|
Post by taylorfirst1 on Sept 26, 2017 14:34:59 GMT
Super hero comics are goofy! A guy dressed as a bat fighting a clown and a penguin is goofy! Marvel comics have always been full of quips and clever jokes and crazy costumes. Goofiness is what made these characters iconic over the decades. Trying to change them into something completely different now is not a recipe for success.
If you want super serious super heroes go watch Jason Bourne or something.
|
|
|
Post by charzhino on Sept 26, 2017 15:28:52 GMT
To you, less goofy means going for that bankrupt "grounded" approach where it's all "See, there's no elements of a superhero world here! It's all REALISTIC AND JUST LIKE THE REAL WORLD!" garbage. IE, no aliens or magic, boring costumes, etc. Wrong. Less goofy just means the product not dumbed down purely for children. Aliens and astute costumes have nothing to do with it, Ive never criticised any Avenger movie because of the costumes (except Cap in Avengers 1) or the introduction of Chitauri and Odin/Loki magik etc. The writers just wanted to shoe horn Spiderkid into the movie, theres no deeper reason like Tony being flawed. Hes smart enough to not bring a kid to a superfight after learning of a students death in the 1st act of the film no less. The whole reason for the fight is over the accords, yet Tony apparently forgets the very reason he wants to enforce regulation, putting innocent civilians at risk. Its bad writing whichever way you look at it. People will and are getting tired of the generic MCU formulaic films and will revert to the darker, serious comic films like Logan and Wonder Woman that have more subtext and meaning than your typical marvel flick.
|
|
|
Post by formersamhmd on Sept 26, 2017 15:38:27 GMT
To you, less goofy means going for that bankrupt "grounded" approach where it's all "See, there's no elements of a superhero world here! It's all REALISTIC AND JUST LIKE THE REAL WORLD!" garbage. IE, no aliens or magic, boring costumes, etc. Wrong. Less goofy just means the product not dumbed down purely for children. Aliens and astute costumes have nothing to do with it Really? You don't recall how Question07 and Wormhole were always ragging on about how silly it was for any Marvel character to wear any outfit that wasn't black leather and boring? As for being "for kids", it's for kids the same way Lord of the Rings is. IE, it's something all people can enjoy. Says you. And it's called thinking ahead. OR, it shows how desperate he was becoming before he realizes what he was doing. Which is more self-awareness than Xavier, Magneto and Mystique ever show. WW is very much in the vein of an MCU film, and Logan only got the reaction it did because it was Jackman's Swan Song and because they killed him at the end.
|
|
|
Post by DC-Fan on Sept 27, 2017 6:38:13 GMT
So basically have absolutely no humanity at all and just make all the leads flat archetypes who do nothing but scowl. Nah, just make the films less goofy. The main Avengers all have enough humanity without the need for all that extra crap. Smart to the point Kinglsey started to joke around and play a silly bafoon. Why couldn't he be just a normal person who Killian framed to be the Mandarin. No need for stupid, lame over the top jokes and a comedy sketch. No the jokes just added to the stupidity of the fight itself. No one really wanted to hurt each other, yet they evacuate the airport incase citizens dont get hurt whilst throwing trucks at each other and launching people into airplanes. The premise of the fight doesn't add up. Rhodey gets paralysed which shows how idiotic Stark was again by bringing Spider kid when the same could have easily happened to him. The fight sequence in isolation is entertaining, I can go watch it now on YouTube now and enjoy it but on critical analysis in the context of the film, it falls apart narratively. The jokes are a clever ploy to make the audience forget about the feasibility of the action. They turned Ronan into a Disney villain. Its like the same trick used by Marty in Back to the Future where he points & says, he whats that, to Biff who falls for it every time. Its the most basic method to defeat a villain thus its lame.Ultron should have used similar speech to Apocalypse. No one takes a evil villain who jokes/quips seriously about destroying the world. A lot of critics and audience reviews said Ultron wasn't intimidating enough as portrayed in the early trailers- and they were right. Just wasnt convincing. Na X-Men movies get the balance and timing between levity and darkness perfectly more than any other studio. Excellent post! formersamhmd just got owned!
|
|
|
Post by miike80 on Sept 27, 2017 7:36:30 GMT
WW is very much in the vein of an MCU film, and Logan only got the reaction it did because it was Jackman's Swan Song and because they killed him at the end. Critics are not fanboys and don't give a fuck if Jackman would not play Wolverine again. The liked the movie because it's a good movie. You think that if they praise a comic-book movie that's not part of MCU they're wrong and there must be something else to it
|
|
|
Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Sept 27, 2017 8:09:04 GMT
I prefer Blade to the MCU films. More suspense, better acted. First use of bullet time cgi too I believe (beat the Matrix by a year?). More fun.
