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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2021 0:39:37 GMT
Nalkarj Do you recommend reading these in order? I was about to start Dr No and then I thought that maybe I should order LALD and continue in order. Or does it matter? Gah, I meant to respond to your post above and got sidetracked. Typical Sklazmark. What did you think of Casino Royale? I really like it, but some Bond-book fans aren’t that fond of it. As for your question, I do recommend reading them in publication order. They don’t have to be read that way—like the movies, they’re all independent adventures—but Bond develops as a character over the course of the books. And Dr. No is a direct sequel to From Russia, with Love, so it’s best to read FRWL before it. I still haven’t read the last two books ( You Only Live Twice and The Man with the Golden Gun) or Moonraker, but I’ve read all the others. Also, LALD is one of the best (IMO, of course)—much better than the movie—so it may be a good choice to read next. ( Dr. No isn’t bad at all, but it’s pretty much identical to the movie until the ending.) Well, I’m sold. They’re pretty quick reads so unless my opinion of them changes dramatically I will probably get around to most, if not all, of them so I might as well go in order. Even if they are mostly unrelated I do like the idea of seeing how the character and series evolve as it goes along. So Live and Let Die it is! Casino Royale: I enjoyed it quite a bit actually. I don’t typically spend a lot of time reading straight up genre fiction (my taste in novels is oddly far more specific than my taste in movies, which by contrast is pretty broad), but I thought CR was a lot of fun. Fleming is not a great writer, but he has his strengths. The action was well done and the card game was pretty compelling considering it could have easily come off as boring and/or difficult to follow. And Fleming just had a knack for making it a ton of fun to read. Above all though I think it was the novelty of me already being a big fan of the character that made it as enjoyable as it was. Had I not already been predisposed to like the character I’m not sure I would have been quite as eager to read more. Hard to say. It definitely left me wanting to go on though.
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Post by Nalkarj on Jan 26, 2021 3:37:45 GMT
@forceghostackbar , great, hope you enjoy Live and Let Die!
I seem to be much more a genre guy than you (though I’m never quite sure what delineates literary rather than genre fiction—the Wikipedia article lists Dracula as literary, and that’s basically a big potboiler, like it though I do. And then F. Scott Fitzgerald, to pick one person at random, was in many ways a genre guy).
And I think I like Fleming’s prose more than you do: he has a talent for the hook, and for writing techniques that seem based in rhetoric (“The scent and smoke and sweat of a casino are nauseating at three in the morning”).
And I rate that talent for “making it a ton of fun to read” highly: I’ve read many books that lose my interest quickly.
I think From Russia, with Love is the best-written (and all-around best—certainly the best-plotted) of the series, by the way; On Her Majesty’s Secret Service would be, except that the action sequences aren’t as compelling as the suspense ones. _________________________________ This is more for your other thread, but have you read Borges? Bradbury? Eco? All of them straddled the line between literary and genre fiction. (I’ve found few prose-lines to compete with Bradbury’s best—The Martian Chronicles, Dandelion Wine, Something Wicked This Way Comes.)
Maybe Dashiell Hammett, whose style almost definitely influenced Hemingway (“The Killers” is very Hammettesque) and whose The Maltese Falcon is rated a classic by both literary and genre aficionados.
As for the intersection of literary and horror, check out Shirley Jackson, especially beyond “The Lottery” and The Haunting of Hill House. She was insightful, intelligent, and terrifying at once.
As for modern-day writers, you may want to check out Steven Millhauser, who writes maybe-fantasy and is one of the greatest prose-stylists I know. While he may suffer in some corners because of his popularity, I really do think Neil Gaiman is an excellent, lyrical fantasy writer.
