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Post by Aj_June on Aug 26, 2017 13:06:10 GMT
I was browsing another religious forum today and encountered Saint Frankenstein. For those who don't remember, Saint Frankenstein was an old poster here. A mixed race person who identified with different gender than she (now he) was born and remained ever so confused about his religion. He was born catholic but would often get disgusted by the issue of homophobia and transphobia and leave his birth religion. He started identifying as pagan (polytheist) and then accepted Shakta/Tantra form of Hinduism. But he would get drawn to Catholicism again and again. This pretty much indicates the person is turned off not by core catholic values but behaviour of certain people in society. The fellow had some interesting conversations with PD and he was also rather friendly with Erjen (who also liked the person to some extent). I just saw the poster on another board currently identifying as Hindu / Olympianism (Greco-Roman polytheism). This sort of felt funny but I kind of feel sad for people who are not able to find peace with religion. In my personal view most religions have some nice elements as well as some flaws in them. People should try to reconcile their religion and come to terms with it or if they believe their differences are irreconcilable then they should develop their own religion but not suffer from not being able to identify with one religion.
Have you ever suffered from religious identity conflict? This is an open question to anyone. Even those who are atheists now and those religious people who may not be totally satisfied with their birth religion or adopted religion . The question is also for atheists who may not be totally happy with atheism.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Aug 26, 2017 14:17:21 GMT
Yes.
As I have studied more and more I have changed my views from different times in my life, going from the religion of my parents to a somewhat agnostic in High School & College, the the fairly confident Christian I am today.
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Post by phludowin on Aug 26, 2017 15:04:03 GMT
I was raised Catholic, and started having problems with the Christian faith when I was a teenager. I then stopped calling myself Christian and officially left the Church when I was 20. But I did not have a new faith then and didn't call myself atheist yet.
This changed when I got to know two things: Occam's Razor, and the Libet experiments. This paved my way to atheism.
But I wouldn't say I have a religious identity. I may have "religious" beliefs, but since beliefs can be adjusted in light of new evidence, I don't know if they can be called "identity".
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Aug 26, 2017 15:38:49 GMT
I was browsing another religious forum today and encountered Saint Frankenstein. For those who don't remember, Saint Frankenstein was an old poster here. A mixed race person who identified with different gender than she (now he) was born and remained ever so confused about his religion. He was born catholic but would often get disgusted by the issue of homophobia and transphobia and leave his birth religion. He started identifying as pagan (polytheist) and then accepted Shakta/Tantra form of Hinduism. But he would get drawn to Catholicism again and again. This pretty much indicates the person is turned off not by core catholic values but behaviour of certain people in society. The fellow had some interesting conversations with PD and he was also rather friendly with Erjen (who also liked the person to some extent). I just saw the poster on another board currently identifying as Hindu / Olympianism (Greco-Roman polytheism). This sort of felt funny but I kind of feel sad for people who are not able to find peace with religion. In my personal view most religions have some nice elements as well as some flaws in them. People should try to reconcile their religion and come to terms with it or if they believe their differences are irreconcilable then they should develop their own religion but not suffer from not being able to identify with one religion. Have you ever suffered from religious identity conflict? This is an open question to anyone. Even those who are atheists now and those religious people who may not be totally satisfied with their birth religion or adopted religion . The question is also for atheists who may not be totally happy with atheism. Hi, AJ, great to see you posting on this board again! Yes, I went through a period of religious identity conflict. I became disenchanted with the Southern Baptist teachings I grew up with, and made the huge-at-the-time conversion to being a Lutheran. That church was far more dignified, and played classical music (Bach, et al) on an amazing true tracker-action pipe organ. So different from the holy-roller 'praise' music of the Southern Baptists, plus the members seemed to be more normal, less obsessed with religion being the be-all and end-all of their lives. They seemed to keep it in a more realistic perspective; in contrast, the SB's seemed almost cultish. But then I was in college at the time, and exposed to the horrors (through art history) of the Christian crusades, then exposed to the vastly different art and religions of the East. I flirted for a time with Buddhism, and still wear a lovely carved jade Buddha pendant. Buddhism seemed to be the most non-violent of the organized religions. But then I married an agnostic atheist who agreed that we could each have our own beliefs/ non-beliefs; no conversion attempts on either side. His Secular Humanist ethics and values drove home to me that being a decent human being didn't depend on having a religion at its core. Then, his support of me through cancer treatment was based in science and fact, rather than prayer and false hope. I started to embrace just what science could prove through the scientific method, and any religious beliefs I had were pretty much gone. He passed away a few years later, a victim of a terminal illness that he was actually fascinated with, and wished he had enough time left to go back to school and study it. After his death, I developed a friendship with someone who was a true atheist, and I never looked back. Everything made sense at that point; no plan, no intelligent design, just natural law and evolution. And my atheist friend is one of the most compassionate Secular Humanists I've ever known. All religions have their positive points and negative points; I have read up on Jainism and it is an interesting religion. But I am clearly an atheist and content with having questions about the universe that science has yet to explain. I'd rather have questions and uncertainty than false facts that masquerade as certainties. And religion is so easily perverted and used to manipulate people. Just my views...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2017 16:31:52 GMT
Only during my Christianity.
