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Post by cupcakes on Sept 11, 2017 18:41:55 GMT
tpfkar What real "evidence" is there of a person actually dying, experiencing an afterlife, and returning to tell the factual tale? This evidence would have to be more than what can be explained by the process of the brain starting to shutdown. When the brain shuts down, that's called death. Hope that helps. When the body suffers such damage as to not be able to ever support consciousness again is when death occurs. Any other "death" in the discussion of afterlife is pure semantic wankery. You freely admit communicating with evil aliens, inside your head. I don't think I phrased it like that, but what if I did? What are you going to do about it?
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Post by Arlon10 on Sept 11, 2017 21:10:23 GMT
And it is unknown. When you say "there is no evidence" you lie. There is plenty of evidence, you have just not seen it first hand. You lie because you are weak and foolish. What real "evidence" is there of a person actually dying, experiencing an afterlife, and returning to tell the factual tale? This evidence would have to be more than what can be explained by the process of the brain starting to shutdown. Most recently Colton Burpo and Dr. Mary C. Neal
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Post by Arlon10 on Sept 11, 2017 21:13:44 GMT
tpfkar You're ignoring the profound fear many people have that they might not be in control. The existence of a god, of an afterlife and such things would mean they do not have the final word, that scares many people. They want to have the final word. Characterizing people who believe in an afterlife as weak and stupid is backwards, they're the ones with the courage and intelligence to face the unknown. And it is unknown. When you say "there is no evidence" you lie. There is plenty of evidence, you have just not seen it first hand. You lie because you are weak and foolish. The profound fear many have is that this is all that there is. They start grasping for all manner of utter crap in the attempt to get comfort. People of God did not have to kill them either because God killed them for us. The point remains that homosexuals are dumb, senseless animals that might need to be killed. I'm just going to let you have the last word. I think you might have a heart attack otherwise.
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Post by cupcakes on Sept 11, 2017 21:16:27 GMT
tpfkar The profound fear many have is that this is all that there is. They start grasping for all manner of utter crap in the attempt to get comfort. People of God did not have to kill them either because God killed them for us. The point remains that homosexuals are dumb, senseless animals that might need to be killed. I'm just going to let you have the last word. I think you might have a heart attack otherwise. Thanks man! Always the wise choice when you have nothing substantial or even coherent to offer. I hope this is a new leaf for you.  I can diagram sentences. It's not like I can't.
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Sept 11, 2017 21:28:56 GMT
tpfkar The profound fear many have is that this is all that there is. They start grasping for all manner of utter crap in the attempt to get comfort. People of God did not have to kill them either because God killed them for us. The point remains that homosexuals are dumb, senseless animals that might need to be killed. I'm just going to let you have the last word. I think you might have a heart attack otherwise. He always gets the last word, even if the only way he can get it is to copy-paste the same nonsense over and over again. Getting the last word must make him feel as if he has achieved something.
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Post by phludowin on Sept 11, 2017 21:47:23 GMT
What real "evidence" is there of a person actually dying, experiencing an afterlife, and returning to tell the factual tale? This evidence would have to be more than what can be explained by the process of the brain starting to shutdown. Most recently Colton Burpo and Dr. Mary C. Neal Colton Burpo admitted that he made his story up; Mary Neal was already a Christian before her not so recent near-death experience. Not exactly convincing evidence.
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Post by Arlon10 on Sept 11, 2017 21:49:34 GMT
Most recently Colton Burpo and Dr. Mary C. Neal Colton Burpo admitted that he made his story up; Mary Neal was already a Christian before her not so recent near-death experience. Not exactly convincing evidence. Not everyone who sees evidence first hand chooses to go public with the information. There are a lot of those. I'm sorry you can't benefit from them.
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Post by phludowin on Sept 11, 2017 21:55:05 GMT
Not everyone who sees evidence first hand chooses to go public with the information. There are a lot of those. I'm sorry you can't benefit from them. Yeah right. And the Emperor's clothes are only visible to those worthy of their job. Afterlife propagandists who want to convince unbiased people will have to do better than that.
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Post by cupcakes on Sept 11, 2017 22:27:44 GMT
tpfkar I'm just going to let you have the last word. I think you might have a heart attack otherwise. He always gets the last word, even if the only way he can get it is to copy-paste the same nonsense over and over again. Getting the last word must make him feel as if he has achieved something. God have mercy on my soles, I do enjoy the howls & tears!