These just come to mind; I hope some of the recommendations help.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2021 3:51:28 GMT
@forceghostackbar , great, hope you enjoy Live and Let Die! I seem to be much more a genre guy than you (though I’m never quite sure what delineates literary rather than genre fiction—the Wikipedia article lists Dracula as literary, and that’s basically a big potboiler, like it though I do. And then F. Scott Fitzgerald, to pick one person at random, was in many ways a genre guy). And I think I like Fleming’s prose more than you do: he has a talent for the hook, and for writing techniques that seem based in rhetoric (“The scent and smoke and sweat of a casino are nauseating at three in the morning”). And I rate that talent for “making it a ton of fun to read” highly: I’ve read many books that lose my interest quickly. I think From Russia, with Love is the best-written (and all-around best—certainly the best-plotted) of the series, by the way; On Her Majesty’s Secret Service would be, except that the action sequences aren’t as compelling as the suspense ones. _________________________________ This is more for your other thread, but have you read Borges? Bradbury? Eco? All of them straddled the line between literary and genre fiction. (I’ve found few prose-lines to compete with Bradbury’s best— The Martian Chronicles, Dandelion Wine, Something Wicked This Way Comes.) Maybe Dashiell Hammett, whose style almost definitely influenced Hemingway (“The Killers” is very Hammettesque) and whose The Maltese Falcon is rated a classic by both literary and genre aficionados. As for the intersection of literary and horror, check out Shirley Jackson, especially beyond “The Lottery” and The Haunting of Hill House. She was insightful, intelligent, and terrifying at once. As for modern-day writers, you may want to check out Steven Millhauser, who writes maybe-fantasy and is one of the greatest prose-stylists I know. While he may suffer in some corners because of his popularity, I really do think Neil Gaiman is an excellent, lyrical fantasy writer. These just come to mind; I hope some of the recommendations help. As a former English/Creative Writing Major I can tell you that no one really seems to know where the line is that separates literary fiction from genre fiction! In my experience not even English professors or publishers seem to know! I’m not against genre fiction by any means. I guess I just find it loses my interest in most cases and really well written prose is what I appreciate most from the medium so when it’s not there I lose interest quicker. But of course if the entertainment value is there- as it was in Casino Royale- then I can certainly enjoy it. And Fleming definitely has some additional strengths as a writer besides the “fun factor”. Actually on a side note one of my favorite parts of CR was the focus on Bond’s eating habits. I found that fascinating for some reason. And why does he always take cold showers?! I kept trying to figure out what that was meant to imply about Bond. Thanks for the recommendations too! I will absolutely look into those! Greatly appreciated!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2021 23:39:03 GMT
Live and Let Die has arrived in the mail!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2021 16:37:57 GMT
Finally got around to starting Live and Let Die the other day. About halfway through and I am really enjoying it. Fleming’s writing has really improved and all the classic Bond tropes are really clicking. Much better than the movie so far.
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Post by politicidal on Apr 25, 2021 19:35:17 GMT
Finally got around to starting Live and Let Die the other day. About halfway through and I am really enjoying it. Fleming’s writing has really improved and all the classic Bond tropes are really clicking. Much better than the movie so far. The movie is...odd. Even if you remove the blaxploitation tropes, it's not a good first outing for Roger Moore. He gets tricked and captured..a lot.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2021 21:27:39 GMT
Finally got around to starting Live and Let Die the other day. About halfway through and I am really enjoying it. Fleming’s writing has really improved and all the classic Bond tropes are really clicking. Much better than the movie so far. The movie is...odd. Even if you remove the blaxploitation tropes, it's not a good first outing for Roger Moore. He gets tricked and captured..a lot. Yeah, I think the movie is just plain bad honestly. The book is unfortunately also full of really cringey stereotypes. Though Fleming almost seems to me like he’s trying to be progressive by featuring a genius supervillain who happens to be black, but it has not aged well at all in regards to its portrayal of black people in Harlem. That aside though, it’s the first book to really feature all the classic Bond tropes like secret lairs and larger than life villains. So that’s pretty fun.
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2021 6:05:34 GMT
I finished Moonraker tonight. Another fun Bond adventure to be sure, but I don’t quite understand why it tops so many lists as Fleming’s best. Without getting into major spoilers I thought the big reveals were extremely obvious and creating a “mystery” around who the real villain is was just a really poor choice. We can easily guess who it is from the first chapter and yet Bond seems to waffle back and forth on his suspicions for three quarters of the novel while the reader is way ahead of him, waiting for him to finally return to the big reveal that he already basically figured out at the end of the first act before inexplicably changing his mind. Which is a real shame because the initial origin of his and M’s suspicion is really very clever.
Still a solid entry though and a very enjoyable read. But I personally place it behind the first two.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2021 18:35:14 GMT
Finally FINALLY finished Diamonds are Forever. It’s the novel commonly found at the very bottom of Fleming fans’ lists. As I was reading I kept thinking, This isn’t all that bad. But it took me something like six months to finish it after picking it up and putting it down about a dozen times so it’s easily my least favorite (so far) as well. Tiffany Case is really the best part of it and she’s barely in it. I think the biggest problem with it is the lack of a central antagonist. Every time we meet one of the mobsters they vanish out of the story in the next chapter. Though I do think the faux western ghost town was a lot of fun, along with the train chase, and would have made a really fun location/action sequence in the movie.
On to Russia…
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2021 23:13:12 GMT
Only six chapters in and I can already tell FRWL is going to be the best so far. Fleming’s writing has really evolved over the course of the series. I’m enjoying it, and Bond hasn’t even shown up yet!
