PanLeo
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@saoradh
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Post by PanLeo on Mar 2, 2017 15:51:04 GMT
I remember you being smarter. That is not what I was disputing. Okay, but you'd said, "Nothing I said suggests I believe any of that." So I was going to go piece by piece for clarification. So is it that you don't want to effectively outlaw hatred, or at least ideological divisions in society? Yes.
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Post by Terrapin Station on Mar 2, 2017 15:52:56 GMT
Okay, but you'd said, "Nothing I said suggests I believe any of that." So I was going to go piece by piece for clarification. So is it that you don't want to effectively outlaw hatred, or at least ideological divisions in society? Yes. But that was your rationale for outlawing Bible-burning, wasn't it? It would (at least sometimes) cause hatred and social divisions, and you don't want those. You want to effectively legislate away hatred and social divisions.
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PanLeo
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@saoradh
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Post by PanLeo on Mar 2, 2017 16:01:42 GMT
But that was your rationale for outlawing Bible-burning, wasn't it? It would (at least sometimes) cause hatred and social divisions, and you don't want those. You want to effectively legislate away hatred and social divisions. I am starting to wonder whether you are actually reading my posts.
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Post by Terrapin Station on Mar 2, 2017 16:19:42 GMT
But that was your rationale for outlawing Bible-burning, wasn't it? It would (at least sometimes) cause hatred and social divisions, and you don't want those. You want to effectively legislate away hatred and social divisions. I am starting to wonder whether you are actually reading my posts. So that wasn't your rationale for outlawing Bible-burning?
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Post by Terrapin Station on Mar 2, 2017 16:21:33 GMT
But that was your rationale for outlawing Bible-burning, wasn't it? It would (at least sometimes) cause hatred and social divisions, and you don't want those. You want to effectively legislate away hatred and social divisions. I am starting to wonder whether you are actually reading my posts. Maybe I'm not reading them very well. So you're saying that that wasn't your rationale for outlawing Bible-burning?
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PanLeo
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@saoradh
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Post by PanLeo on Mar 2, 2017 18:45:26 GMT
I am starting to wonder whether you are actually reading my posts. Maybe I'm not reading them very well. So you're saying that that wasn't your rationale for outlawing Bible-burning? Last time. 1.Can cause divisions in society, can incite hatred etc 2.Causes serious offence Now to answer your question I dont think things that cause serious offence or that cause divisions in society should outlawed outright is because in the case of burning a holy book free speech doesnt apply. I made this clear in my first response to you.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2017 18:56:23 GMT
I couldn't find anything on new blasphemy laws in ireland or New Zealand being re-introduced making it possibly a non-issue. Of course, I voted anyway for free speech. Here you are: www.blasphemy.ie/blasphemy.nz/
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2017 19:00:28 GMT
so the church is rotating around its blasphemy laws again? good luck floating that lead balloon. Yes, and Canada is looking into an 'Islamophobia' law; which has also been promised by the former leader of the Labour party (though he lost the election and cannot follow through).
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PanLeo
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@saoradh
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Post by PanLeo on Mar 2, 2017 19:18:23 GMT
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Post by Terrapin Station on Mar 2, 2017 19:33:12 GMT
Maybe I'm not reading them very well. So you're saying that that wasn't your rationale for outlawing Bible-burning? Last time. 1.Can cause divisions in society, can incite hatred etc 2.Causes serious offence Now to answer your question I dont think things that cause serious offence or that cause divisions in society should outlawed outright is because in the case of burning a holy book free speech doesnt apply. I made this clear in my first response to you. "Now to answer your question I dont think things that cause serious offence or that cause divisions in society should outlawed outright is because in the case of burning a holy book free speech doesnt apply." What? You don't think they should be outlawed outright because free speech doesn't apply?? That doesn't make any sense to me. Forget about free speech for now. You think that Bible-burning should be outlawed. You think his because Bible burning can cause divisions in society, can incite hatred and cause "serious" offense. So you feel that things that can cause divisions in society, that can incite hatred and can cause "serious" offense should be outlawed, right?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2017 19:42:05 GMT
Maybe I'm not reading them very well. So you're saying that that wasn't your rationale for outlawing Bible-burning? Last time. 1.Can cause divisions in society, can incite hatred etc 2.Causes serious offence Now to answer your question I dont think things that cause serious offence or that cause divisions in society should outlawed outright is because in the case of burning a holy book free speech doesnt apply. I made this clear in my first response to you. Why is religious belief the one thing that ought to be ringfenced against causing public outrage? The bible is just paper. I would only agree with you if the specific copy of the Bible being burnt was of great historical significance.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Mar 2, 2017 20:13:15 GMT
I couldn't find anything on new blasphemy laws in ireland or New Zealand being re-introduced making it possibly a non-issue. Of course, I voted anyway for free speech. Here you are: www.blasphemy.ie/blasphemy.nz/1. That was last year 2. I said New. What makes it pressing now? How many are arrested for blasphemy
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2017 20:19:56 GMT
1. That was last year 2. I said New. What makes it pressing now? How many are arrested for blasphemy Last year is new/recent. I can't find any figures on arrests for blasphemy, but the mere fact that it is illegal to blaspheme and the laws were recently introduced (i.e. not archaic laws that are never used but just haven't been taken off the books) has a chilling effect on freedom of speech.
