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Post by snsurone on Aug 27, 2017 17:43:20 GMT
A great movie with superb performances from a major cast.
In fact, Capt. Queeg was one of Bogie's finest characterizations.
The reason I'm mentioning this movie is that, surprisingly, it relates to the current situation in the US.
A major warship, the minesweeper "Caine", has a captain who was decidedly mentally ill, and a major nation (the USA) has a president who is decidedly mentally ill!
Of course, in the movie (and book) the crew rebelled and removed Queeg from his position of authority, resulting in a court martial that eventually exposed Queeg as being mentally unfit to be any kind of leader.
I would love to see Congress (even Republicans) do the same thing to Trump, and get him out of office!
But I doubt that will happen in the near future.
Makes me anxious and depressed concerning the future of America.
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Post by neurosturgeon on Aug 27, 2017 17:59:02 GMT
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Post by snsurone on Aug 27, 2017 18:23:33 GMT
Actually, Captain Queeg (as played by Bogie) was a rather sympathetic character, and it was sad to see him brought down by Barney Greenwald.
In fact, during the celebration after the court martial, Greenwald sharply castigated the sailors involved, finally dashing his champagne in Keefer's face.
I definitely don't feel the same way about Trump and his sycophants!
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Post by mattgarth on Aug 27, 2017 18:25:25 GMT
Fred MacMurray more often would shine when portraying a sleaze bag (CAINE, INDEMNITY, PUSHOVER, APARTMENT) than when playing a bland good guy.
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Post by mattgarth on Aug 27, 2017 18:30:26 GMT
Agreeing with Neuro here -- something I seldom do.  That guy in the photo behind her was willing to cut off his Secretary of Defense's arm to get the identifying handprint in order to launch nuclear missiles (see the movie and then better be on the alert, Mattis). Edit: good clip, Linda |
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Post by bravomailer on Aug 27, 2017 22:42:56 GMT
I just got a news alert saying there are strawberries missing from the White House kitchen!
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Post by snsurone on Aug 27, 2017 22:43:58 GMT
Another excellent performance was from Van Johnson, cast against type as Lt. Maryk.
He was usually cast as the handsome leading man in MGM musicals, but this movie broadened his range and led him to being cast into diverse movie and TV roles.
BTW, if a movie was ever made about Trump, would Alec Baldwin play him?
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Post by neurosturgeon on Aug 27, 2017 23:13:52 GMT
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Post by BATouttaheck on Aug 27, 2017 23:23:52 GMT
neurosturgeonMore frightening than the end of On The Beach . "enjoy" not quite the word. 
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Post by Doghouse6 on Aug 27, 2017 23:42:18 GMT
Another excellent performance was from Van Johnson, cast against type as Lt. Maryk. He was usually cast as the handsome leading man in MGM musicals, but this movie broadened his range and led him to being cast into diverse movie and TV roles. BTW, if a movie was ever made about Trump, would Alec Baldwin play him? You know who I think could play the hell out of Trump, if so inclined? William Shatner. Even with a decade-and-a-half on the WH occupant, he's more than hale and hearty enough to pull it off (more so, I dare say, than the occupant himself is in reality), given the appropriate hairpiece. If his tendencies toward self-satire could be curbed, his way with characters embodying smug arrogance - punctuated by the volcanic outbursts and episodes of whimpering self-pity he does so well - would fill the bill. But now, back to our movie. Johnson along with MacMurray and Bogart are at their best under Dmytryk's direction. Indeed, I rate this Bogart's finest, most layered and subtly-shaded work. If the film has a fault, it's only in the portrayal of the subplot involving Willie's romance with May. If the screenplay hadn't room to fully commit to its significance, it should have been omitted altogether. Dramatizations of Herman Wouk's novel have existed in only two forms: this production and the earlier stage play (which concerned itself entirely with the court-martial), and neither has done it justice. It's a fine literary work that cries out for a two or even three-part HBO-type miniseries that would allow the significance of Willie's time in midshipman's school, his relationship with May (which provides a yardstick in parallel to the naval story by which Willie's maturation as both man and officer are measured) and the Caine's own post-Queeg existence under the command of (surprise tease coming) Keefer - who emerges as the story's most tragic and indeed poignant figure - to be developed. It's almost as though Wouk constructed the novel with that in mind decades before such a dramatic form was created, and its story arc (another tease: the court-martial itself is by no means the dramatic climax) lends itself perfectly to it. As I say, though, the film's purely practical limitation overall in shoehorning what's truly an epic story into a mere two hours is its only weakness. |
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Post by OldAussie on Aug 28, 2017 0:01:38 GMT
Very good movie.
