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Post by ArArArchStanton on Mar 1, 2017 8:27:45 GMT
Here's part of reason why people don't want to answer your questions, it's not the questions themselves but the person asking them, as in you. You look down on people, and you have an overinflated sense of entitlement. It goes something like this. "I am entitled to question you. I am entitled to answers from. I am entitled to pry into your personal beliefs. But you are not entitled to not want to be questioned by me." You're entitled to ask questions too. Why am I not allowed to ask questions? I'm not making any of you respond, so I don't know how you say I'm entitled to any responses. Of course I'm not. Ignore me at your discretion.
And why does anybody get defensive over "personal beliefs"? As if we've all just got this little pocket of irrational thoughts we're afraid to talk about. You can question any belief I hold any time, and I welcome you to it. I have no idea why that is offensive to anybody.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Mar 1, 2017 8:33:47 GMT
You're avoiding them. You asked for evidence that "intelligence can exist before the universe". In this case, science would posit a hypothesis that intelligence can exist before the universe. In order to prove it, they must be able to recognize proof. Yes? In order to recognize proof, they must understand what they are looking for. Yes? You state that theists reject questioning yet you demand actual evidence that "intelligence can exist before the universe", without ever providing what that evidence must look like in order to prove to YOU the hypothesis. You asked for actual evidence that intelligence or an aspect that would resemble the definition of a god exists before the universe? What definition of a god are you using? You must have some parameter for this evidence. You've set the standard yet you can't explain it or detail it. No. First of all, it's not a hypothesis that intelligence can exist prior to the universe. That isn't even a coherent idea. Hypotheses are based on some level of limited evidence in the first place, and further tests are done to determine if there are consistent results, etc. If further evidence is gathered, it is included, but we do not know what that evidence will be in advance.
I really don't know why you think we know what evidence we are looking for before we find it.
I haven't set any standard. I've left it completely open.
It seems like instead of providing any sort of an explanation, you're just more interested in trying to turn the conversation completely backwards, which is curious.
Is there is any reason that I should continue to respond to you?
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Post by Jonesy1 on Mar 1, 2017 9:35:37 GMT
Here's part of reason why people don't want to answer your questions, it's not the questions themselves but the person asking them, as in you. You look down on people, and you have an overinflated sense of entitlement. It goes something like this. "I am entitled to question you. I am entitled to answers from. I am entitled to pry into your personal beliefs. But you are not entitled to not want to be questioned by me." You're entitled to ask questions too. Why am I not allowed to ask questions? I'm not making any of you respond, so I don't know how you say I'm entitled to any responses. Of course I'm not. Ignore me at your discretion.
And why does anybody get defensive over "personal beliefs"? As if we've all just got this little pocket of irrational thoughts we're afraid to talk about. You can question any belief I hold any time, and I welcome you to it. I have no idea why that is offensive to anybody.
I never said you aren't allowed to ask questions, but you have difficulty understanding that people don't have to answer and if they do you have difficulty accepting the answer given if it isn't the one you expect or demand. And if don't understand why people don't want to answer questions of a personal nature then please tell me, how many times a week do you fuck your wife? |
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Mar 1, 2017 9:38:12 GMT
I never said you aren't allowed to ask questions, but you have difficulty understanding that people don't have to answer and if they do you have difficulty accepting the answer given if it isn't the one you expect or demand. And if don't understand why people don't want to answer questions of a personal nature then please tell me, how many times a week do you fuck your wife? I don't have difficultly with that at all. In fact, all I do is respond to the people who do answer.
You act as though all answers are equally good and should be accepted regardless of merit.
Three times a week. Is that really something I should be afraid or uncomfortable to answer?
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Post by Jonesy1 on Mar 1, 2017 9:48:37 GMT
I never said you aren't allowed to ask questions, but you have difficulty understanding that people don't have to answer and if they do you have difficulty accepting the answer given if it isn't the one you expect or demand. And if don't understand why people don't want to answer questions of a personal nature then please tell me, how many times a week do you fuck your wife? I don't have difficultly with that at all. In fact, all I do is respond to the people who do answer.
You act as though all answers are equally good and should be accepted regardless of merit.
Three times a week. Is that really something I should be afraid or uncomfortable to answer?
If all you do is respond to people who do answer then why start threads like this one? You started numerous threads like this on the old RFS boards. If you ask someone about their beliefs and they give you an honest answer then who are you to decide it's merit? Good for you, however if you had responded saying it's personal then I would have respected that and not questioned you further. But if you ask someone about their personal beliefs and they tell you it's personal would you be willing to respect that and refrain from asking further? |
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Mar 1, 2017 10:04:22 GMT
If all you do is respond to people who do answer then why start threads like this one? You started numerous threads like this on the old RFS boards. If you ask someone about their beliefs and they give you an honest answer then who are you to decide it's merit? Good for you, however if you had responded saying it's personal then I would have respected that and not questioned you further. But if you ask someone about their personal beliefs and they tell you it's personal would you be willing to respect that and refrain from asking further? So again, you think any answer should be accepted as is, with no further question?
The thing about these beliefs is they aren't personal. They are claims about reality.
Stop trying to pack them in as though they are some personal topic that is inappropriate to discuss. No, I don't respect that excuse at all.
