Films Outside The DCEU Is Just Creative Laziness

Aug 25, 2017 3:07:55 GMT agentblue said:

Aug 25, 2017 2:59:22 GMT ArArArchStanton said:

Or CW for that matter.

I actually like the Arrowverse so I dont agree with that. 

Well don't forget about Supergirl.  Anyway I more referring to how they're irrelevant to the DCU.  It's just a bad decision, and Marvel not only produces great shows, but is smart to include them.  It would be weird if they hadn't.

But also, why did you bring up a 4th tier MCU show that isn't supposed to be any significant part of the whole? I'm honestly not even planning on watching it and I'm as big of an MCU fan as it gets. I own the damn tie in comics. So it was just weird you skipped over Daredevil, or Jessica Jones, or last years Shield which was bad ass btw, and those are relevant to the MCU.

Aug 25, 2017 16:43:49 GMT faustus5 said:

Aug 25, 2017 2:03:26 GMT ArArArchStanton said:

Seriously, are you saying they aren't creative enough to set a story in a connected universe? If that's not what you're saying then what's the problem?

The issue isn't creativity. It is artistic freedom.

You're confusing artistic freedom with being too lazy to care about continuity.

They aren't making an artistic choice here.  They just aren't trying to maintain continuity.  They want you to buy that this is some bold decision they've made, when all they've done is give up.  I mean it would be great to go into work, not do my job, and then have my employer still pay me for being productively creative.

Aug 26, 2017 12:26:15 GMT faustus5 said:

Aug 25, 2017 16:46:08 GMT ArArArchStanton said:

You're confusing artistic freedom with being too lazy to care about continuity.

They aren't making an artistic choice here.  They just aren't trying to maintain continuity.  They want you to buy that this is some bold decision they've made, when all they've done is give up.  I mean it would be great to go into work, not do my job, and then have my employer still pay me for being productively creative.

The assumption you are making here is that artists are obligated to go with plans cooked up by studio executives who care nothing about creativity or art, and that if artists aren't interested in those plans and want to go their own way, it means they are "giving up". This is complete and utter bullshit. Comic book writers have historically constantly broken out of established continuities to create their own stand-alone stories. The movies should be no different.

No, I'm saying an artist can make a plan and work with other artists to create a larger collaborative vision, leaving them plenty of room to be creative with their own project.

One of the most creative things you can do is weave a story into an existing framework, so the only bullshit is acting like standalone films represent a higher form of creativity.

All DC is doing with any standalones is telling you they don't care to make the effort of having somebody like a Whedon lead an effort like Feige has done.  They tried with Snyder, but giving up and doing standalones is just that, it's giving up.

Listen, I'm sincerely just being honest about what's happening because as an artist it upsets me to see lack of effort sold to dedicated fans, and it is a little funny how quickly some DC Fans got outraged over statements about actual facts.  For instance, I remember on the IMDB boards I asked one day about the news that Batman was going to be in the title of what everybody thought was MOS2 at the time.  All I heard was absolute denial that Batman was a major character, that it was a Man of Steel movie with some Batman, and I was a troll for brining it up.  I don't know why there was such heated denial, but just months later were perfectly fine with it all of a sudden, because they care about liking the movie more than they care about the movie.  I care about the movie, how it's put together, the larger vision, etc.  WB doesn't care about their product which is why it's been a mess.  They just know you care about liking it enough to buy into they give you.  And I find that offensive on their part.

Aug 26, 2017 14:55:03 GMT faustus5 said:

Aug 26, 2017 13:30:05 GMT ArArArchStanton said:

No, I'm saying an artist can make a plan and work with other artists to create a larger collaborative vision, leaving them plenty of room to be creative with their own project.

An artist can also think up their own stories and approaches to characters instead of hitching their wagon to a corporate plan. That's what artists with independent creative vision prefer to do.

Yep, and that's ignoring any sense of continuity, like I said. You're acting like independent vision is more creative, and it isn't. You can be extremely creative finding ways to expand an existing framework.

Also, it's not a corporate plan, it's a collective vision that is still artistic and creative. It's weird that you're calling it a corporate plan as though the MCU for instance isn't being designed by artists.

Aug 26, 2017 19:38:59 GMT faustus5 said:

Aug 26, 2017 15:03:59 GMT ArArArchStanton said:

Yep, and that's ignoring any sense of continuity, like I said.

So fucking what? No artist has any obligation to follow or give the slightest shit about a corporate plan for a shared universe. Comic book artists create stand alone, original stories unconnected to official continuities all the time. You have no rational case for this pathetic whining.

You're acting like independent vision is more creative, and it isn't.

Yes, it is. Anyone with any sort of artistic IQ knows this.

Also, it's not a corporate plan, it's a collective vision that is still artistic and creative.

There is no evidence whatsoever that the scheme for a DC shared universe in film was ever anything but the dream of studio executives with one plan and one plan only: making money.

That's fine. I've enjoyed the results more than most so far, faults and all. I'm just not going to throw an absurd tantrum over the idea that the movies are doing what the comics have always done: creating stand alone content unconnected to the shared universe.

So they aren't trying, that's what.  They aren't making an effort to have independent films, they just aren't making effort to maintain continuity.  It's decision by indecision so stop giving them credit for it.

And no, independent efforts are not more artistic by default, ask any architect who makes a career out of adding to or refurbishing older buildings, ask any musical artist who their inspirations were.  Anybody with a design IQ knows this. For some reason you have this idea that creativity can only be maximized independently and that just isn't true.  Creativity is fundamental to referencing our experience around us.

I agree that the DC shared universe is nothing but a corporate scheme.  That's why it sucks.  The MCU vision is the opposite, a truly creative endeavor made by artists, and DC has the opportunity to get the creative input of it's talent writers on all of the aspects of the DCU to put together a strong collective vision.  But they are wasting the opportunity.