EXCELLENT novel.
Another recommendation for The Dead Zone.
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Post by BATouttaheck on Aug 28, 2017 0:30:33 GMT
Johnson, cast against type as Lt. Maryk. He was usually cast as the handsome leading man in MGM musicals, but this movie broadened his range and led him to being cast into diverse movie and TV roles. Van Johnson Experts : Comments on the quoted statement ? I have my doubts about any sort of major change in his career path post Caine. Pre-Caine he had played several military men and the majority of his films had been non-musicals. Ditto Post Caine. Van Johnson Filmography |
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Post by politicidal on Aug 28, 2017 0:34:04 GMT
I just got a news alert saying there are strawberries missing from the White House kitchen! Shit, he'll nuke North Korea over this! |
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Post by snsurone on Aug 28, 2017 0:42:39 GMT
Another excellent performance was from Van Johnson, cast against type as Lt. Maryk. He was usually cast as the handsome leading man in MGM musicals, but this movie broadened his range and led him to being cast into diverse movie and TV roles. BTW, if a movie was ever made about Trump, would Alec Baldwin play him? You know who I think could play the hell out of Trump, if so inclined? William Shatner. Even with a decade-and-a-half on the WH occupant, he's more than hale and hearty enough to pull it off (more so, I dare say, than the occupant himself is in reality), given the appropriate hairpiece. If his tendencies toward self-satire could be curbed, his way with characters embodying smug arrogance - punctuated by the volcanic outbursts and episodes of whimpering self-pity he does so well - would fill the bill. But now, back to our movie. Johnson along with MacMurray and Bogart are at their best under Dmytryk's direction. Indeed, I rate this Bogart's finest, most layered and subtly-shaded work. If the film has a fault, it's only in the portrayal of the subplot involving Willie's romance with May. If the screenplay hadn't room to fully commit to its significance, it should have been omitted altogether. Dramatizations of Herman Wouk's novel have existed in only two forms: this production and the earlier stage play (which concerned itself entirely with the court-martial), and neither has done it justice. It's a fine literary work that cries out for a two or even three-part HBO-type miniseries that would allow the significance of Willie's time in midshipman's school, his relationship with May (which provides a yardstick in parallel to the naval story by which Willie's maturation as both man and officer are measured) and the Caine's own post-Queeg existence under the command of (surprise tease coming) Keefer - who emerges as the story's most tragic and indeed poignant figure - to be developed. It's almost as though Wouk constructed the novel with that in mind decades before such a dramatic form was created, and its story arc (another tease: the court-martial itself is by no means the dramatic climax) lends itself perfectly to it. As I say, though, the film's purely practical limitation overall in shoehorning what's truly an epic story into a mere two hours is its only weakness. I dunno, doghouse--I really don't think that Shatner has the acting chops to portray Trump effectively. I've always found him to be a bland actor, with the success of STAR TREK due mostly to the other players. |
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Post by bravomailer on Aug 28, 2017 1:24:19 GMT
I just got a news alert saying there are strawberries missing from the White House kitchen! Shit, he'll nuke North Korea over this! That should read I just got a Tweet about strawberries missing from the White House kitchen. |
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Post by neurosturgeon on Aug 28, 2017 1:49:57 GMT
neurosturgeon More frightening than the end of On The Beach . "enjoy" not quite the word. My parents took me to see "On The Beach" when I was 5 yeas old and it terrified the heck out of me. The Cuban Missile Crisis had is doing duck and cover drills and storing food in galvanized trash cans. My fourth grade teacher explained to us one day that living in a port city with a major naval base with nearby aircraft manufacturers and oil refineries, we would be a major target. The Navy is gone, but North Korea might still think us worthy. I am afraid for the future and I hope that "The Dead Zone" will continue to be a fantasy and not a preview of coming attractions. Someone needs to study the 25th Amendment. |
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Post by Doghouse6 on Aug 28, 2017 14:39:07 GMT
