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Post by franktjmackey on Mar 1, 2017 7:03:46 GMT
Anything that demonstrates a god is either necessary... Like what? or at least that some aspect like intelligence can exist before the universe... How would this look? I'm curious. or in any way that would resemble the definition of a god... Give me an example. Just to be clear, you want evidence that God exists but you can't be specific about such evidence because if you were, God would exist or something.... If you had any evidence, you wouldn't need to ask. Also, why would I know the answers to those? As far as I can tell it's a myth. So you want evidence/proof of God's existence, but you don't know what the evidence required is... and in the absence of that evidence which you don't know of....God can't exist. Yeah, you've thought this out... |
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Post by juicebox07 on Mar 1, 2017 7:05:49 GMT
Yes, I've considered it very much. Would it change anything for me? Yes, I suppose so. What would it take to convince me that there isn't one? Easy. God would have to appear to me in person and tell me to my face that He doesn't exist. Wouldn't that be paradoxical? My thoughts as well. That doesn't make much sense. Seems like that statement should be the other way around, as it is with me. I would need to see God face to face (or at least him somehow show me he is real) in order for me to believe in his existence. I've never witnessed his presence, therefore I am an atheist. Kind of like how I also don't believe in Santa, the Tooth Fairy, or Leprechauns because I've never seen them and there's no proof they exist. They're just myths. |
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Mar 1, 2017 7:06:40 GMT
Well at least you've identified the problem.
Step two is realizing you can do that yourself.
There is no problem. You just need to get a life and quit troubling over what people believe or don't believe. |
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Mar 1, 2017 7:09:13 GMT
So you want evidence/proof of God's existence, but you don't know what the evidence required is... and in the absence of that evidence which you don't know of....God can't exist. Yeah, you've thought this out... Are you serious? How could I possibly know what evidence, without already knowing what the evidence is?
Are you aware of any evidence, of any kind?
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Post by franktjmackey on Mar 1, 2017 7:10:22 GMT
Wouldn't that be paradoxical? My thoughts as well. That doesn't make much sense. Seems like that statement should be the other way around, as it is with me. I would need to see God face to face (or at least him somehow show me he is real) in order for me to believe in his existence. I've never witnessed his presence, therefore I am an atheist. Kind of like how I also don't believe in Santa, the Tooth Fairy, or Leprechauns because I've never seen them and there's no proof they exist. They're just myths. God existence doesn't require your belief. Just curious, what would God look like to satisfy your criteria of face to face? |
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Mar 1, 2017 7:10:31 GMT
There is no problem. You just need to get a life and quit troubling over what people believe or don't believe. Ahhhh, so right back to the "just leave us alone" argument, which is not coincidentally the subject of this thread.
So why do you so quickly revert to wanting to reject questions?
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Mar 1, 2017 7:14:06 GMT
There is no problem. You just need to get a life and quit troubling over what people believe or don't believe. Ahhhh, so right back to the "just leave us alone" argument, which is not coincidentally the subject of this thread.
So why do you so quickly revert to wanting to reject questions?
I answered your questions. I didn't have to, but I did. You came back with a smartass remark, and I put you in your place. |
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Mar 1, 2017 7:15:28 GMT
I answered your questions. I didn't have to, but I did. You came back with a smartass remark, and I put you in your place. You did neither thing. Your response was "god would have to tell me he doesn't exist." If you expected that to taken seriously, I can't take you seriously. good night. |
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Mar 1, 2017 7:21:20 GMT
I answered your questions. I didn't have to, but I did. You came back with a smartass remark, and I put you in your place. You did neither thing. Your response was "god would have to tell me he doesn't exist." If you expected that to taken seriously, I can't take you seriously. good night. Yes, you whine that theists won't answer your questions, and when you get answers that you don't like, you whine that your questions were not answered. This isn't the first time. Good night. |
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Post by franktjmackey on Mar 1, 2017 7:22:37 GMT
So you want evidence/proof of God's existence, but you don't know what the evidence required is... and in the absence of that evidence which you don't know of....God can't exist. Yeah, you've thought this out... Are you serious? How could I possibly know what evidence, without already knowing what the evidence is?
Are you aware of any evidence, of any kind?
You said: What would actual evidence be in YOUR opinion? You also said: I asked like what? What would demonstrate to you that a god is necessary? I asked How would this look? I'm curious. Please explain to me how someone can show you that intelligence can exist before the universe. It's your standard, surely you must know what you need to see. I asked for you to Give me an example. What is the definition of a god? You must have one in order to compare right? |
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Mar 1, 2017 7:24:44 GMT
Are you serious? How could I possibly know what evidence, without already knowing what the evidence is?
Are you aware of any evidence, of any kind?
