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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2017 19:06:11 GMT
....but if a God, with a heavenly context exists, than that is not the end of the story for those people. That doesn't necessarily follow. Whether there is an afterlife - and if so, what it is like - is a separate question of whether there is a god. And bear in mind, for some conceptions of god and religion, those people who suffered all their lives? They're now burning in hell forever. Few conceptions of hell have any connection to justice. That is not the question at all. But no, though it somewhat depends on one's conception of heaven, I do not want heaven for anybody. |
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Post by johnblutarsky on Sept 6, 2017 19:29:35 GMT
Here I will call total and complete bullshit to anyone voting no.... Since the afterlife was brought up: Imagine (if you will) it's your birthday and you can have your favorite meal or perform your favorite activity or visit your favorite location. Pretty nice, right? Now imagine having your favorite meal (or performing your favorite activity or visiting your favorite location) every day for a year...every day for 10 years...50 years...90 years etc. It would get really old, I would presume. Imagine an infinite amount of time in front of you. I don't think that an afterlife exists, but even if it did and it was the most fantastic place anyone could possibly imagine....an eternity of anything (no matter how great) would seem like hell after awhile. Once I'm dead, I won't realize that I'm dead....mainly because I'll be....you know....dead! That's OK for me. People need to worry more about the life that they know they have and less about what happens in an unverifiable afterlife. |
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Post by phludowin on Sept 6, 2017 19:48:46 GMT
It has been asked and answered numerous times now that the OP does not specify one religion or another. The "heaven is not for everyone" theological belief is not what you are being asked about. I was asked whether I want god or a religion to be true. The OP said to assume the religion(s) I am most familiar with. Those religions all have a limited access to "Heaven". So I was being on topic. I don't think I want any of those religions to be true. Second of all, you are criticizing human use of religion rather than anything to do with the OP question. God could presumably be real and the vast majority of mankind may have been quite wrong about what they believed or how they used religion. Again, none of this addresses the OP. Religion is a human-made concept. All religions and deities on Earth are made up by humans. I don't follow a religion. Why would I want any of them to be true? |
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Post by Terrapin Station on Sept 6, 2017 19:50:02 GMT
I don't think that an afterlife exists, but even if it did and it was the most fantastic place anyone could possibly imagine....an eternity of anything (no matter how great) would seem like hell after awhile. If there were an ideal god, he should be able to make it seem fresh to you for an eternity, though. |
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Post by johnblutarsky on Sept 6, 2017 20:09:55 GMT
I don't think that an afterlife exists, but even if it did and it was the most fantastic place anyone could possibly imagine....an eternity of anything (no matter how great) would seem like hell after awhile. If there were an ideal god, he should be able to make it seem fresh to you for an eternity, though. Like switching up Taco Tuesdays with Taquito Tuesdays....every million years or so? |
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Post by mslo79 on Sept 9, 2017 8:31:48 GMT
Whether you want or believe religion to be true does not matter. God (i.e. The Holy Trinity (Father/Son(Jesus Christ)/Holy Spirit)) exists.
but who would not want it to be true? ; being full of joy for eternity (like well beyond any pleasure you can experience here on earth), who would not want that?
p.s. voting No makes no sense given what we already know about God through the Catholic church. who wouldn't want heaven to exist?