You know who I think could play the hell out of Trump, if so inclined? William Shatner. Even with a decade-and-a-half on the WH occupant, he's more than hale and hearty enough to pull it off (more so, I dare say, than the occupant himself is in reality), given the appropriate hairpiece. If his tendencies toward self-satire could be curbed, his way with characters embodying smug arrogance - punctuated by the volcanic outbursts and episodes of whimpering self-pity he does so well - would fill the bill. I dunno, doghouse--I really don't think that Shatner has the acting chops to portray Trump effectively. I've always found him to be a bland actor, with the success of STAR TREK due mostly to the other players. Really? That's surprises me; "bland" is something I wouldn't have expected to see applied to Shatner. Anyway, I remember watching him play someone especially pompous and self-important a couple years back - I don't even recall what it was - and remarking, "You know who he's reminding me of? Donald Trump." I'm not sure about Baldwin; I know his caricature is popular, but I've never really felt he's captured The Occupant at all. He's a perfectly capable actor, and would have to modify his "Trump" persona considerably in order to sustain it through anything as ambitious as a feature film (in much the same way as Ed Asner did when his "Lou Grant" character was transposed from live-audience half-hour sitcom to single-camera one-hour dramatic format). But again, back to The Caine Mutiny, one of the elements of the film that's most successful is its modification of the characters and their prominence in the story to suit the encapsulated form it took. Willie, for example, is the central character in the novel, but most of his many flaws are smoothed away by the film in order for him to function primarily as the eyes and ears through which the audience witnesses events aboard the Caine. Likewise, Maryk's presence is enhanced beyond that in the book, and Queeg is altered to make him a battle-weary veteran suiting Bogart rather than the incompetent weasel who, in Peter Principle fashion, has risen to a position in which he's out of his depth, covering his mistakes and out-and-out violations of regulations with everything from lies to his Pacific commanders to bold blackmail of his junior officers, before finally retreating to a nearly infantile state, barricading himself in his bunk for days doing nothing but eating ice cream, drinking and sleeping. While not nearly as big on fiction as non-fiction for my reading, one of the things I can't help doing when pursuing a novel is mentally "casting" it, and a luxury of doing so is mixing generations of actors. The poorly-educated, rough-hewn, nose-to-the-grindstone Maryk of the novel (whose background was as a commercial fisherman) suggested a James Whitmore more than a Van Johnson, and the book's pudgy, balding, sandy-haired and whiny Queeg sounded to me like Philip Seymour Hoffman. Wouk's Navy defense attorney Greenwald, rather than the self-confident, expeditious and lethal pro played by Jose Ferrer, is instead an ambitious but unsure-of-himself novice; I pictured David Schwimmer (and was gratified to later learn that he'd done the role in a 2006 B'way revival of the play). Fred MacMurray came closest to the Keefer of the novel, but there's a deceptively innocent Machiavellian sliminess to the character that would have been right up David Straithairn's alley at one time. The book's toughest nuts to crack, casting-wise, are Willie and May: he begins in the novel with selfishness, irresponsibility and prejudice that require overcoming. She's the daughter of poor Italian immigrants ("Marie Minotti") who's reinvented herself as "May Wynn" and been around the block, becoming guarded and self-protective to shield her vulnerability. They're both complex characters, and I never did get a fix on what shape their casting might ideally take. I'm sure of this much: if the story ever does get the screen treatment it deserves, the players will be people of whom I - almost completely out of touch with current popular entertainment - am likely never to have heard. Whoever they might be, I hope they're good...and that I live to see it. |
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Post by snsurone on Aug 28, 2017 15:13:37 GMT
Fascinating post, dog. I admire your patience in writing such a long missive,  . Your description of the book's Queeg fits Trump to a T. Seems that there always has to be some kind of character adaptation when transferring a novel to the screen. For instance, in GWTW, Vivien Leigh's Scarlett is more sympathetic than the book's hard-hearted protagonist. |
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Post by BATouttaheck on Aug 28, 2017 15:36:09 GMT
James Garner was in the play on Broadway and always said he learned to act by listening, as he had no words to say during the entire performance. Here's Maverick, 2nd from the left. Listening ! [  |
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Post by BATouttaheck on Aug 28, 2017 15:37:33 GMT
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