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Post by Nalkarj on Dec 1, 2021 17:29:59 GMT
Only six chapters in and I can already tell FRWL is going to be the best so far. Fleming’s writing has really evolved over the course of the series. I’m enjoying it, and Bond hasn’t even shown up yet! I don’t want to set up too-high expectations, but… It’s really good.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2021 17:55:16 GMT
Only six chapters in and I can already tell FRWL is going to be the best so far. Fleming’s writing has really evolved over the course of the series. I’m enjoying it, and Bond hasn’t even shown up yet! I don’t want to set up too-high expectations, but… It’s really good. Have you gotten around to reading any more? I forget where you left off. I know you mentioned missing Moonraker.
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Post by Nalkarj on Dec 1, 2021 17:58:09 GMT
I don’t want to set up too-high expectations, but… It’s really good. Have you gotten around to reading any more? I forget where you left off. I know you mentioned missing Moonraker. Unfortunately, no, though recently I haven’t done much leisure reading at all. (I have a Peter Straub horror novel out of the library now and, though I like it so far, haven’t made it past the first chapter.) Re: Bond, I’ve read up to OHMSS but missed Moonraker, For Your Eyes Only (short stories), and The Spy Who Loved Me.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2021 18:25:45 GMT
Finished Russia! Easily the best so far. Fleming’s writing continues to improve with each novel. This one was fun and exciting from start to finish, despite basically knowing every single development from watching the movie a dozen times. Except for that ending though. I didn’t expect that.
The only nitpick is that there is no closure for Tatiana. Unlike the movie she doesn’t get that climactic moment where she decisively sides with Bond over mother Russia. In fact, despite her being a POV character for much of the book we never even get any internalization from her about the true nature of SMERSH’s plot.
Going on to read other things for a while, but I’ll be back for Dr No in a few months!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2022 22:04:46 GMT
Back on the Bond train again. Halfway through Dr No. Another solid Fleming adventure. Very similar to the movie but it’s fun to notice the small differences. Like the centipede in the bed instead of a tarantula.
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Post by SuperDevilDoctor on Sept 2, 2022 4:06:23 GMT
Back on the Bond train again. Halfway through Dr No. Another solid Fleming adventure. Very similar to the movie but it’s fun to notice the small differences. Like the centipede in the bed instead of a tarantula. The book is better than the film in a number of ways, not just the much creepier poisonous centipede (instead of a boring tarantula). I mean, the book version of Honey Ryder doesn't even bother with a bikini...
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Post by Nalkarj on Sept 2, 2022 14:25:08 GMT
Back on the Bond train again. Halfway through Dr No. Another solid Fleming adventure. Very similar to the movie but it’s fun to notice the small differences. Like the centipede in the bed instead of a tarantula. The book is better than the film in a number of ways, not just the much creepier poisonous centipede (instead of a boring tarantula). I mean, the book version of Honey Ryder doesn't even bother with a bikini... By the way, that series of reprints sure depicted some beautiful women on the covers. My favorites are probably Vesper and Tracy (love Diana Rigg though I do, the blonde, Grace Kelly-inspired Tracy is how I see the character):
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2022 18:37:50 GMT
Finished Dr No. For most of the novel I was expecting to rank it 2nd after From Russia. I loved the slow rising tension and building mystery- this one pulled that off better than any previous novel in the series (though this was a bit difficult to judge given how familiar I was with the plot from watching the movie numerous times). I really enjoy the way Fleming builds up to the eventual reveal of his villains. The writing is also still on par with Fleming’s best work, despite some inevitable repetitiveness in the classic tropes (Honey Rider feels all too similar to other previous Bond girls, which is a bit ironic given that she was the first one on screen). And Dr No proved to be just as iconic as his counterpart on screen, and ten times creepier. But… that whole torture chamber sequence really brought it down. I’ve never seen The Saw movies but this is what I was reminded of. This section was intense so I give some credit, but also pretty gratuitous and turned Dr No into a pointlessly sadistic cliche. Bond battling a giant squid was certainly unexpected! But also pretty absurd. A real jump the shark squid moment for the series. In the end I still enjoyed it, but I gotta rank it closer to the bottom- above DAF and maybe CR but probably no higher.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2022 1:18:08 GMT
Octopussy A decent short story, I guess. Not really much of Bond in this one. Considering this involves the murder of someone close to him you’d think he’d get a POV scene to give the reader some insight into his past. But strangely, the whole tale is told from the perspective of his target. Worth reading, but entirely non-essential. Might’ve been a good prologue to a full fledged novel. Strange to think this was adapted into a movie where Bond dresses like a clown.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2022 6:12:05 GMT
Property of a Lady
Very much a traditional Bond story, beginning with a summons from M and a plot that’s like a cross between From Russia and Casino Royale. I wonder if this didn’t begin as a novel that didn’t pan out. The auction shows Flemings’ strengths in creating tension in settings that would be boring in the hands of lesser writers. Card games, auctions- these shouldn’t be so exciting on the page, but with Fleming, they are. But.. then it just ends, sort of anticlimactically.
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