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Post by cupcakes on Sept 9, 2017 12:56:33 GMT
tpfkar Whether you want or believe religion to be true does not matter. God (i.e. The Holy Trinity (Father/Son(Jesus Christ)/Holy Spirit)) exists. ...in your butt. Who would want to be ruled by a Stalin or Kim Jong-un or any grisly Psychopath and be part of their ball of snakes? And why would a real Christian want to be part of the Blasphemy Church in any case? |
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Post by clusium on Sept 9, 2017 13:13:27 GMT
tpfkar Whether you want or believe religion to be true does not matter. God (i.e. The Holy Trinity (Father/Son(Jesus Christ)/Holy Spirit)) exists. ...in your butt. Who would want to be ruled by a Stalin or Kim Jong-un or any grisly Psychopath and be part of their ball of snakes? And why would a real Christian want to be part of the Blasphemy Church in any case? Well, we Christians, Buddhists, Jews, or any other religious people certainly wouldn't, however, I do not see why an anti-theist atheist such as yourself would not, seeing that states that were/are under the power of Stalin, Kim Jong-un, etc., seeing as religion is highly illegal in those places. Also, as an anti-theist, just who are you to call any church a "blasphemy church" anyway? |
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Post by cupcakes on Sept 9, 2017 13:22:36 GMT
tpfkar ...in your butt. Who would want to be ruled by a Stalin or Kim Jong-un or any grisly Psychopath and be part of their ball of snakes? And why would a real Christian want to be part of the Blasphemy Church in any case? Well, we Christians, Buddhists, Jews, or any other religious people certainly wouldn't, however, I do not see why an anti-theist atheist such as yourself would not, seeing that states that were/are under the power of Stalin, Kim Jong-un, etc., seeing as religion is highly illegal in those places. All of those states had their own autocratic God to worship, much like the Catholic Church, who, identically to those other regimes made all other religions but their own illegal and punishable by brutal violence and death. Not me, from actual Christians who follow faiths that didn't make up crap as they went along and enforce it at the tip of the sword, regardless of the hisses of the think-impaired cultists.  And not "a blasphemy church", the Blasphemy Church, the autocratic pathological biggee.
fellow intelligent posters, like Ada and Monkeydoctor |
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Post by clusium on Sept 9, 2017 15:36:42 GMT
Well, we Christians, Buddhists, Jews, or any other religious people certainly wouldn't, however, I do not see why an anti-theist atheist such as yourself would not, seeing that states that were/are under the power of Stalin, Kim Jong-un, etc., seeing as religion is highly illegal in those places. All of those states had their own autocratic God to worship, much like the Catholic Church, who, identically to those other regimes made all other religions but their own illegal and punishable by brutal violence and death. Not me, from actual Christians who follow faiths that didn't make up crap as they went along and enforce it at the tip of the sword, regardless of the hisses of the think-impaired cultists. And not "a blasphemy church", the Blasphemy Church, the autocratic pathological biggee.
fellow intelligent posters, like Ada and MonkeydoctorA lot of religions made it illegal & punishable by brutal violence & death, to not belong to the state religion, & yes, that even includes atheism, whenever it has been in power (the afore-mentioned Stalin, etc). Catholics were also persecuted by Protestants too, don't forget. The majority of Christians that were persecuted under Stalin, were either Orthodox or Catholic. Very few were Protestant, let alone, from Evangelical churches which were only around at the most a couple of hundred years, & founded in North America, a good thousand miles away from Israel, where Christian originated. As an anti-theist atheist, what do you even know what a Blasphemy church even is? Oh yeah, from those so-called "christians" who make up their own interpretations of what the Holy Bible teaches, as they go along. I would never leave the Catholic Church, but, even if I were to, I would pick Orthodoxy over Protestantism any way. |
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Post by cupcakes on Sept 9, 2017 16:17:13 GMT
tpfkar All of those states had their own autocratic God to worship, much like the Catholic Church, who, identically to those other regimes made all other religions but their own illegal and punishable by brutal violence and death. Not me, from actual Christians who follow faiths that didn't make up crap as they went along and enforce it at the tip of the sword, regardless of the hisses of the think-impaired cultists. And not "a blasphemy church", the Blasphemy Church, the autocratic pathological biggee.