EDIT -- Oh, and I just reported the POS for the "love letter" shit. If you want to join him, keep doing what you're doing.
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Post by Arlon10 on Sept 12, 2017 4:24:50 GMT
Not everyone who sees evidence first hand chooses to go public with the information. There are a lot of those. I'm sorry you can't benefit from them. Yeah right. And the Emperor's clothes are only visible to those worthy of their job. Afterlife propagandists who want to convince unbiased people will have to do better than that. Suppose I told you I'm not interested in convincing you about an afterlife? All I want is for atheists to be more civil and stop pretending science is on their "side" in all this. Then too, I suspect you have more intellectual curiosity about it then you admit.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Sept 12, 2017 10:08:58 GMT
Scott S. SmithIs There Evidence of Life After Death?02/21/2017 10:36 am ET Famous author of 'The Soul of Your Pet: Evidence for the Survival of Animals After Death', available at your latest bookstore. Whether animals have souls is theologically contentious, while souls exist at all remains to be shown to those many who have a purely mechanistic view of consciousness, say. What follows is a brief riposte to the post of Smith's article, ending with less than I might write for fear of taxing the reader. Skeptics simply ask for the extraordinary evidence necessary to give support to extraordinary claims. Or, it could just be that they find the evidence offered unconvincing ... 'subtle and complicated' sounds like a set up for some special pleading. But let us allow Mr Smith to go on.. This is just using 'militant' as swear word, and is unfortunate. So, is the purported 'paranormal world' another dimension of reality or not? Death-Bed Visions : Accompanied presumably by pet Sparky, barking at their side. A book which, it may be observed, Amazon and the internet have never heard of. And what makes a 'noted physic professor' an authority on the afterlife, anyway? From which one might draw the conclusion that the visions are caused by something very non-specific indeed, a process common to all. But now Smith has just offered an example which apparently contradicts the just previous findings, being personal and culturally specific! And again, in Smith's own words:
Which sounds reasonable, especially since Smith has above already mentioned that visions are caused by something very non-specific.
This does indeed appear to be a reasonable assertion, especially as we know that the subconscious mind, once delved into or stimulated can bring forth a host of material we thought we had forgotten or were unaware of.
According to Wiki: "Alexander is the author of the 2012 autobiographical book Proof of Heaven: A Neurosurgeon’s Journey into the Afterlife, in which he asserts that his out of body and near-death experience (NDE) while in a meningitis-induced coma in 2008 proves that consciousness is independent of the brain, that death is a transition, and that an eternity of perfect splendor awaits us beyond the grave – complete with angels, clouds, butterflies, and deceased relatives, one of whom included a beautiful girl in peasant dress whom Alexander later identifies as his deceased sister." If I had to pick an example of a hallucination which was both personal and culturally specific that would be one. More: "Esquire magazine reported that before the publication of Proof of Heaven, Alexander had been terminated or suspended from multiple hospital positions, and had been the subject of several malpractice lawsuits, including at least two involving the alteration of medical records to cover up a medical error.The magazine also found what it claimed were discrepancies with regard to Alexander's version of events in the book. Among the discrepancies, according to an account of the Esquire article in Forbes, was that "Alexander writes that he slipped into the coma as a result of severe bacterial meningitis and had no higher brain activity, while a doctor who cared for him says the coma was medically induced and the patient was conscious, though hallucinating.. " A different side to Alexander, indeed. These facts do not preclude some rave reviews on Amazon though from the credulous. Without a link it is hard to judge what the report says. My bet is that reactions to medications are sometimes very likely to cause hallucination indeed - especially the strong painkillers administered to those thought in extremis. And yet, other experiments have shown that patients who experience typical 'out of body' experiences, looking down on their near-dead selves, oddly enough do not see items placed deliberately on top shelves out of sight to all but those watching from their perspective. And so on. And now: Today Price's reputation has become tarnished by accusation of some fraud, at least. Of course even if ghosts exist, that does not mean a heaven does or even that they are 'alive', unless we care to redefine 'life' pretty drastically.. Mediums
The history of mediumship is indeed full of mendacity and fraud. And, as I have observed before messages purported to originate from the afterlife are always disappointing mundane and personal. If I was a mouthpiece for eternity I would want to take advantage of a privileged view to let my earth-bound listeners exactly what God hell and heaven look like - not just reiterate that Granny misses someone or a vague 'don't worry'.
On a personal note, I actually dated a medium once - someone who stood up in church halls and did readings. I found in real life she was just as unable to foresee misfortunes as I was, although she was unfamiliar with 'cold reading' as a method.