Since then, nope.
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Post by 🌵 on Aug 26, 2017 17:40:35 GMT
I remember Saint Frankenstein. He posted on the Soapbox as well for a while. As far as I recall, he'd be an anarchist one day and a fascist/neo-Nazi the next, so he seemed to be confused about more than just religion.
Anyway, I've never been religious. I wasn't born into a religious family, so I didn't have any religious convictions as a kid, and growing up I never encountered a good reason to change my mind. The only notable change is that over the last year or so I've drifted to a more agnostic/skeptical position whereas before I would have outright denied the existence of god.
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Aug 26, 2017 17:55:02 GMT
Frank was one of the first posters I ever talked with on the RFS board. I liked talking with him. Hell, I liked talking with PD too, even if we sharply disagreed.
To answer your question, I've been confused a lot of times about my religious identity, and I'm still constantly questioning, but I haven't found anything yet that makes more sense to me than what I have. I suppose not knowing (or claiming to know) all the answers keeps it from becoming a bore.
Good thread, Aj. Hopefully geode will see it and have second thoughts about bailing out.
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Post by Terrapin Station on Aug 26, 2017 17:59:56 GMT
I'm an atheist, I've always been an atheist (I was actually raised with almost zero exposure to religion/religious ideas until I was in my mid-teens), and I've never been "confused" about it.
The closest you could say I've come to being "confused" is that I have some affinity for both LaVeyan Satanism and Zen Buddhism--the latter more in its "pop" sense. But neither is really a religion on many accounts--there's no deity, for example, and there is enough that I disagree with when it comes to both that I'd avoid identifying myself as a follower of either.
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Post by johnblutarsky on Aug 26, 2017 18:11:00 GMT
Only during my Christianity. Since then, nope. Ditto.
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Post by THawk on Aug 26, 2017 23:26:42 GMT
I'm a Christian, but have not found a single denomination or church that really fits me. I don't agree with many of the conservative beliefs, but then others fall into the opposite extreme. It is a curious thing to feel somewhat alone when your general religion is for now, numerically, the most widespread on the planet...but that is my situation.
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Post by Aj_June on Aug 29, 2017 11:32:36 GMT
I remember Saint Frankenstein. He posted on the Soapbox as well for a while. As far as I recall, he'd be an anarchist one day and a fascist/neo-Nazi the next, so he seemed to be confused about more than just religion. Anyway, I've never been religious. I wasn't born into a religious family, so I didn't have any religious convictions as a kid, and growing up I never encountered a good reason to change my mind. The only notable change is that over the last year or so I've drifted to a more agnostic/skeptical position whereas before I would have outright denied the existence of god. Lol...I totally believe that saint identified as neo-Nazi as he is quite impulsive. But he has a rather good heart so he wouldn't keep on identifying as a fascist for long. The same with me. I have never been religious. I had an uncle who explained me evolution and big bang theory when I was like 5 or 6. I was and to some extent still am an anti-Muslim person but I have cut back myself on my anti-Muslim ways.
