ag25
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Post by ag25 on Sept 17, 2017 21:02:46 GMT
Hello everyone,
I am currently rewatching Buffy season 2 on the 20th anniversary of each episode's original air date. So, since it is a little quiet around here, I thought I would make a thread about it because it might be fun and get people talking. I just watched the premier, When She Was Bad, on Friday, so here we go:
When She Was Bad is a good season opener but I will admit it is not one of my favorite episodes. It is well written and sets the stage for the rest of the season, yet I still can't stand Buffy's attitude. I do understand she hasn't dealt with her death "on a conscience level" as Giles said, and that she is suffering from PTSD which, of course, is understandable, but my annoyance at her behavior outweighs my sympathy. However, I would still say it was a good and strong episode. The "bitca" scene is still one of the funniest for me.
I love the foreshadowing of Buffy vs. Angelus when she is trying to get Angel to fight her, particularly because most of us thought it would never happen; and that she is acting more like Angelus would and Angel is acting more like Buffy, sort of like a role reversal. On that note, I also like when Buffy is training with Giles and says that she is ready for whatever is coming after her next, and I'm thinking "No, you're really not!" lol.
The scene with Principal Snyder, Giles and Jenny is also priceless! Despite my irritation with Buffy in this episode, the scene at the Bronze where she uses Xander and tells him that she hadn't thanked him for saving her life and doesn't he "wish she would" is so mean, almost cruel, but wonderfully done. And then Cordelia actually gets to give good advice to Buffy and sound like the moral authority (for lack of a better word) than her usual "ditzy" self. That is one thing I love about Cordelia's character. You think she is just there for comic relief and to be the typical mean girl, but then she surprises you and has some really insightful and character building moments.
I am usually not a fan of the Willow and Xander romance, but they were so adorable in this episode and I love Xander's devotion to Willow we see near the end when he tells Buffy that he would kill her if anything happened to Willow.
An underappreciated scene I think is the exchange between Joyce and Hank. This is one of the few episode's we see Hank in, and I like that we actually get to see them talk about their concern and love for their daughter.
Also, the climax of the episode where Buffy fights the vamps and smashes The Master's bones is great. Great fight and great emotion.
All in all, good episode and a strong start to the season.
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Post by PreachCaleb on Sept 18, 2017 13:24:21 GMT
When She was Bad is one of my favorite episodes for its soundtrack. There's some great music in there from Allison Kraus' "It Doesn't Matter" to Buffy's dance with Xander accompanied by Cibo Matto's "Sugar Water."
The foreshadowing with Angel vs Buffy goes even further. Angel uses the very same diversion tactics in Becoming that fools Buffy in this episode. Goading her into a fight and then sacking the library where her friends are. "And you fall for it every single time!"
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ag25
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Post by ag25 on Sept 23, 2017 20:17:15 GMT
When She was Bad is one of my favorite episodes for its soundtrack. There's some great music in there from Allison Kraus' "It Doesn't Matter" to Buffy's dance with Xander accompanied by Cibo Matto's "Sugar Water." The foreshadowing with Angel vs Buffy goes even further. Angel uses the very same diversion tactics in Becoming that fools Buffy in this episode. Goading her into a fight and then sacking the library where her friends are. "And you fall for it every single time!"
Yep, you are absolutely right! Really good music and score in this episode. Yes, I knew about the diversion in this episode and in Becoming, but for some reason either I forgot or it just never completely clicked until you mentioned it. Thank you, Caleb, for pointing these things out to me not only here but in some of our other conversations as well!
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ag25
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Post by ag25 on Sept 23, 2017 21:46:40 GMT
9-22-1997/2017 - Some Assembly Required
Some Assembly Required is an underrated episode I think. It is sandwiched in between When She Was Bad which sets the stage for season 2, and School Hard which introduces Spike and Drusilla and further sets the stage for the whirlwind of the season. Even I often forget about it and don't watch it that much, but even though it is a monster of the week episode, it has a real emotion to it (for a MotW episode) that we have come to expect from Buffy.
I love that it is inspired by the Frankenstein novel; Daryl and Chris are very sympathetic and despite being the antagonists of the episode, the audience very much sees their point of view and we feel for them. This is one of my favorite things about Buffy the series, (and Angel the series) where the villains are humanized sometimes, and we see that what they want is understandable but how they go about getting it is wrong, yet we still feel bad for them. When Daryl is under the bleachers and looking at Cordelia and watching the football game, his expression and the music really got to me this time...just wonderful.
Giles and Jenny in this episode are great, from his bumbling to her taking charge, I love it. It always makes me giggle when they are at the football game and he is loaded up with the popcorn and drinks and she's going on about football and then she slyly says "date" and Giles catches it and looks so happy...so sweet.