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PanLeo
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Post by PanLeo on Mar 2, 2017 20:20:14 GMT
Last time. 1.Can cause divisions in society, can incite hatred etc 2.Causes serious offence Now to answer your question I dont think things that cause serious offence or that cause divisions in society should outlawed outright is because in the case of burning a holy book free speech doesnt apply. I made this clear in my first response to you. "Now to answer your question I dont think things that cause serious offence or that cause divisions in society should outlawed outright is because in the case of burning a holy book free speech doesnt apply." What? You don't think they should be outlawed outright because free speech doesn't apply?? That doesn't make any sense to me. Forget about free speech for now. You think that Bible-burning should be outlawed. You think his because Bible burning can cause divisions in society, can incite hatred and cause "serious" offense. So you feel that things that can cause divisions in society, that can incite hatred and can cause "serious" offense should be outlawed, right? "You think that Bible-burning should be outlawed. You think his because Bible burning can cause divisions in society, can incite hatred and cause "serious" offense. So you feel that things that can cause divisions in society, that can incite hatred and can cause "serious" offense should be outlawed, right?" If it would lead to a preferable outcome then yes.
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PanLeo
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@saoradh
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Post by PanLeo on Mar 2, 2017 20:20:54 GMT
Last time. 1.Can cause divisions in society, can incite hatred etc 2.Causes serious offence Now to answer your question I dont think things that cause serious offence or that cause divisions in society should outlawed outright is because in the case of burning a holy book free speech doesnt apply. I made this clear in my first response to you. Why is religious belief the one thing that ought to be ringfenced against causing public outrage? It isnt.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Mar 2, 2017 20:22:28 GMT
1. That was last year 2. I said New. What makes it pressing now? How many are arrested for blasphemy Last year is new/recent. I can't find any figures on arrests for blasphemy, but the mere fact that it is illegal to blaspheme and the laws were recently introduced (i.e. not archaic laws that are never used but just haven't been taken off the books) has a chilling effect on freedom of speech. The problem is that you posted efforts to remove it without posting the new Sen we of urgency for a law that's been around since at least the 19th century. I'm failing to see how blasphemous are being stopped from being blasphemous in the 21st century. It doesn't look like there's a day n her for the wicked.
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PanLeo
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Post by PanLeo on Mar 2, 2017 20:26:16 GMT
1. That was last year 2. I said New. What makes it pressing now? How many are arrested for blasphemy Last year is new/recent. I can't find any figures on arrests for blasphemy, but the mere fact that it is illegal to blaspheme and the laws were recently introduced (i.e. not archaic laws that are never used but just haven't been taken off the books) has a chilling effect on freedom of speech. Ireland has had blasphemy laws since the consititution of 1937. Though it didnt specify any punishments it just said blasphemous libel is prohibited. The government in the south of Ireland decided in 2009 that they would finally add to the law and specify a punishment, which was a fine, something like 2500 euros, I cant remember. The laws arent new. Anyway they will be gone soon. The government has promised a referendum on the issue. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blasphemy_law_in_the_Republic_of_Ireland#Proposed_referendum
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Post by Terrapin Station on Mar 2, 2017 20:30:01 GMT
"Now to answer your question I dont think things that cause serious offence or that cause divisions in society should outlawed outright is because in the case of burning a holy book free speech doesnt apply." What? You don't think they should be outlawed outright because free speech doesn't apply?? That doesn't make any sense to me. Forget about free speech for now. You think that Bible-burning should be outlawed. You think his because Bible burning can cause divisions in society, can incite hatred and cause "serious" offense. So you feel that things that can cause divisions in society, that can incite hatred and can cause "serious" offense should be outlawed, right? "You think that Bible-burning should be outlawed. You think his because Bible burning can cause divisions in society, can incite hatred and cause "serious" offense. So you feel that things that can cause divisions in society, that can incite hatred and can cause "serious" offense should be outlawed, right?" If it would lead to a preferable outcome then yes. So if outlawing Bible burning were to cause divisions, incite hatred, or cause serious offense, should it be disallowed?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2017 20:30:26 GMT
Last year is new/recent. I can't find any figures on arrests for blasphemy, but the mere fact that it is illegal to blaspheme and the laws were recently introduced (i.e. not archaic laws that are never used but just haven't been taken off the books) has a chilling effect on freedom of speech. Ireland has had blasphemy laws since the consititution of 1937. Though it didnt specify any punishments it just said blasphemous libel is prohibited. The government in the south of Ireland decided in 2009 that they would finally add to the law and specify a punishment, which was a fine, something like 2500 euros, I cant remember. The laws arent new. Anyway they will be gone soon. The government has promised a referendum on the issue. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blasphemy_law_in_the_Republic_of_Ireland#Proposed_referendumThe update of those laws, including the introduction of the punishment was a result of fear of offending Muslims. The fear of offending Muslims appears to have been the impetus for the 2009 reform of the blasphemy law.
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PanLeo
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@saoradh
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Post by PanLeo on Mar 2, 2017 20:33:22 GMT
"You think that Bible-burning should be outlawed. You think his because Bible burning can cause divisions in society, can incite hatred and cause "serious" offense. So you feel that things that can cause divisions in society, that can incite hatred and can cause "serious" offense should be outlawed, right?" If it would lead to a preferable outcome then yes. So if outlawing Bible burning were to cause divisions, incite hatred, or cause serious offense, should it be disallowed? Jesus you ask a lot of questions. Correct.
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