You said: What would actual evidence be in YOUR opinion? You also said: I asked like what? What would demonstrate to you that a god is necessary? I asked How would this look? I'm curious. Please explain to me how someone can show you that intelligence can exist before the universe. It's your standard, surely you must know what you need to see. I asked for you to Give me an example. What is the definition of a god? You must have one in order to compare right? Any evidence you've got. You don't need me to give you an example. |
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Post by franktjmackey on Mar 1, 2017 7:25:53 GMT
You said: What would actual evidence be in YOUR opinion? You also said: I asked like what? What would demonstrate to you that a god is necessary? I asked How would this look? I'm curious. Please explain to me how someone can show you that intelligence can exist before the universe. It's your standard, surely you must know what you need to see. I asked for you to Give me an example. What is the definition of a god? You must have one in order to compare right? Any evidence you've got. You don't need me to give you an example. Ah, so you're rejecting being questioned? |
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Mar 1, 2017 7:30:10 GMT
Ah, so you're rejecting being questioned? Not at all, I said any demonstration that a god exists is good. I answered you clearly. I'm actually not limiting you, so long as the evidence you present, demonstrates a god is required.
I'm sure if you actually think the analogy you were trying to make works or not, but it doesn't. Just FYI.
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Post by franktjmackey on Mar 1, 2017 7:34:26 GMT
Ah, so you're rejecting being questioned? Not at all, I said any demonstration that a god exists is good. I answered you clearly. I'm actually not limiting you, so long as the evidence you present, demonstrates a god is required.
I'm sure if you actually think the analogy you were trying to make works or not, but it doesn't. Just FYI.
You're rejecting my questions... seems pretty clear. OK, I'll bite... what would a demonstration that god exists be? What demonstration would satisfy you? I'll try again... Please explain to me how someone can show you that intelligence can exist before the universe. It's your standard, surely you must know what you need to see. What is the definition of a god? You must have one in order to compare right? |
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Mar 1, 2017 7:37:37 GMT
You're rejecting my questions... seems pretty clear. OK, I'll bite... what would a demonstration that god exists be? What demonstration would satisfy you? I'll try again... Please explain to me how someone can show you that intelligence can exist before the universe. It's your standard, surely you must know what you need to see. What is the definition of a god? You must have one in order to compare right? I have no idea, which is exactly why I don't believe it.
The question is, why do you?
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Post by franktjmackey on Mar 1, 2017 7:59:41 GMT
You're rejecting my questions... seems pretty clear. OK, I'll bite... what would a demonstration that god exists be? What demonstration would satisfy you? I'll try again... Please explain to me how someone can show you that intelligence can exist before the universe. It's your standard, surely you must know what you need to see. What is the definition of a god? You must have one in order to compare right? I have no idea, which is exactly why I don't believe it.
The question is, why do you?
Then how will you know if and when you see it? You seem to be unable to answer some pretty basic questions. |
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Mar 1, 2017 8:05:14 GMT
Then how will you know if and when you see it? You seem to be unable to answer some pretty basic questions. Because sufficient evidence demonstrates a specific conclusion.
You see the way science works, is that we don't go seeking evidence to match answers, but instead, we follow evidence to whatever conclusions it leads to.
I'm answering your questions directly.
If you've come to the conclusion that a god exists, clearly you've followed some evidence to get to that conclusion. Right? What is that evidence?
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Post by Cinemachinery on Mar 1, 2017 8:07:24 GMT
Were my belief set continually being questioned by an ever-graduating-yet-never-changing progression of atheist-101 types only just now stumbling upon arguments had 1001 times before, I'd likely get snappish.
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Post by Jonesy1 on Mar 1, 2017 8:17:00 GMT
There is no problem. You just need to get a life and quit troubling over what people believe or don't believe. Ahhhh, so right back to the "just leave us alone" argument, which is not coincidentally the subject of this thread.
So why do you so quickly revert to wanting to reject questions?
Here's part of reason why people don't want to answer your questions, it's not the questions themselves but the person asking them, as in you. You look down on people, and you have an overinflated sense of entitlement. It goes something like this. "I am entitled to question you. I am entitled to answers from. I am entitled to pry into your personal beliefs. But you are not entitled to not want to be questioned by me." |
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Post by franktjmackey on Mar 1, 2017 8:19:26 GMT
Then how will you know if and when you see it? You seem to be unable to answer some pretty basic questions. Because sufficient evidence demonstrates a specific conclusion.
You see the way science works, is that we don't go seeking evidence to match answers, but instead, we follow evidence to whatever conclusions it leads to.
I'm answering your questions directly.
If you've come to the conclusion that a god exists, clearly you've followed some evidence to get to that conclusion. Right? What is that evidence?
You're avoiding them. You asked for evidence that "intelligence can exist before the universe". In this case, science would posit a hypothesis that intelligence can exist before the universe. In order to prove it, they must be able to recognize proof. Yes? In order to recognize proof, they must understand what they are looking for. Yes? You state that theists reject questioning yet you demand actual evidence that "intelligence can exist before the universe", without ever providing what that evidence must look like in order to prove to YOU the hypothesis. You asked for actual evidence that intelligence or an aspect that would resemble the definition of a god exists before the universe? What definition of a god are you using? You must have some parameter for this evidence. You've set the standard yet you can't explain it or detail it. |
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