fellow intelligent posters, like Ada and MonkeydoctorA lot of religions made it illegal & punishable by brutal violence & death, to not belong to the state religion, & yes, that even includes atheism, whenever it has been in power (the afore-mentioned Stalin, etc). Catholics were also persecuted by Protestants too, don't forget. The majority of Christians that were persecuted under Stalin, were either Orthodox or Catholic. Very few were Protestant, let alone, from Evangelical churches which were only around at the most a couple of hundred years, & founded in North America, a good thousand miles away from Israel, where Christian originated. As an anti-theist atheist, what do you even know what a Blasphemy church even is? Oh yeah, from those so-called "christians" who make up their own interpretations of what the Holy Bible teaches, as they go along. I would never leave the Catholic Church, but, even if I were to, I would pick Orthodoxy over Protestantism any way. "Atheism" does absolutely nothing but scoff at the various fantasy delusions others try to use to retard and repress, whether of brutal and rapacious gods, premieres, popes or other maniacs. And of course each of the various oppressing coteries see their counterparts as threats to their garnering and holding of power and so when able to they slaughter each other. What would-be "protestants" were brutally crushed and only started making a comeback with Martin Luther when faced with the enduring tentacled corruption that was Catholicism. And of course I know what a blasphemy church is. One just has to examine the archetype, the Catholic Church.
I suppose you are the type of person who believe Adolf Hitler was an altruist then, if you think Mother Teresa was evil. |
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Post by drystyx on Sept 9, 2017 16:36:16 GMT
The only honest answer is "Hell No!" You are speaking of a "god", someone whose thumb we are under, and no one but a masochist wants to be under anyone's thumb, particularly for Eternity.
Unfortunately, it is proven we are under the power of hateful beings (or a hateful being), a true Devil, when we live in organic flesh. The "prince" of this world is a true monster. Proof? Yes. Can you jump over another star? Can you walk through molten lava? Can you even leave your brain and body?
So, only the most deluded of morons lives in the wishful world of materialism. We'd all like to. That would be so much easier, but logic dictates that if you're in a prison, with no apparent way out, actually born there magically, then some hateful being put you there.
The fundamentalist calls the hateful devil their God. It's apparent that this isn't the god of the Holy Ghost. But even the Holy Ghost, in all its goodness, is scarier than merely nothing. However, it is a necessary break from Satan.
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Post by clusium on Sept 9, 2017 17:51:38 GMT
tpfkar A lot of religions made it illegal & punishable by brutal violence & death, to not belong to the state religion, & yes, that even includes atheism, whenever it has been in power (the afore-mentioned Stalin, etc). Catholics were also persecuted by Protestants too, don't forget. The majority of Christians that were persecuted under Stalin, were either Orthodox or Catholic. Very few were Protestant, let alone, from Evangelical churches which were only around at the most a couple of hundred years, & founded in North America, a good thousand miles away from Israel, where Christian originated. As an anti-theist atheist, what do you even know what a Blasphemy church even is? Oh yeah, from those so-called "christians" who make up their own interpretations of what the Holy Bible teaches, as they go along. I would never leave the Catholic Church, but, even if I were to, I would pick Orthodoxy over Protestantism any way. "Atheism" does absolutely nothing but scoff at the various fantasy delusions others try to use to retard and repress, whether of brutal and rapacious gods, premieres, popes or other maniacs. And of course each of the various oppressing coteries see their counterparts as threats to their garnering and holding of power and so when able to they slaughter each other. What would-be "protestants" were brutally crushed and only started making a comeback with Martin Luther when faced with the enduring tentacled corruption that was Catholicism. And of course I know what a blasphemy church is. One just has to examine the archetype, the Catholic Church.
I suppose you are the type of person who believe Adolf Hitler was an altruist then, if you think Mother Teresa was evil.When atheism is in power, it oppresses people of faith in exactly the same way that you just describe: The fact is, Communist regimes were atheistic, because its founder, Karl Marx was an atheist who had said "Religion is the opium of the masses," so, his followers decided to live up to his teachings on religion, when they had seized power, & crushed anybody who dared to continue to worship God, in spite of what the state had decreed. No the archetype of a blasphemy church is one that would go exactly by the views which you espouse, Cupcakes, Rabbit, or whatever else you can call yourself on any message forum. |
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Post by cupcakes on Sept 9, 2017 18:00:40 GMT
tpfkar "Atheism" does absolutely nothing but scoff at the various fantasy delusions others try to use to retard and repress, whether of brutal and rapacious gods, premieres, popes or other maniacs. And of course each of the various oppressing coteries see their counterparts as threats to their garnering and holding of power and so when able to they slaughter each other. What would-be "protestants" were brutally crushed and only started making a comeback with Martin Luther when faced with the enduring tentacled corruption that was Catholicism. And of course I know what a blasphemy church is. One just has to examine the archetype, the Catholic Church.