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Post by Arlon10 on Sept 12, 2017 10:41:53 GMT
... Skeptics simply ask for the extraordinary evidence necessary to give support to extraordinary claims. ... No, they want their mode of thinking to have privilege over religious beliefs. It deserves no privilege.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Sept 12, 2017 10:53:08 GMT
... Skeptics simply ask for the extraordinary evidence necessary to give support to extraordinary claims. ... No, they want their mode of thinking to have privilege over religious beliefs. It deserves no privilege. For one who can never provide evidence when asked for after making extraordinary claims, this is ironic.
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Post by Cinemachinery on Sept 12, 2017 16:48:24 GMT
No, they want their mode of thinking to have privilege over religious beliefs. It deserves no privilege. For one who can never provide evidence when asked for after making extraordinary claims, this is ironic.
 That "No, here's they're position so I have something to argue with" device...
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Post by faustus5 on Sept 12, 2017 16:51:22 GMT
No, they want their mode of thinking to have privilege over religious beliefs. It deserves no privilege. Actually, it is religious belief that thrives on, even depends on, privilege: the privilege of being free from the kinds of rigorous standards we apply to any other serious subject.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2017 20:21:51 GMT
tpfkar You're ignoring the profound fear many people have that they might not be in control. The existence of a god, of an afterlife and such things would mean they do not have the final word, that scares many people. They want to have the final word. Characterizing people who believe in an afterlife as weak and stupid is backwards, they're the ones with the courage and intelligence to face the unknown. And it is unknown. When you say "there is no evidence" you lie. There is plenty of evidence, you have just not seen it first hand. You lie because you are weak and foolish. The profound fear many have is that this is all that there is. They start grasping for all manner of utter crap in the attempt to get comfort. People of God did not have to kill them either because God killed them for us. The point remains that homosexuals are dumb, senseless animals that might need to be killed.Like you, for one, with your "free will" and "sanctity of life".
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Post by cupcakes on Sept 12, 2017 20:31:57 GMT
tpfkar The profound fear many have is that this is all that there is. They start grasping for all manner of utter crap in the attempt to get comfort. People of God did not have to kill them either because God killed them for us. The point remains that homosexuals are dumb, senseless animals that might need to be killed.Like you, for one, with your "free will" and "sanctity of life".  Work out that angst, Mr. I'm powerless before the Great Molecule Clack, yet I must furiously argue to change people who can't change because they have no free will aggrieve the nonexistent by birthing them dead can't care psychopathic plead lugubriously morbid asylum escapee. I certainly am not looking forward to it ending. Too much love and fun to happily leave behind, and I do possess empathy. I'm pretty sure that old age or infirmity makes you ready to go at some point. It's just pathology if you have that outlook from the beginning. Morally I would be fine with post-birth abortions, but I realise that this would probably be too radical to ever be implemented.
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Post by Arlon10 on Sept 12, 2017 22:07:16 GMT
No, they want their mode of thinking to have privilege over religious beliefs. It deserves no privilege. Actually, it is religious belief that thrives on, even depends on, privilege: the privilege of being free from the kinds of rigorous standards we apply to any other serious subject. Requiring discussion of complex and nebulous forces in nature and society to fit a pedestrian view of reality is not a useful "rigorous standard." There are several problems in society science cannot even begin to address, much less solve. If you were a real scientist I wouldn't have to explain that to you. Furthermore science can prove negatives, it's just you who can't.
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Post by Arlon10 on Sept 12, 2017 22:12:48 GMT
No, they want their mode of thinking to have privilege over religious beliefs. It deserves no privilege. For one who can never provide evidence when asked for after making extraordinary claims, this is ironic. I'm really getting annoyed at your ignorance of evidence. Things don't cease to exist simply you can't see them. Many people learned that as infants. Peekaboo! I think there should be a law against the lie that there is no evidence. I'll get to work on that. I will need to consider the freedom of speech issue. I might not be able to stop the lies everywhere, but I might prevent them being taught in schools.
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Post by cupcakes on Sept 12, 2017 22:50:24 GMT
tpfkar ... Skeptics simply ask for the extraordinary evidence necessary to give support to extraordinary claims. ... No, they want their mode of thinking to have privilege over religious beliefs. It deserves no privilege. Yet another Arlon Dictionary entry! People of God did not have to kill them either because God killed them for us. The point remains that homosexuals are dumb, senseless animals that might need to be killed.
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