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Post by ArArArchStanton on Sept 11, 2017 20:00:53 GMT
I'm honestly not sure anymore what DC fans mean when they say their characters are iconic, because it doesn't really seem to mean all that much. Man of Steel didn't do particularly well, Batman VS Superman definitely didn't do well coming up over 300 million short of Civil War, and now Wonder Woman has been hailed as a good film, but is still in third place behind Guardians of the Galaxy and the 6th Spiderman film.
So I point this out because the word iconic, can mean several things. I think DC fans tend to use the term as though their character are top end/ can't miss entertainment, and to a waning extent that's true. But more and more, I think the definition that suits them is just being merely recognizable, because they don't seem to have any significant drawing power over a number of characters that are much less recognizable. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2017 20:28:17 GMT
Now, don't be mean. You're basically kicking the kid has to wear a helmet at this point when you pick on the DC fans.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Sept 11, 2017 20:58:37 GMT
Now, don't be mean. You're basically kicking the kid has to wear a helmet at this point when you pick on the DC fans. I'm not, I'm actually just going over the reality of the situation and asking what good is saying the word iconic to reference characters when it clearly doesn't seem to make much of a difference. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2017 21:01:04 GMT
Now, don't be mean. You're basically kicking the kid has to wear a helmet at this point when you pick on the DC fans. I'm not, I'm actually just going over the reality of the situation and asking what good is saying the word iconic to reference characters when it clearly doesn't seem to make much of a difference. They're iconic in the sense that everyone recognizes these characters. Well, everyone recognizes Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman. But you are right in that does not equate to good films or high box office returns. Speaking of... poelzig ! Spider-Man: Homecoming, the supposed flop bypassed Wonder Woman! Is that a flop now, too!? |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2017 21:04:35 GMT
I'm honestly not sure anymore what DC fans mean when they say their characters are iconic, because it doesn't really seem to mean all that much. Man of Steel didn't do particularly well, Batman VS Superman definitely didn't do well coming up over 300 million short of Civil War, and now Wonder Woman has been hailed as a good film, but is still in third place behind Guardians of the Galaxy and the 6th Spiderman film.
So I point this out because the word iconic, can mean several things. I think DC fans tend to use the term as though their character are top end/ can't miss entertainment, and to a waning extent that's true. But more and more, I think the definition that suits them is just being merely recognizable, because they don't seem to have any significant drawing power over a number of characters that are much less recognizable. Wonder Woman was about as good as a slightly above average MCU movie. Everyone will have forgotton about it in 6 months time.....aside from desperate DCEU fanturds.  |
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Post by DC-Fan on Sept 11, 2017 22:11:07 GMT
I'm honestly not sure anymore what DC fans mean when they say their characters are iconic, because it doesn't really seem to mean all that much. Man of Steel didn't do particularly well, Batman VS Superman definitely didn't do well coming up over 300 million short of Civil War, and now Wonder Woman has been hailed as a good film, but is still in third place behind Guardians of the Galaxy and the 6th Spiderman film.
So I point this out because the word iconic, can mean several things. I think DC fans tend to use the term as though their character are top end/ can't miss entertainment, and to a waning extent that's true. But more and more, I think the definition that suits them is just being merely recognizable, because they don't seem to have any significant drawing power over a number of characters that are much less recognizable. Wonder Woman was about as good as a slightly above average MCU movie. Everyone will have forgotton about it in 6 months time.....aside from desperate DCEU fanturds. Wonder Woman is better than every MCU movie: 50 Best Superhero Movies of All Time. Moreover, Wonder Woman's lead over the #2 movie ( Logan) has been steadily increasing. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2017 22:36:13 GMT
Wonder Woman was about as good as a slightly above average MCU movie. Everyone will have forgotton about it in 6 months time.....aside from desperate DCEU fanturds. Wonder Woman is better than every MCU movie: 50 Best Superhero Movies of All Time. Moreover, Wonder Woman's lead over the #2 movie ( Logan) has been steadily increasing. Give me 10 minutes and I'll come up with my own contrived formula proving Howard the Duck is the greatest superhero movie of all time. I'm not even going to bother wasting my time looking how many superhero movies received a higher rating than 7.6/10. I know there will be a significant number. The reason I'm not going to bother is because I was expressing my own opinion. |
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Sept 11, 2017 22:56:23 GMT
I'm not, I'm actually just going over the reality of the situation and asking what good is saying the word iconic to reference characters when it clearly doesn't seem to make much of a difference. They're iconic in the sense that everyone recognizes these characters. Well, everyone recognizes Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman. But you are right in that does not equate to good films or high box office returns. Speaking of... poelzig ! Spider-Man: Homecoming, the supposed flop bypassed Wonder Woman! Is that a flop now, too!? Right, so if all iconic means is recognizable then that's a lot different than what fans of the characters want that word to mean, which is incredibly popular. Lot's of things are recognizable, and iconic in that sense of the word. But that doesn't really mean all that much. |
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Sept 11, 2017 22:57:24 GMT
I'm honestly not sure anymore what DC fans mean when they say their characters are iconic, because it doesn't really seem to mean all that much. Man of Steel didn't do particularly well, Batman VS Superman definitely didn't do well coming up over 300 million short of Civil War, and now Wonder Woman has been hailed as a good film, but is still in third place behind Guardians of the Galaxy and the 6th Spiderman film.