I also love the two Angel and Cordelia scenes. The first one, of course, is the typical girl running and dropping keys scene, but I do give brownie points to Cordy for hiding in the dumpster. At this point I would never have thought that she would "lower" herself to hide there. And Angel being all creepy I guess is more foreshadowing of Angelus. The scene makes me think of the scene in Phases where Angelus meets Theresa and "walks her home." The scene also moves the plot forward in three ways; the body parts of the girls, Buffy lying to Angel about staying in, and that Cordelia is the target. The second one is hilarious. Cordelia hanging on Angel and him catching Buffy and the gang. I like the tension between Buffy and Angel and the irony of her standing with Xander and Angel standing with Cordy who later become love interests (and even more foreshadowing as Angel and Cordelia will both later on go over to Angel's show and have a little romance with each other much later on in the show). The line Cordelia says "Angel saved me from an arm" and when Cordy makes Angel take her home and he's looking at everyone to rescue him always make me laugh! Also, the scene at the end with Xander, Willow, and Cordelia, where she comes up to Xander to thank him for saving her life and he completely blows her off; and he wonders why he can't get a girlfriend, lol.
I like that Buffy and Angel bookend the episode by opening and closing it with their scenes. That Angel's jealousy is brought up (understandable since Buffy was trying to make him jealous with Xander in the first place), Buffy's dance with Xander, Buffy's age, and the parts of Buffy's life that Angel doesn't get to be a part of are great. I like that she walks him home. Also, some (unintentional?) foreshadowing when Buffy falls in the grave and climbs out of her own death and resurrection (and climbing out of a grave again at the end of the season 6 finale). Random observation: I noticed that Angel is wearing light colors in most of this episode. Is this to make him less scary and brooding? Is he trying to emulate Xander and wear lighter colors to seem less vampireish and more approachable? Or was it just a coincidence with the costume designer? And he is wearing white; white shirt and whitish/tan jacket, more angelic perhaps?
Another observation, I think Chris and Willow would have made a good couple had she gotten over Xander sooner and before she met Oz.
I did think this episode was slow at some points, but overall it was a good, if underrated episode.
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Post by PreachCaleb on Sept 25, 2017 13:34:05 GMT
I think every Buffy episode has something worth watching. You hit all the high points of "Some Assembly Required."
I also like the Angel/Cordy scenes. They're fun to watch when you know they'll be getting their own show together in just two years.
Angel's wardrobe does stand out. I don't think he was trying to emulate Xander. I'm sure he's realized Buffy doesn't really have any feelings for him, so he wouldn't try to be more like him. I think you're right in that he's probably trying to seem less threatening. Doesn't he also wear something similar in "Halloween" when he's supposed to meet up with Buffy. And oddly enough, he shares a scene with Cordy in that one too.
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ag25
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Post by ag25 on Sept 27, 2017 23:32:47 GMT
I think every Buffy episode has something worth watching. You hit all the high points of "Some Assembly Required." I also like the Angel/Cordy scenes. They're fun to watch when you know they'll be getting their own show together in just two years. Angel's wardrobe does stand out. I don't think he was trying to emulate Xander. I'm sure he's realized Buffy doesn't really have any feelings for him, so he wouldn't try to be more like him. I think you're right in that he's probably trying to seem less threatening. Doesn't he also wear something similar in "Halloween" when he's supposed to meet up with Buffy. And oddly enough, he shares a scene with Cordy in that one too.
Right!
Yes; if memory serves, I think Angel is wearing a light blue shirt. Like you said, fun to watch.
I agree, I think Angel is trying to be less threatening, and/or more approachable. Accessing his human side, if you will.
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ag25
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Post by ag25 on Oct 5, 2017 0:08:38 GMT
9-29-1997/2017 - School Hard
I love this episode because we are now being introduced to the main story arc of season 2 in the form of Spike and Drusilla (and, of course, Angelus later on), and what a great introduction for them! Even now when I watch it, their first scene together is just fantastic. I can feel their connection, love, and the danger they exude. I love how they can be funny, romantic, and dangerous all at the same time, lol. I am also glad that they got rid of the Anointed One since I never really liked him. The kid who played him did a good job, but he really served little to no purpose. Even in season one all he did was lead Buffy to the Master and she might have found him on her own anyway. But, whatever, Spike killing him definitely showed us that he and Dru were hardcore and will be harder for Buffy to deal with.
