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Post by BATouttaheck on Sept 1, 2017 0:28:00 GMT
Primemovermithrax PejorativeThought out and well written ^^^ . Way out of my league of expertize.
I tend to see movies as stories and don't read into them theories or hidden meanings, much less go into the background or politics of the studios or authors. For me, it's an exciting movie about men in a crisis. A highlight upon a delayed re-watch was finding that Horrible's Un-tucked Shirttail was actually the CAUSE of the circled over and broken tow-line and something of the beginning of the end for Queeg. I had forgotten that important detail, along with the trip to Yellowstone and the whole Willy and May story. We talked about the Caine last year on the old board and I had to watch it again to keep up with the discussion. Such a good film !
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Post by mattgarth on Sept 1, 2017 0:33:50 GMT
Actually it was 'Meatball' Claude Akins whose shirttail was untucked, Bat.
And that was Todd Karns -- Jimmy Stewart's WONDERFUL LIFE's brother ("To my big brother George -- the richest man in town!") playing the helmsman who tried to call Queeg's attention to the towline.
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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Sept 1, 2017 0:35:46 GMT
Haha well I do it with every movie.
Even something like Dracula is at its essence about the danger of a foreign intruder to the stability of society. Or a warning against journeying outside your comfort zone.
Seemed to me that Queeg was asking for help when he had the crew meeting-but no one would respond to him because military code required that they do not express their feelings.
So the moment to address it was missed.
One wants dramatic conflict in a movie--so I am not saying it shouldnt exist--but the choices are always there. Why are certain decisions made?
Compared to today, the subtle themes and messages are very mild indeed.
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Post by BATouttaheck on Sept 1, 2017 0:45:27 GMT
Actually it was 'Meatball' Claude Akins whose shirttail was untucked, Bat. And that was Todd Karns -- Jimmy Stewart's WONDERFUL LIFE's brother ("To my big brother George -- the richest man in town!") playing the helmsman who tried to call Queeg's attention to the towline. Nuh uh ... Lee Marvin played Meatball. Claude was "Horrible" and for years I thought that his name was Glugatch ... seems it's Lugatch. I remember you said about George once upon a time. Cool ! Cast etc  |
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Post by mattgarth on Sept 1, 2017 0:48:18 GMT
OK OK, Bat -- a Meatball that is Horrible would still smell as sweet.
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Post by BATouttaheck on Sept 1, 2017 0:53:27 GMT
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Post by mattgarth on Sept 1, 2017 0:58:42 GMT
Me too Bat -- met Akins once who was playing at a celebrity golf tournament during his 'Sheriff Lobo' salad days. Though he usually played a beefy bully, in real life he was a very nice guy who was very approachable and who gave this then young radio interviewer some cherished quality air time. |
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Post by Doghouse6 on Sept 1, 2017 1:06:32 GMT
Just a little more Caine trivia: the crewman who started the whole shirttail flap (pardon), Seaman 1st Class Urban, was played by Don Dubbins, who would inherit the role in Tribute To A Bad Man that Robert Francis (Keith) was about to begin shooting when he was killed in a plane crash in 1955. Dubbins was reportedly hand-picked by James Cagney, who inherited his TTABM role after Spencer Tracy dropped out, and would go on to play Fleet Adm. William "Bull" Halsey (whom Maryk, Keith and Keefer go to see to report Queeg's instability) in 1960's The Gallant Hours. And before all of this happened, Tribute To A Bad Man had been the original title of The Bad and the Beautiful. 'Round and 'round it goes... |
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Post by BATouttaheck on Sept 1, 2017 2:06:02 GMT
Doghouse6you really need to play those "six degrees games" over on the trivia board. You'd win the BIG $$$ Prizes for shure ! As for the shirttail flap ...
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Post by teleadm on Sept 1, 2017 16:09:33 GMT
After reading the discussions on this thread and keeping silent until now, and since I have the DVD I thought it was time to rewatch it again, bearing in mind all thoughts delivered here.