So I point this out because the word iconic, can mean several things. I think DC fans tend to use the term as though their character are top end/ can't miss entertainment, and to a waning extent that's true. But more and more, I think the definition that suits them is just being merely recognizable, because they don't seem to have any significant drawing power over a number of characters that are much less recognizable. Wonder Woman was about as good as a slightly above average MCU movie. Everyone will have forgotton about it in 6 months time.....aside from desperate DCEU fanturds. Oh it was below an average MCU movie. It definitely did not have the complexity, depth, or vision that most of those do, even though, yes I agree it was fine for what it was. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2017 23:22:40 GMT
They're iconic in the sense that everyone recognizes these characters. Well, everyone recognizes Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman. But you are right in that does not equate to good films or high box office returns. Speaking of... poelzig ! Spider-Man: Homecoming, the supposed flop bypassed Wonder Woman! Is that a flop now, too!? Right, so if all iconic means is recognizable then that's a lot different than what fans of the characters want that word to mean, which is incredibly popular. Lot's of things are recognizable, and iconic in that sense of the word. But that doesn't really mean all that much. Yep. Just having an iconic character is meaningless unless the film they're in is any good, and so far only Wonder Woman (2017) qualifies. Superman: The Quest for Peace perfectly illustrates that audiences ARE very willing to pass up on seeing a bad Superman movie. Why, I'm sure poelzig remembers seeing the original trailers for Reeve's last ride as the Blue Boy Scout and being less than wowed. |
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Sept 11, 2017 23:38:50 GMT
Right, so if all iconic means is recognizable then that's a lot different than what fans of the characters want that word to mean, which is incredibly popular. Lot's of things are recognizable, and iconic in that sense of the word. But that doesn't really mean all that much. Yep. Just having an iconic character is meaningless unless the film they're in is any good, and so far only Wonder Woman (2017) qualifies. Superman: The Quest for Peace perfectly illustrates that audiences ARE very willing to pass up on seeing a bad Superman movie. Why, I'm sure poelzig remembers seeing the original trailers for Reeve's last ride as the Blue Boy Scout and being less than wowed. My point is that calling the character iconic is meaningless. Ronald McDonald is iconic, but so what? See what I'm saying? |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2017 23:40:51 GMT
Yep. Just having an iconic character is meaningless unless the film they're in is any good, and so far only Wonder Woman (2017) qualifies. Superman: The Quest for Peace perfectly illustrates that audiences ARE very willing to pass up on seeing a bad Superman movie. Why, I'm sure poelzig remembers seeing the original trailers for Reeve's last ride as the Blue Boy Scout and being less than wowed. My point is that calling the character iconic is meaningless. Ronald McDonald is iconic, but so what? See what I'm saying? That's what I'm saying, too. |
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Sept 11, 2017 23:50:58 GMT
My point is that calling the character iconic is meaningless. Ronald McDonald is iconic, but so what? See what I'm saying? That's what I'm saying, too. I agree. DC Fans intend it to mean that their characters are somehow inherently better, or more popular, etc, and that's why they use that term, but that just isn't the case as has been proven numerous times in a row now. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2017 0:21:38 GMT
That's what I'm saying, too. I agree. DC Fans intend it to mean that their characters are somehow inherently better, or more popular, etc, and that's why they use that term, but that just isn't the case as has been proven numerous times in a row now. Ten years ago, they would have been right about the popularity thing. Now with the MCU doing everything in its power to elevate obscure characters into the spotlight and the DCEU unintentionally doing everything in its power to screw up their big hitters (except Wonder Woman), the situation is beginning to flip. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2017 0:33:29 GMT
I agree. DC Fans intend it to mean that their characters are somehow inherently better, or more popular, etc, and that's why they use that term, but that just isn't the case as has been proven numerous times in a row now. Ten years ago, they would have been right about the popularity thing. Now with the MCU doing everything in its power to elevate obscure characters into the spotlight and the DCEU unintentionally doing everything in its power to screw up their big hitters (except Wonder Woman), the situation is beginning to flip. Yeah. And the only reason Wonder Woman wasn't a complete screw up like the rest of the DCEU movies was because they bottled out and copied the MCU formula. That's why it is hilarious to see DCEU zealots rave about a movie they would have attempted to shit all over if it was from the MCU. |