I like that both Spike and (later) Angelus, watch Buffy at the Bronze. Nice foreshadowing. No matter how much they rant against each other, they are still much more similar than that want to admit; their "reunion" scene together was great. I had forgotten that they actually hugged, lol! I won't open up the debate about Spike calling Angel his sire as it has been discussed before, but it still annoys me. Also, gotta love the Anne Rice bashing that happens on occasion throughout both series.
One thing did bug me though, why didn't Angel stay, or come back, and give the group more information on Spike? Especially if he had confronted Buffy, Angel would have wanted her to be aware of how dangerous Spike is, not to mention Drusilla, and yet he just walks off. I get it if the show wanted Spike and Dru to remain a little mysterious, but you'd think Angel would have given them a little more information.
I like that this episode heavily featured Joyce and was centered around the normal parent-teacher conference, instead of the supernatural night of St. Vigius (sp?) that would have happened that Saturday. The show kind of tricked us as we thought the real showdown would be then and not the parent-teacher night. I loved that Buffy took control of the situation, like she normally would do and Principal Snyder had to do what she said. Joyce was great. She got to see a part of who Buffy really is and that even though Buffy may not be perfect, she is a good kid who cares about others and can take care of herself. Plus, she got to hit Spike in the head with an ax, "You get the hell away from my daughter" Girl Power! Loved the little talk between mother and daughter too at the beginning of the episode.
Shelia is an interesting character. It was odd that Buffy did not kill her. I do not recall seeing Shelia again? Is she ever killed?
Even though Jenny was not a big part in this episode, I still enjoy her in any episode she is in. More Jenny and Giles I say. But I do find it a little odd that they did not talk to Joyce since they are some of Buffy's teachers and therefore could put in a good word for her (Was Buffy in computer class or was that just Willow?).
Go Xander for fighting with Angel against Spike's minions!
Overall, great episode. I love that it had a normal everyday plot and then the supernatural element of Spike causing trouble was a great combination, because the writers took the time to introduce us to the new villains and allowed us to get to know them, while still moving both the episode's and the season's plots along. That's is one of my favorite things about the show.
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Post by PreachCaleb on Oct 9, 2017 20:36:33 GMT
I always take it as Angel still being ashamed of how he shaped Spike and Dru into monsters. He still considers Dru the worst thing he ever did, so he's not really too upfront with the information. Buffy even had to confront him about Drusilla. He never even warned the gang she and Spike were a couple.
As for Shelia, she's one of the few vampires that manages to escape the slayer.
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mmexis
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Post by mmexis on Oct 10, 2017 1:54:23 GMT
My favourite lines from school hard, (among the many favourites) Buffy: (holding the ax) Do we really need weapons for this? Spike: I just like them. They make me feel all manly.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2017 10:21:27 GMT
I think every Buffy episode has something worth watching. You hit all the high points of "Some Assembly Required." Personally i have to disagree with that. I think most of them have something wort watching but not everyone.
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Post by PreachCaleb on Oct 10, 2017 12:57:34 GMT
I think every Buffy episode has something worth watching. You hit all the high points of "Some Assembly Required." Personally i have to disagree with that. I think most of them have something wort watching but not everyone. Example?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2017 13:20:42 GMT
Personally i have to disagree with that. I think most of them have something wort watching but not everyone. Example? Go Fish Beer Bad The I in Team Now i am sure you will find something worth watching in these episodes. I just don`t.
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Post by PreachCaleb on Oct 10, 2017 13:38:13 GMT
Fair enough.
But Cave Buffy should be its own action figure.
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Post by Raimo47 on Oct 11, 2017 8:49:54 GMT
Go Fish Beer Bad The I in Team Now i am sure you will find something worth watching in these episodes. I just don`t. Go Fish 8/10Beer Bad 7/10The I in Team 9/10
I like all those episodes, but I agree with you. Once More, with Feeling is not worth watching. I really hate that episode.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2017 9:48:03 GMT
Go Fish Beer Bad The I in Team Now i am sure you will find something worth watching in these episodes. I just don`t. Go Fish 8/10Beer Bad 7/10The I in Team 9/10
I like all those episodes, but I agree with you. Once More, with Feeling is not worth watching. I really hate that episode. I am not a big fan of Once More, with feeling but i don`t hate it. But i find it very strange that its the highest rated episode on IMDB with 9.8\10.
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ag25
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Post by ag25 on Oct 11, 2017 22:56:33 GMT
I always take it as Angel still being ashamed of how he shaped Spike and Dru into monsters. He still considers Dru the worst thing he ever did, so he's not really too upfront with the information. Buffy even had to confront him about Drusilla. He never even warned the gang she and Spike were a couple. As for Shelia, she's one of the few vampires that manages to escape the slayer.