I suppose you are the type of person who believe Adolf Hitler was an altruist then, if you think Mother Teresa was evil.When atheism is in power, it oppresses people of faith in exactly the same way that you just describe: The fact is, Communist regimes were atheistic, because its founder, Karl Marx was an atheist who had said "Religion is the opium of the masses," so, his followers decided to live up to his teachings on religion, when they had seized power, & crushed anybody who dared to continue to worship God, in spite of what the state had decreed. "Atheism in power" is pure babble. Atheism isn't a thing to be in power. Simply the rejection of religious delusion. And of course the tyrants who set themselves up as personal cults will see religions besides themselves as competitors to be ground down. They do have the brutality of the Catholic Church as example for centuries long bloody repression. You mad splashy? Not my fault you follow the religion of blasphemous idols and brutality.
Oh, he cares alright!!! HE **HATES** HER!!!! Her intercession with Son Is POWERFUL!!!! |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2017 18:08:50 GMT
Unfortunately, it is proven we are under the power of hateful beings (or a hateful being), a true Devil Come on, there's no need to bring Donald Trump into this. |
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Post by clusium on Sept 9, 2017 18:20:28 GMT
When atheism is in power, it oppresses people of faith in exactly the same way that you just describe: The fact is, Communist regimes were atheistic, because its founder, Karl Marx was an atheist who had said "Religion is the opium of the masses," so, his followers decided to live up to his teachings on religion, when they had seized power, & crushed anybody who dared to continue to worship God, in spite of what the state had decreed. "Atheism in power" is pure babble. Atheism isn't a thing to be in power. Simply the rejection of religious delusion. And of course the tyrants who set themselves up as personal cults will see religions besides themselves as competitors to be ground down. They do have the brutality of the Catholic Church as example for centuries long bloody repression. You mad splashy? Not my fault you follow the religion of blasphemous idols and brutality.
Oh, he cares alright!!! HE **HATES** HER!!!! Her intercession with Son Is POWERFUL!!!!It is when it is POV of the particular ideology (which it just so happens to be, of Communism). No, I'm not mad, Rabbit. I am just making a personal observation of your attitude towards religion & spirituality. As an atheist, you make excuses for when atheism has been in power, rather than face the reality that atheists can be just as fanatical as any religious person can be. |
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Post by cupcakes on Sept 9, 2017 18:33:19 GMT
tpfkar "Atheism in power" is pure babble. Atheism isn't a thing to be in power. Simply the rejection of religious delusion. And of course the tyrants who set themselves up as personal cults will see religions besides themselves as competitors to be ground down. They do have the brutality of the Catholic Church as example for centuries long bloody repression. You mad splashy? Not my fault you follow the religion of blasphemous idols and brutality.
Oh, he cares alright!!! HE **HATES** HER!!!! Her intercession with Son Is POWERFUL!!!!It is when it is POV of the particular ideology (which it just so happens to be, of Communism). Nope, it's just the pitiful false equivalence that the culpable have to dive to. Atheism certainly doesn't prevent people from being sociopaths, but it certainly prevents a whole class built upon the innate repression that otherworldly religion brings. I'm afraid you give it away with your "rabbit" spittle and twitches. As someone who has no reason to believe in a ludicrous god, and even thinks "supernatural" is an oxymoron, I still understand full well that tribalism and delusion can affect all classes of people. Religion is just the most potent actuator of it ever found. Look at the millennia-long epoch that the brutal Catholic Church held sway. And it still cons multitudes and leads them to harm themselves to this day. 