It's a great movie, no doubt about that. I had forgotten the time it takes before Humphrey Bogart appears, and that Tom Tully's part was bigger than I remembered. The young lovers story that I remembered as long and distracting, didn't feel that long this time around, with beautiful scene from Yellowstone. José Ferrer's powerfull end speach in the festivity local. How early Fred MacMurray's betrayal against Van Johnson begins while still manipulating.
The young lovers story has very weak leads, Robert Francis had a very short career since he died in a car accident a few movie after this, I don't wan't to sound cruel, but I'm not sure he was the star material that Harry Cohn hoped he was.
Something I always notice since I listened to the DVD comenatary track once, and they didn't had any answer for it, is when Queeg turns around too early at the Tarawa attack, Max Stainer suddenly incorporates Native Americans tam tam tam drumming on the soundtrack.
Humphrey Bogart had come a long way since Duke Mantee by now.
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Post by snsurone on Sept 1, 2017 16:16:23 GMT
tele, Robert Francis died when the plane he was piloting crashed.
Maybe you're thinking of James Dean.
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Post by teleadm on Sept 1, 2017 19:40:46 GMT
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Post by snsurone on Sept 4, 2017 15:59:24 GMT
One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that Barney Greenwald was Jewish.
This was a fact in the novel, not the movie.
In the novel, when Greenwald was berating the men after the court martial, he said that he was grateful to Queeg because he "kept Goering from washing his fat behind with my mother!" (It has been said that the fat of murdered Jews was used to make soap, just as Ilsa Koch made lampshades from their scalps.)
Toasting "the real author of the Caine mutiny", he then threw his champagne in Keefer's face.
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Post by snsurone on Sept 4, 2017 16:23:41 GMT
Yes, tele--this time. Check Wiki. |
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Post by teleadm on Sept 4, 2017 17:17:12 GMT
Yes, tele--this time. Check Wiki. Sorry, snsurone , I missunderstood. Yes he died in a plane crash, no doubt! Car crash was something I had remembered wrong. |
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Post by snsurone on Sept 4, 2017 17:47:54 GMT
Yes, tele--this time. Check Wiki. Sorry, snsurone , I missunderstood. Yes he died in a plane crash, no doubt! Car crash was something I had remembered wrong. It's easy to misunderstand, tele. Both Francis and Dean were promising newcomers, and both died in horrible accidents the same year. Dean in a car crash, and Francis in a plane crash. |
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Post by BATouttaheck on Sept 4, 2017 22:36:04 GMT
tele, Robert Francis died when the plane he was piloting crashed. Maybe you're thinking of James Dean. Am 99.99% sure that no one confuses James Dean and Robert Francis.  It was obvious that tele mis-spoke car for plane crash. |
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Post by snsurone on Jul 16, 2018 14:41:33 GMT
Fred MacMurray more often would shine when portraying a sleaze bag (CAINE, INDEMNITY, PUSHOVER, APARTMENT) than when playing a bland good guy. Same with TV, Matt. His Steve Douglas on MY THREE SONS was one of the most boring characters in sitcom history. |
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Post by snsurone on Jul 16, 2018 15:15:03 GMT
Although the Caine Mutiny was not made by one of the big studios it still has the subversive demoralization agenda that Yuri Bezmenov claimed was well under way in the US. Whether that is true or not, the story certainly fits the themes. Keith is marrying outside his class--which must have been about as far as they could go with "embrace the foreigner" in the 1950s. On the military side, the implication is that the US armed services is full of corruption. The bad guy is the well-to-do white guy Keefer, the hero? The lawyer Greenwald. Maryk is dumb, Keith is an idiot, Queeg has been damaged by his military service (does every US military veteran come back a Rambo or American Sniper?). De Vriess is the 1950s liberal while Queeg represents the fascist. How about the interracial marriages in 1957's SAYONARA? |
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Post by BATouttaheck on Jul 16, 2018 15:50:29 GMT
Doghouse6Re-reading this re-born thread … I now know why the recent Horrible / Dubbins shirttale discussion seemed like deja vu all over again .. complete with same illustrations yet ! 
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