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Post by gadreel on Sept 12, 2017 22:52:00 GMT
For one who can never provide evidence when asked for after making extraordinary claims, this is ironic. I'm really getting annoyed at your ignorance of evidence. Things don't cease to exist simply you can't see them. Many people learned that as infants. Peekaboo! I think there should be a law against the lie that there is no evidence. I'll get to work on that. I will need to consider the freedom of speech issue. I might not be able to stop the lies everywhere, but I might prevent them being taught in schools. As opposed to legislating against peoples appraisal of the supplied evidence, surely someone making a point should be expected to provide credible evidence? |
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Post by thefleetsin on Sept 12, 2017 23:22:04 GMT
quick check-in:
still no proof.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Sept 13, 2017 9:03:55 GMT
For one who can never provide evidence when asked for after making extraordinary claims, this is ironic.
 That "No, here's they're position so I have something to argue with" device... It is hard to dispute when there is no position on the other side. Fortunately Arlon has plenty to offer lol |
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Sept 13, 2017 9:17:51 GMT
I'm really getting annoyed at your ignorance of evidence. Then show some evidence and then I won't be ignorant of it. As always at this point, I will say that personal credulity, as in the God of the Gaps Argument I saw from you recently, and the hearsay claims of scripture, are not really evidence. Unfortunately, we are no longer children and adults require more than that to prove a positive. Not everything which might exist necessarily does. The deliberate supernatural for instance, favoured by primitive societies as the only explanation for the unknown. Feel free to disprove that lie at any time. Naturally if there was a law (and inevitably it came to court) you would need to show some controverting evidence. Remember what happened at the Dover trial? I do. Perhaps you can draft the new legislation after you submit your patented appeal against the aforementioned landmark decision? Do you mean the 'lies' of evolutionary theory taught in public schools? You will need to prove such as false claims first with evidence to show. Will that still be a problem? |
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Post by faustus5 on Sept 13, 2017 10:34:18 GMT
Actually, it is religious belief that thrives on, even depends on, privilege: the privilege of being free from the kinds of rigorous standards we apply to any other serious subject. Requiring discussion of complex and nebulous forces in nature and society to fit a pedestrian view of reality is not a useful "rigorous standard." Correct. One only wishes those who possess religious beliefs would at least attempt to discuss the matter in a complex and sophisticated way with a serious approach to accurate modeling of objective reality. Instead, we have people like you. |
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Post by johnblutarsky on Sept 13, 2017 14:43:53 GMT
What real "evidence" is there of a person actually dying, experiencing an afterlife, and returning to tell the factual tale? This evidence would have to be more than what can be explained by the process of the brain starting to shutdown. Most recently Colton Burpo and Dr. Mary C. Neal I'm not sure about the examples that you provided. Perhaps a link would help. Anyway, the illusion of "passing on to an afterlife" can be recreated with electrical impulses to specific parts of the brain and/or through certain types of drugs. It doesn't take much to throw a person's chemistry off. During trauma, the brain can imagine all sorts of things. Heck, even during normal sleep, a person can imagine all sorts of things. It would make sense for a person to imagine the things that they already know about. It's not surprising that a person who has been told (sometimes repeatedly) about Heaven/Hell would imagine images of these "places." Most so-called experiences of an afterlife have been debunked or explained. Unfortunately, afterlife is a convenient scenario that would only prove itself after a person is dead. Even if there is an afterlife, I'm not sure how I would process any sort of input or retain any memories of events. |
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Sept 13, 2017 15:14:36 GMT
Most recently Colton Burpo and Dr. Mary C. Neal I'm not sure about the examples that you provided. Perhaps a link would help.
FYI:
Colton Burpo is the child who, while the surgeons were fighting to save him – he visited heaven, sat on Jesus’s lap, patted his rainbow-striped horse [sic] and was serenaded by winged angels. The youngster’s extraordinary story has since been turned into a Hollywood movie called Heaven Is For Real. One can see how Burpo's account is coloured more by childhood fantasy than an account of any objective reality.
Dr Mary C Neal (who also has a book to sell, namely To Heaven and Back) is a spine surgeon who almost drowned while kayaking on a remote South American river. She experienced life after death. She went to heaven and back, conversed with Jesus and experienced God's encompassing love. She was returned to Earth with some specific instructions for work she still needed to do, some of which had to do with the coming death of her oldest son. Her life has been one filled with the miracles and intervention of God and her story gives reason to live by faith. Oh, and did I mention she has a book to sell?
One can see that both these examples specifically see their experience from a traditional Christian perspective- which is interesting as the research into such alleged instances has shown them to be more convincing as an experience when non-specific culturally and impersonal; ah well.. Granted, Neal did not get to see the rainbow-coloured horses (being not mentioned in Revelations and, er, not at all suggestive of hallucinations) or even sit on Christ's lap, but still managed to fit in a few angels and miracles apparently.
This is a review off Amazon:
It ought to be said that there are favourable reviews too, characteristically gushing and credulous. |
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