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Post by Aj_June on Aug 29, 2017 11:40:10 GMT
I was browsing another religious forum today and encountered Saint Frankenstein. For those who don't remember, Saint Frankenstein was an old poster here. A mixed race person who identified with different gender than she (now he) was born and remained ever so confused about his religion. He was born catholic but would often get disgusted by the issue of homophobia and transphobia and leave his birth religion. He started identifying as pagan (polytheist) and then accepted Shakta/Tantra form of Hinduism. But he would get drawn to Catholicism again and again. This pretty much indicates the person is turned off not by core catholic values but behaviour of certain people in society. The fellow had some interesting conversations with PD and he was also rather friendly with Erjen (who also liked the person to some extent). I just saw the poster on another board currently identifying as Hindu / Olympianism (Greco-Roman polytheism). This sort of felt funny but I kind of feel sad for people who are not able to find peace with religion. In my personal view most religions have some nice elements as well as some flaws in them. People should try to reconcile their religion and come to terms with it or if they believe their differences are irreconcilable then they should develop their own religion but not suffer from not being able to identify with one religion. Have you ever suffered from religious identity conflict? This is an open question to anyone. Even those who are atheists now and those religious people who may not be totally satisfied with their birth religion or adopted religion . The question is also for atheists who may not be totally happy with atheism. Hi, AJ, great to see you posting on this board again! Yes, I went through a period of religious identity conflict. I became disenchanted with the Southern Baptist teachings I grew up with, and made the huge-at-the-time conversion to being a Lutheran. That church was far more dignified, and played classical music (Bach, et al) on an amazing true tracker-action pipe organ. So different from the holy-roller 'praise' music of the Southern Baptists, plus the members seemed to be more normal, less obsessed with religion being the be-all and end-all of their lives. They seemed to keep it in a more realistic perspective; in contrast, the SB's seemed almost cultish. But then I was in college at the time, and exposed to the horrors (through art history) of the Christian crusades, then exposed to the vastly different art and religions of the East. I flirted for a time with Buddhism, and still wear a lovely carved jade Buddha pendant. Buddhism seemed to be the most non-violent of the organized religions. But then I married an agnostic atheist who agreed that we could each have our own beliefs/ non-beliefs; no conversion attempts on either side. His Secular Humanist ethics and values drove home to me that being a decent human being didn't depend on having a religion at its core. Then, his support of me through cancer treatment was based in science and fact, rather than prayer and false hope. I started to embrace just what science could prove through the scientific method, and any religious beliefs I had were pretty much gone. He passed away a few years later, a victim of a terminal illness that he was actually fascinated with, and wished he had enough time left to go back to school and study it. After his death, I developed a friendship with someone who was a true atheist, and I never looked back. Everything made sense at that point; no plan, no intelligent design, just natural law and evolution. And my atheist friend is one of the most compassionate Secular Humanists I've ever known. All religions have their positive points and negative points; I have read up on Jainism and it is an interesting religion. But I am clearly an atheist and content with having questions about the universe that science has yet to explain. I'd rather have questions and uncertainty than false facts that masquerade as certainties. And religion is so easily perverted and used to manipulate people. Just my views... Hey thanks Rachel for sharing your story. That's a rather long story of change that happened in you. First the shift to different sect and then having some interest in other religions and then you finally settled on atheism. So in the society you lived in were there very few people who were Lutheran as compared to Southern Baptist? Inter sect conversion is not something that is heard of frequently in Indian society except for when it comes to this newly created westernised school of Isckon which is really a stupid school. My mom and dad both are from Vaishnavite families but they both are devoted to Shiva & Parvati as much as to Vishnu. It's similar story across India. Sectarian division hardly exist in middle class families.