Yeah, you are right, Caleb. I can understand Angel's guilt and shame over it and not wanting Buffy to know that part of him, but he still should have warned them. He should have known if Spike and Dru came to the Hellmouth then they had a reason to. Maybe Angel was trying to find out more information behind the scenes and we (and Buffy) weren't privy to it?
I don't want to get ahead of myself, but Angel's confession to Buffy about Drusilla in Lie to Me is great.
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ag25
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Post by ag25 on Oct 11, 2017 23:55:38 GMT
10-6-1997/2017 - Inca Mummy Girl
This is an interesting episode. I like that the writers incorporate Incan/South American culture, but I did feel it was a little slow in terms of pacing. I did like the idea of a resurrected mummy mystery for the Scoobies to solve, but I felt it missed the mark. I also felt that when Buffy saw the men's underwear, she should have worked out that Ampata was the mummy more quickly.
I will admit, Xander is not one of my favorite characters...*hides behind bush*...Here, and in many other instances, he comes off as very possessive of Buffy, and unappreciative of what he has or is standing right in front of him. But I did love at the end he was very brave and went against a girl who liked him in favor of doing the right thing by saving Willow and even offering to sacrifice himself to Ampata. I will give him brownie points for that. Don't get me wrong, I don't hate Xander, but he annoys me a lot of the time, and some of the things he does throughout the series because of his prejudices and selfishness I really hate and disagree with. I do love Nicholas Brendon though, he plays Xander so well; some of his comedy and dramatic scenes are absolutely gold!
I appreciate Alyson's performance, her longing and slight acceptance that Xander will never love her the way she wants is sad but so well done.
No Angel in this episode! I didn't know that there was a season 2 episode without him since David was made a regular cast member. I think he was missed here because they could have easily had a scene where Buffy is sad about not getting to go to the dance/feeling left out/wanting to feel like a normal teenage girl, and Angel shows up and they talk about it, and he tells her that even though she isn't normal what she does is important, or something along those lines. Not only would it have gone with one of the themes of the episode, but it would make her feel better and Angel will have then made an appearance.
The one thing I love this episode for is Oz's introduction. That makes it worth viewing for me personally. Willow's Eskimo costume was great, and the fact that she stands out to Oz in it is just so cute! That is why I adore Oz! I also liked his line to Devon about how he is not picky with girls, he's just not so easily impressed by their looks or what they say.
Yay for a Jonathan appearance! I like that even though he is into Ampata when she is trying to kiss him, he stops and asks if she was with Xander. Aww, so sweet!
I like the premise of this episode, but I just don't think it turned out as good as it could have been. But, I agree with PreachCaleb in that all Buffy (and Angel) episodes have at least one thing, for me at least, worth watching. And I still believe that a bad episode if Buffy or Angel are better than half the stuff on TV nowadays.
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mmexis
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Post by mmexis on Oct 12, 2017 1:50:28 GMT
I'm not a fan of Once more with feeling either. But I dislike Tabula Rasa even more. (ducks down to avoid rocks being thrown)
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Post by PreachCaleb on Oct 12, 2017 13:59:07 GMT
I always take it as Angel still being ashamed of how he shaped Spike and Dru into monsters. He still considers Dru the worst thing he ever did, so he's not really too upfront with the information. Buffy even had to confront him about Drusilla. He never even warned the gang she and Spike were a couple. As for Shelia, she's one of the few vampires that manages to escape the slayer.
Yeah, you are right, Caleb. I can understand Angel's guilt and shame over it and not wanting Buffy to know that part of him, but he still should have warned them. He should have known if Spike and Dru came to the Hellmouth then they had a reason to. Maybe Angel was trying to find out more information behind the scenes and we (and Buffy) weren't privy to it?
I don't want to get ahead of myself, but Angel's confession to Buffy about Drusilla in Lie to Me is great.
I think his plan was what we see at the beginning of "Lie to Me." Try and convince Dru to leave. That's probably one of the most haunting scenes of the show. Beautifully lit and filled with so much tension. Like with Julie Benz, David has this instant chemistry with Juliet Landau. Again, their history has not really been established on the show, yet you can feel these characters have known each other for such a long time. And Angel's warning to Dru--"If you don't leave, it'll go badly. For all of us"--was even truer than either of them could've foreseen. Sorry, we both got a little ahead here.
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Post by PreachCaleb on Oct 12, 2017 13:59:46 GMT
I'm not a fan of Once more with feeling either. But I dislike Tabula Rasa even more. (ducks down to avoid rocks being thrown) Nooooo. How could you not love Joan, Alex, and Randy?!
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