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Post by Jonesy1 on Mar 1, 2017 10:11:59 GMT
If all you do is respond to people who do answer then why start threads like this one? You started numerous threads like this on the old RFS boards. If you ask someone about their beliefs and they give you an honest answer then who are you to decide it's merit? Good for you, however if you had responded saying it's personal then I would have respected that and not questioned you further. But if you ask someone about their personal beliefs and they tell you it's personal would you be willing to respect that and refrain from asking further? No, I don't respect that excuse at all. And that tells me all I need to know about you. |
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Mar 1, 2017 10:14:11 GMT
No, I don't respect that excuse at all. And that tells me all I need to know about you. Yeah because all great discoveries were immediately followed by the discoverer saying "it's my personal belief, no questions please" and everybody respected those famous scientists for that very response.
Tell me what is respectable about hiding behind the "it's my personal belief" line?
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Post by Arlon10 on Mar 1, 2017 10:46:51 GMT
<several things addressed individually> It can seem that way when it's not, but I think most people here on either side of the existence of god debate agree with you. ArArArchStanton needs to work on his style. It's the worst. It can seem that way when it's not, but that's the whole point of debate, to find out which is which. |
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Mar 1, 2017 11:51:10 GMT
I see a lot of theists who respond with "I have the right to believe whatever I want" or some such similar line.
yes, you do. Nobody said you didn't.
Are we supposed to stop asking questions then? Me: What questions do you have?  Theophobiac: Tell me everything you know about why you make stupid choices. Me:  Theophobiac: I knew it. You got NOTHING!!!!! |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2017 11:52:10 GMT
because it highlights the fact that that they don't have answers.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Mar 1, 2017 11:54:37 GMT
because it highlights the fact that that they don't have answers. Untrue. There have been plenty of totally ignored answers to appropriate questions. It's the questions that tend to be retarded. No one has tripped me up yet! |
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Mar 1, 2017 11:58:05 GMT
because it highlights the fact that that they don't have answers. He got answers, and he didn't like the answers he got, so he lied and said that he didn't get answers, and yet he and you and the other vermin still keep coming back. Why is that? |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2017 12:17:29 GMT
because it highlights the fact that that they don't have answers. He got answers, and he didn't like the answers he got, so he lied and said that he didn't get answers, and yet he and you and the other vermin still keep coming back. Why is that? That's because you have a fevered imagination and like to pretend you have answers when you don't. |
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Mar 1, 2017 12:20:59 GMT
So is the only answer that matters the ones that are made up for a "theist" ahead of time? Maybe the questions were rhetorical to begin with. If only we knew the rules!  |
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Mar 1, 2017 12:25:51 GMT
He got answers, and he didn't like the answers he got, so he lied and said that he didn't get answers, and yet he and you and the other vermin still keep coming back. Why is that? That's because you have a fevered imagination and like to pretend you have answers when you don't. There are no answers that an entity like you would be satisfied with, yet you still keep coming back. Why is that? |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2017 12:30:29 GMT
That's because you have a fevered imagination and like to pretend you have answers when you don't. There are no answers that an entity like you would be satisfied with, yet you still keep coming back. Why is that? That's because you still have a fevered imagination and like to pretend that I don't accept your "answers" because of a problem with me, when it's actually because your answers are usually terrible. |
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Mar 1, 2017 14:13:19 GMT
Anything that gives unambiguous and conclusive attribution of an event or circumstance to the deliberate supernatural of your choice, outside of the hearsay and circular claims of scripture or personal credulity. Do you have anything that would satisfy the terms of such a demonstration? Since only intelligence would allow for deliberation before creation giving it a perceived meaning, then this atheist at least would be pleased just with that which is described above (it being commonly being described as 'outside of time and space and all.) I hope that will not be a problem.
In so far as one presumes that we are talking the traditional sort then it would be the supernatural creator and ruler of the universe and source of all moral authority, the supreme being. Or, less specifically, a superhuman being or spirit worshipped as having power over nature or human fortunes; a deity.
What definition do you follow?
Here's a new question for you: can you show the difference between a real and imaginary god? Or, what would serve to falsify one god and not another (yours, say?)
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Mar 1, 2017 16:46:45 GMT
<several things addressed individually> It can seem that way when it's not, but I think most people here on either side of the existence of god debate agree with you. ArArArchStanton needs to work on his style. It's the worst. It can seem that way when it's not, but that's the whole point of debate, to find out which is which. I would explain my disposition as, some arguments, not all, earn the title of nonsense and need to be plainly stated as nonsense. At some point an idea no longer maintains credibility and it's at this point where some, like yourself, seem to have a problem with my style. If this were any other subject matter, say people trying to claim the world was flat, none of us would have a problem shouting such a silly idea down, but for some reason we allow this one to persist with equally poor evidence. |
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Post by filmfan95 on Mar 1, 2017 20:32:57 GMT
I will happily answer any questions regarding my faith if they are asked to me. You can disagree all you want, because we are all entitled to our opinions. Great! :-)
How about I start, by simply asking, what convincing you that a god is something real.
There are many answers I could give here, but I'll keep it simple. I believe that the way the universe is set up really only makes sense if there was some divine source that set it up that way. We have the Earth positioned just the right distance away from the sun, just the right distance away from the moon, that gravity doesn't crush us or the temperature kill us. It's a very small chance that it would be just in the right position. Is it possible that it just happened to be that way? Yes, but I think it's quite a stretch, and supernatural power makes much more sense than just "coincidence," IMO. I also believe that God has given me signs, to help me figure out what to do, to warn me of certain things, to protect me, to let me know about things I've asked him. I'm not going to go too much into this, as this is very personal to me, and I like to stay quiet about those things, but some of these signs have been pretty amazing to me, and they are all the more reason for me to believe they were legit. |
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