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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2017 14:06:45 GMT
That time of year again - Halloween Season - so it's time for one of my favorite movies and I think this always sparks an interesting debate. Was Ben really 'good' or 'evil'? Does he do more harm than good? Ben first rejects the idea of going down into the cellar stating it's a death trap and wants to be the 'Alpha Dog' - his half assed decision making got people killed - then he turns into a murderer by killing Cooper. What does Ben do next - he flees into the cellar which was first suggested when the chips are down and everyone else is dead. Ben - protagonist or antagonist? Thoughts? Go!  |
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Post by novastar6 on Sept 8, 2017 18:00:01 GMT
Ben said the basement should only be a last resort, and let's face it, if 5 zombies can turn over a car, that basement door would've busted off its hinges if the actual whole house full of zombies was trying to get in instead of the one lone 5 year old girl zombie. And he got people killed? How? First off Judy was supposed to stay in the house, her getting her stupid jacket caught in the door is what got she and Tom killed. And then consider how many hours it took him to board up the whole house by himself, if Cooper hadn't been such a coward, and come up when he first heard Barbra screaming, they could've all gotten out of there when there were only 3 zombies to deal with.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2017 20:19:46 GMT
Ben said the basement should only be a last resort, and let's face it, if 5 zombies can turn over a car, that basement door would've busted off its hinges if the actual whole house full of zombies was trying to get in instead of the one lone 5 year old girl zombie. And he got people killed? How? First off Judy was supposed to stay in the house, her getting her stupid jacket caught in the door is what got she and Tom killed. And then consider how many hours it took him to board up the whole house by himself, if Cooper hadn't been such a coward, and come up when he first heard Barbra screaming, they could've all gotten out of there when there were only 3 zombies to deal with. He got people killed by being the 'Alpha' and have people follow his direction. Maybe if they went into the basement like Coop suggested - they could have survived the night - I mean - look what happened the next morning - rescue teams were on their way. Plus he shot and killed Coop in cold blood. I think if you watch it again - from a different perspective - you can see my points. Sometimes 'leaders' in life need to get 'fired' because they do their jobs poorly. Ben was a poor leader. I gained a whole new respect for this movie and started viewing movies with an open mind and trying to take different perspectives of what may or may not be obvious. This is a great clip about a great movie - The Karate Kid - it explains how Daniel was actually the 'real' Bully in the movie. Enjoy |
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Post by novastar6 on Sept 8, 2017 22:05:23 GMT
Wrong. If they all went into the basement they all would've died, why? Because Karen would still become a zombie, and she'd start eating somebody. And would Cooper hear about locking her out of the basement? No, would he hear of shooting his daughter to save the rest of them? No. So he likely would've taken the gun and killed Ben for even suggesting a thing, and then Karen would've eaten them all because he still wouldn't have it in him to pull the trigger on his zombie daughter, and Ben would've eaten them too because if he died, he'd come back as a zombie too.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2017 22:27:03 GMT
Wrong. If they all went into the basement they all would've died, why? Because Karen would still become a zombie, and she'd start eating somebody. And would Cooper hear about locking her out of the basement? No, would he hear of shooting his daughter to save the rest of them? No. So he likely would've taken the gun and killed Ben for even suggesting a thing, and then Karen would've eaten them all because he still wouldn't have it in him to pull the trigger on his zombie daughter, and Ben would've eaten them too because if he died, he'd come back as a zombie too. I'm pretty sure if the little kid became a zombie a group of adults would have overpowered her and eventually killed her if they were all huddled up in the basement ..... |
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Post by novastar6 on Sept 8, 2017 23:45:17 GMT
Including her dear old dad? Hell no, he wouldn't have it.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2017 23:52:53 GMT
It's been years since I saw it, but Ben is awesome and his death was a travesty |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2017 0:36:59 GMT
It's been years since I saw it, but Ben is awesome and his death was a travesty It was poetic justice for getting people killed under 'his watch' and killing Coop in cold blood - especially after refusing to initially go down into the cellar stating it was a death trap. What does Ben then do when everyone else he got killed is dead - he flees into the basement  Sweet Justice - Karma came a lookin' for Ben at the end |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2017 0:40:44 GMT
Including her dear old dad? Hell no, he wouldn't have it. Then he would have been zombie food and the first to go trying to protect her - the rest of the adults would have taken Coop down eventually. It's a shame Ben had to be such a pig headed stubborn alpha that refused to have an open mind - and it was either his way or the highway - and it was 'his way - and he got everyone killed in the process  |
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Post by Flynn on Sept 9, 2017 2:14:03 GMT
I do like the irony that Ben was wrong about the cellar, but I don't see him as being at fault for the deaths of Tom and Judy. Tom was at fault for being too hasty. Ben's also not at fault for killing Harry's wife. The daughter killed her and could have killed her in the basement. Barbara is a toss-up. If the gas plan had gone as planned, no one would have died. As for killing Harry, Harry did try to kill Ben just a few minutes before (which must be taken under consideration), and Harry also did just have a gun pointed on Ben just before Ben kills him. Both men were acting irrationally, and I can see the point-of-view of both. Ben should not have shot Harry in cold blood, but I don't see that as making him evil. He clearly perceived Harry as a threat, having been betrayed twice by him.
