 2017 6:13:05 GMT
The S5 Dorne plot is a nonsensical mess but the basis of it is in Bronn's statement that "the Dornish are crazy". When Cersei learned of Tyrion's plan, her main argument was that these people loathed the Lannisters. Therein lies the problem with your argument. The people who "loathed" the Lannisters weren't the ones who killed Myrcella. You're right and no satisfactory argument can be made after the S5 Dorne plot was so badly messed up. Ellaria's behaviour in the show is out of character and the Martells are nice, making Tyrion right to trust them, although he couldn't really know. All we are left with is that Myrcella was sent to a country full of crazy people, and therefore the chances she got in the clutches of some of them was higher than anywhere else. It's not very good but it's all that can save the story. The book plot, on the other hand, does show a Martell family intent on revenge, with a daughter of the prince actively using the dumb Sand Snakes to further her own plans and using Myrcella to do so, bringing her in danger while Ellaria is the one defending peace. This at least, made Cersei right in fearing the whole thing more than Tyrion did but the show runners decided to give Ellaria the driving role (because they wanted to use Indira Varma) in spite of the nonsense it brought into the story. So in a way, D&D killed Myrcella. I hope Cersei blows them up too. One last word must be said in defence of Tyrion's plan: he wasn't wrong about the risk Myrcella faced in King's Landing and Cersei herself appears to have accepted his argument. She was torn between her fear of both situations and let it happen in hope it would work out.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Aug 26, 2017 11:55:38 GMT
The S5 Dorne plot is a nonsensical mess but the basis of it is in Bronn's statement that "the Dornish are crazy". When Cersei learned of Tyrion's plan, her main argument was that these people loathed the Lannisters. Therein lies the problem with your argument. The people who "loathed" the Lannisters weren't the ones who killed Myrcella. The ones with personal reasons to hate the Lannisters were the family of Elia Martell: Oberyn and Doran. But neither of them were planning to do anything bad to Myrcella. If Ellaria had any antipathy to the Lannisters prior to arriving in KL, it was only secondhand from Oberyn. She wasn't around when Elia was killed. Ellaria only went nuts after Oberyn was killed. She hated the Lannisters because they killed Oberyn, not Elia. But it was completely unjustified since it was a trial by combat, and it Oberyn's choice to be a champion, and it was Oberyn's stupidity that got him killed. This is, again, the reason the Dorne plot sucks on the show. Elia's murder was very much a shared tragedy for the whole kingdom, so it was not just an issue of a family vendetta. The whole kingdom despised the Lannisters and the show didn;t latch onto that until they decided to kill off the remaining Martells in order to keep the memory of the Martells and to show that Dorne was not just going to sit there and do nothing...& then they did nothing but sit there. I digress... The whole reason Tyrion used Myrcella was to prevent Dorne from joining forces with some other kingdom against them, so it makes perfect sense that, once the politics are removed, the people would react from their true feelings rather than from the shrewder Martell brothers.
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