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Sept 12, 2017 0:43:57 GMT
Ten years ago, they would have been right about the popularity thing. Now with the MCU doing everything in its power to elevate obscure characters into the spotlight and the DCEU unintentionally doing everything in its power to screw up their big hitters (except Wonder Woman), the situation is beginning to flip. Yeah. And the only reason Wonder Woman wasn't a complete screw up like the rest of the DCEU movies was because they bottled out and copied the MCU formula. That's why it is hilarious to see DCEU zealots rave about a movie they would have attempted to shit all over if it was from the MCU. It really didn't have the complexity of storytelling that the MCU does. It was significantly more simplified, but generally, yes I agree with what you just said. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2017 0:59:41 GMT
Yeah. And the only reason Wonder Woman wasn't a complete screw up like the rest of the DCEU movies was because they bottled out and copied the MCU formula. That's why it is hilarious to see DCEU zealots rave about a movie they would have attempted to shit all over if it was from the MCU. It really didn't have the complexity of storytelling that the MCU does. It was significantly more simplified, but generally, yes I agree with what you just said. Oh, boy, are DC-Fan and Tristan going to lose their shit when they read this. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2017 1:13:18 GMT
Yeah. And the only reason Wonder Woman wasn't a complete screw up like the rest of the DCEU movies was because they bottled out and copied the MCU formula. That's why it is hilarious to see DCEU zealots rave about a movie they would have attempted to shit all over if it was from the MCU. It really didn't have the complexity of storytelling that the MCU does. It was significantly more simplified, but generally, yes I agree with what you just said. What is "complex" about MCU storytelling? |
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Sept 12, 2017 1:28:59 GMT
It really didn't have the complexity of storytelling that the MCU does. It was significantly more simplified, but generally, yes I agree with what you just said. What is "complex" about MCU storytelling? Usually that it focusses on a multitude of characters and not just Diana for instance. Everybody gets an arc, and generally it builds on multiple parts of the world on top of that, with all of it woven together and relevant to each other part. So even in a story like Ant Man we get a good backstory on Hank and why his relationship with Hope is the way it is. That is also woven in with Darren's history with Pym's company. Of course we get a ton of detail on Scott's family and backstory and along with that a solid amount on Luis. And then on top of that we get loops with Hydra and the Avengers. That type of layering doesn't really exist in WW, which his a fine film, but rather straight forward. Steve is just a military guy we don't know anything about, The amazon's get a bit of play but aren't relevant to the actual story being told unlike the Asgardian's were in Thor, and we don't even get the same type of insight into Ares as we got with Darren either. And mind you, I'm talking about Ant Man. Nevermind the really great films like Civil War. |
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Post by DC-Fan on Sept 12, 2017 2:39:31 GMT
Ten years ago, they would have been right about the popularity thing. Now with the MCU doing everything in its power to elevate obscure characters into the spotlight and the DCEU unintentionally doing everything in its power to screw up their big hitters (except Wonder Woman), the situation is beginning to flip. Yeah. And the only reason Wonder Woman wasn't a complete screw up like the rest of the DCEU movies was because they bottled out and copied the MCU formula. That's why it is hilarious to see DCEU zealots rave about a movie they would have attempted to shit all over if it was from the MCU. didn't copy any MCU formula. The MCU formula would've been to have plenty of jokes and 1-liners during the No Man's Land scene, plenty of jokes and 1-liners of the injured soldiers with amputated limbs, and plenty of jokes and 1-liners about the women and children killed by the poisonous gas. Unlike MCU (which always treats war as a big joke), Wonder Woman did an excellent job of balancing the lighter moments with the more serious moments. That's something that MCU has never done in any of their 17 movies. |
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