As for the Karate Kid video, there are some convenient omissions and also some over-statements that distort the reality of the film to support the video's premise.
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Post by moviebuffbrad on Sept 9, 2017 2:19:46 GMT
One of the things I like about this movie is the that it's not black and white (well, figuritively). Ben was more likable (and justified in shooting Coop, I'd say), but Coop was ultimately right about the basement.
Things felt more two dimensional in the remake.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2017 2:28:46 GMT
One of the things I like about this movie is the that it's not black and white (well, figuritively). . nice. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2017 2:30:56 GMT
We seem to be building up a lil steam here folks how 'Coop' was actually right - all it takes is an open mind and a new perspective on how one initially first viewed the film |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2017 12:27:48 GMT
Ben was the villain = the call is coming from inside the house.
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Post by novastar6 on Sept 9, 2017 16:36:29 GMT
We seem to be building up a lil steam here folks how 'Coop' was actually right - all it takes is an open mind and a new perspective on how one initially first viewed the film The only reason he wound up being 'right' is that out of a whole house full of zombies, the ONLY one trying to open the door is his daughter. There were what, 20 zombies in that house? If they were all trying to get in the cellar, how long would that door have lasted? |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2017 16:46:04 GMT
We seem to be building up a lil steam here folks how 'Coop' was actually right - all it takes is an open mind and a new perspective on how one initially first viewed the film The only reason he wound up being 'right' is that out of a whole house full of zombies, the ONLY one trying to open the door is his daughter. There were what, 20 zombies in that house? If they were all trying to get in the cellar, how long would that door have lasted? It's my understanding that zombies go after what they 'know is there'. Hence - if they all hid down in the cellar without zombies noticing - I highly doubt the cellar door would attract 20 of the Walking Dead pounding on it trying to get in. The zombies attention would be elsewhere and they'd just keep 'roaming' and looking for flesh and brains outside. Ben's miscue was not listening to Coop right off the bat - if he did - they would have been saved the next morning. |
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Post by novastar6 on Sept 9, 2017 20:43:20 GMT
The only reason he wound up being 'right' is that out of a whole house full of zombies, the ONLY one trying to open the door is his daughter. There were what, 20 zombies in that house? If they were all trying to get in the cellar, how long would that door have lasted? It's my understanding that zombies go after what they 'know is there'. Hence - if they all hid down in the cellar without zombies noticing - I highly doubt the cellar door would attract 20 of the Walking Dead pounding on it trying to get in. The zombies attention would be elsewhere and they'd just keep 'roaming' and looking for flesh and brains outside. Ben's miscue was not listening to Coop right off the bat - if he did - they would have been saved the next morning. 3 of them broke into an empty shed before they were shot by the posse. There was nothing to 'know is there', but they still tried it. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2017 20:46:51 GMT
It's my understanding that zombies go after what they 'know is there'. Hence - if they all hid down in the cellar without zombies noticing - I highly doubt the cellar door would attract 20 of the Walking Dead pounding on it trying to get in. The zombies attention would be elsewhere and they'd just keep 'roaming' and looking for flesh and brains outside. Ben's miscue was not listening to Coop right off the bat - if he did - they would have been saved the next morning. 3 of them broke into an empty shed before they were shot by the posse. There was nothing to 'know is there', but they still tried it. are you sure they didn't hear a squirrel?  |
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Post by tresix on Sept 9, 2017 22:13:59 GMT
3 of them broke into an empty shed before they were shot by the posse. There was nothing to 'know is there', but they still tried it. are you sure they didn't hear a squirrel? |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2017 22:18:36 GMT
are you sure they didn't hear a squirrel? Coop was toast from the gun shot from Ben - it was just a matter of time - he was a gonner ..... |
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