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Aug 30, 2017 1:24:32 GMT
Hi, AJ, great to see you posting on this board again! Yes, I went through a period of religious identity conflict. I became disenchanted with the Southern Baptist teachings I grew up with, and made the huge-at-the-time conversion to being a Lutheran. That church was far more dignified, and played classical music (Bach, et al) on an amazing true tracker-action pipe organ. So different from the holy-roller 'praise' music of the Southern Baptists, plus the members seemed to be more normal, less obsessed with religion being the be-all and end-all of their lives. They seemed to keep it in a more realistic perspective; in contrast, the SB's seemed almost cultish. But then I was in college at the time, and exposed to the horrors (through art history) of the Christian crusades, then exposed to the vastly different art and religions of the East. I flirted for a time with Buddhism, and still wear a lovely carved jade Buddha pendant. Buddhism seemed to be the most non-violent of the organized religions. But then I married an agnostic atheist who agreed that we could each have our own beliefs/ non-beliefs; no conversion attempts on either side. His Secular Humanist ethics and values drove home to me that being a decent human being didn't depend on having a religion at its core. Then, his support of me through cancer treatment was based in science and fact, rather than prayer and false hope. I started to embrace just what science could prove through the scientific method, and any religious beliefs I had were pretty much gone. He passed away a few years later, a victim of a terminal illness that he was actually fascinated with, and wished he had enough time left to go back to school and study it. After his death, I developed a friendship with someone who was a true atheist, and I never looked back. Everything made sense at that point; no plan, no intelligent design, just natural law and evolution. And my atheist friend is one of the most compassionate Secular Humanists I've ever known. All religions have their positive points and negative points; I have read up on Jainism and it is an interesting religion. But I am clearly an atheist and content with having questions about the universe that science has yet to explain. I'd rather have questions and uncertainty than false facts that masquerade as certainties. And religion is so easily perverted and used to manipulate people. Just my views... Hey thanks Rachel for sharing your story. That's a rather long story of change that happened in you. First the shift to different sect and then having some interest in other religions and then you finally settled on atheism. So in the society you lived in were there very few people who were Lutheran as compared to Southern Baptist? Inter sect conversion is not something that is heard of frequently in Indian society except for when it comes to this newly created westernised school of Isckon which is really a stupid school. My mom and dad both are from Vaishnavite families but they both are devoted to Shiva & Parvati as much as to Vishnu. It's similar story across India. Sectarian division hardly exist in middle class families. No, not at all. In the US, there is a plethora of different sects from strict Roman Catholic through moderate Methodists to fundamentalist Charismatics and various off-shoots of Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses, and probably in the Appalachian mountains a few snake-handling groups. And, for the most part, they live and let live. There is one stretch of road where I live; in less than a quarter mile, there are three separate churches - different sects - in a row! I always wonder, how many houses does god need in just one block? Such a huge amount of resources that could be used for, say, affordable housing for the poor? One thing I admire about the Amish - they don't usually have church buildings; services are held in members' homes and they take turns hosting. It is an interesting, almost self-contained community, with very plain and simple practices. Maybe Hinduism has fewer sects because, after 5,000 years, the differences have melted away, whereas Christianity is still young - only 2,000 years old and since it has been prosthelytised world-wide and blended into so many other cultures, there is just a lot of variety. Is Ganesh's celebration a widespread thing and are your parents celebrating?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2017 1:27:55 GMT
Not really confused. Until I became a firm atheist, I honestly didn't care enough about God to give much consideration to whether or not it exists. I remember that ghastly poster 'Saint Frankenstein'. Obnoxious, not very bright poseur who later became excessively religious.
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Post by gadreel on Aug 30, 2017 1:31:09 GMT
constantly.
But I tend to think that if we do not examine our belief (or lack thereof) periodically, then we are doing something wrong.
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Post by Aj_June on Aug 30, 2017 6:15:10 GMT
Hey thanks Rachel for sharing your story. That's a rather long story of change that happened in you. First the shift to different sect and then having some interest in other religions and then you finally settled on atheism. So in the society you lived in were there very few people who were Lutheran as compared to Southern Baptist? Inter sect conversion is not something that is heard of frequently in Indian society except for when it comes to this newly created westernised school of Isckon which is really a stupid school. My mom and dad both are from Vaishnavite families but they both are devoted to Shiva & Parvati as much as to Vishnu. It's similar story across India. Sectarian division hardly exist in middle class families. No, not at all. In the US, there is a plethora of different sects from strict Roman Catholic through moderate Methodists to fundamentalist Charismatics and various off-shoots of Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses, and probably in the Appalachian mountains a few snake-handling groups. And, for the most part, they live and let live. There is one stretch of road where I live; in less than a quarter mile, there are three separate churches - different sects - in a row! I always wonder, how many houses does god need in just one block? Such a huge amount of resources that could be used for, say, affordable housing for the poor? One thing I admire about the Amish - they don't usually have church buildings; services are held in members' homes and they take turns hosting. It is an interesting, almost self-contained community, with very plain and simple practices. Maybe Hinduism has fewer sects because, after 5,000 years, the differences have melted away, whereas Christianity is still young - only 2,000 years old and since it has been prosthelytised world-wide and blended into so many other cultures, there is just a lot of variety. Is Ganesh's celebration a widespread thing and are your parents celebrating? Ganesha is invoked first during any religious ceremony and almost altar of every house has a section dedicated to him. But he is seen as the most important god in only province of India. But as I said people of schools other than Isckon are not overly concerned with who worships which god. I think Christians of Europe are much more tolerant of each other's sects than Christians of America. In the coming years, the sectarian divisions of America will also melt away/
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