I only do what my Lord commands. |
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Post by clusium on Sept 9, 2017 19:53:52 GMT
tpfkar It is when it is POV of the particular ideology (which it just so happens to be, of Communism). Nope, it's just the pitiful false equivalence that the culpable have to dive to. Atheism certainly doesn't prevent people from being sociopaths, but it certainly prevents a whole class built upon the innate repression that otherworldly religion brings. I'm afraid you give it away with your "rabbit" spittle and twitches. As someone who has no reason to believe in a ludicrous god, and even thinks "supernatural" is an oxymoron, I still understand full well that tribalism and delusion can affect all classes of people. Religion is just the most potent actuator of it ever found. Look at the millennia-long epoch that the brutal Catholic Church held sway. And it still cons multitudes and leads them to harm themselves to this day.
I only do what my Lord commands.Wrong. There is no false equivalence. Communism was/is an atheistic ideology, which suppressed the Freedom of Religion. Religion doesn't prevent people from becoming sociopaths either. But it opens the mind up to the spiritual view of the universe. In what way does addressing you by your former user ID give something away about me?   Personally, I don't see why you would not want to live in a society that was under the likes of a Marx or a Stalin. Your views on religion fits theirs to a 'T.' |
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Post by cupcakes on Sept 9, 2017 20:11:43 GMT
tpfkar Nope, it's just the pitiful false equivalence that the culpable have to dive to. Atheism certainly doesn't prevent people from being sociopaths, but it certainly prevents a whole class built upon the innate repression that otherworldly religion brings. I'm afraid you give it away with your "rabbit" spittle and twitches. As someone who has no reason to believe in a ludicrous god, and even thinks "supernatural" is an oxymoron, I still understand full well that tribalism and delusion can affect all classes of people. Religion is just the most potent actuator of it ever found. Look at the millennia-long epoch that the brutal Catholic Church held sway. And it still cons multitudes and leads them to harm themselves to this day.
I only do what my Lord commands.Wrong. There is no false equivalence. Communism was/is an atheistic ideology, which suppressed the Freedom of Religion. Religion doesn't prevent people from becoming sociopaths either. But it opens the mind up to the spiritual view of the universe. Stalinism and the other megalomaniac-isms suppressed any opposition, of course. But the guilt-ridden do need something to cower under, so you just double down and worship your mortal beasts as you do the Grand Warlock. What it opens the mind to is attacking those that do not conform to the arbitrary dogma, via command. It shows your spittly collapse, desperately flailing for anything. And of course you feel free to post nonsense in the support of your pernicious con group. I however am against tyrants whether they wear dresses or military tunics, or anything else, and certainly not in favor of sacrificing children in the cynical effort to prop a debauched and repressive organization.
I think it is very beautiful for the poor to accept their lot, to share it with the passion of Christ. I think the world is being much helped by the suffering of the poor people. |
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Post by clusium on Sept 9, 2017 22:07:18 GMT
Wrong. There is no false equivalence. Communism was/is an atheistic ideology, which suppressed the Freedom of Religion. Religion doesn't prevent people from becoming sociopaths either. But it opens the mind up to the spiritual view of the universe. Stalinism and the other megalomaniac-isms suppressed any opposition, of course. But the guilt-ridden do need something to cower under, so you just double down and worship your mortal beasts as you do the Grand Warlock. What it opens the mind to is attacking those that do not conform to the arbitrary dogma, via command. It shows your spittly collapse, desperately flailing for anything. And of course you feel free to post nonsense in the support of your pernicious con group. I however am against tyrants whether they wear dresses or military tunics, or anything else, and certainly not in favor of sacrificing children in the cynical effort to prop a debauched and repressive organization.
I think it is very beautiful for the poor to accept their lot, to share it with the passion of Christ. I think the world is being much helped by the suffering of the poor people.If that were the case, then how come in Communist countries, they chose to attack those that chose to "conform to said arbitrary dogma....?" I have seen Vegas Devil call you by your former user ID too, & yet, we all know that he is the most  poster on this message forum. And I don't know of anyone that is for tyrants of any kind either. Actually, its that line of talking, which eventually leads up to a tyrannical system such as Communism, anyway. |
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