The sequels, not so much.
And yeah the humor by the bad guys in the MCU totally undercut any suspense or fear of them. I think they even blew the one moment of empathy for Ultron at the end when he talking to the Vision. They just couldnt sustain the old fashioned movie drama--they had to go back to the one-liners and tourette's editing.
Magneto was capable of humor but he could also be dangerous.
|
|
|
Post by charzhino on Sept 27, 2017 9:23:08 GMT
And yeah the humor by the bad guys in the MCU totally undercut any suspense or fear of them. I think they even blew the one moment of empathy for Ultron at the end when he talking to the Vision. They just couldnt sustain the old fashioned movie drama--they had to go back to the one-liners and tourette's editing. Magneto was capable of humor but he could also be dangerous. Totally agree. MCU is afraid of movie drama and giving villains respect. They prefer substituting that with lame slapstick and quips because it appeals to "wider audiences" more. The only movie that does it effectively from start to finish is Winter Soldier and no wonder its on top of most peoples list as the best MCU instalment to date. But for every Winter Soldier there are 3 mediocre films that come with it. And Magnetos humorous jibes are well timed.
|
|
|
Post by charzhino on Sept 27, 2017 9:37:19 GMT
Really? You don't recall how Question07 and Wormhole were always ragging on about how silly it was for any Marvel character to wear any outfit that wasn't black leather and boring? I don't remember them specifically saying black leather was boring. More to the point that flashy costumes would undermine the realistic tone Singer set in X1. Nah, they couldnt think ahead in the same movie otherwise they wouldn't have included the guilt trip Tony faced by the dead kids mother grilling him. They are trying to show that Stark is conflicted but its comes off more that he is actually dumb because of the poor writing. Magneto, Xavier and Mistiuqe showed it much better in a film like DOFP because the writing for each 3 was perfectly written from their motivations to behavioural changes which came off as natural. With Stark and even Cap to a degree in Civil War, it feels contrived to drive the action rather than organic. Marvel would not have been able to produce the WW film, it didn't have any recurring tropes and beats that a typical MCU film has. And Logan revitalized the genre through true innovation. Not fake ones like GotG or Dr Strange that just because they seem different stylistically, they are no different than their franchise counterparts because they're derived from the same template of writing cliches.
|
|
|
Post by formersamhmd on Sept 27, 2017 11:37:31 GMT
WW is very much in the vein of an MCU film, and Logan only got the reaction it did because it was Jackman's Swan Song and because they killed him at the end. Critics are not fanboys and don't give a fuck if Jackman would not play Wolverine again. They would, they very much would. Especially since they'd been watching since he started back in 2000. Swan Song performances get this reaction all the time.
|
|
|
Post by miike80 on Sept 27, 2017 11:41:20 GMT
Critics are not fanboys and don't give a fuck if Jackman would not play Wolverine again. They would, they very much would. Especially since they'd been watching since he started back in 2000. Swan Song performances get this reaction all the time. No, most of them don't give a fuck about comics either. But keep telling yourself that. only MCU movies deserve praise, the rest are shit, right? Especially Antman or Iron Man's shitty sequels
|
|
|
Post by formersamhmd on Sept 27, 2017 11:41:59 GMT
And yeah the humor by the bad guys in the MCU totally undercut any suspense or fear of them. I think they even blew the one moment of empathy for Ultron at the end when he talking to the Vision. They just couldnt sustain the old fashioned movie drama--they had to go back to the one-liners and tourette's editing. Magneto was capable of humor but he could also be dangerous. Totally agree. MCU is afraid of movie drama and giving villains respect. They prefer substituting that with lame slapstick and quips because it appeals to "wider audiences" more. The only movie that does it effectively from start to finish is Winter Soldier and no wonder its on top of most peoples list as the best MCU instalment to date. But for every Winter Soldier there are 3 mediocre films that come with it. And Magnetos humorous jibes are well timed. No, they just don't feel the need for pretentious drama and making the villains the stars of the movie and totally downgrading the heroes to supporting roles. Winter Soldier appealed to people who wanted something "grounded" with little to no superhero stuff whatsoever. But then the Helicarriers and the Nazi AI came in and messed that all up for them which is why none of them can say it's "perfect". And no, Magneto's jibes are no more well timed than any MCU villain jokes.
|
|
|
Post by formersamhmd on Sept 27, 2017 11:42:53 GMT
They would, they very much would. Especially since they'd been watching since he started back in 2000. Swan Song performances get this reaction all the time. No, most of them don't give a fuck about comics either. They do give a fuck about actors and performance history and stuff. So they were going to give Jackman's last go an easy time.
|
|
|
Post by formersamhmd on Sept 27, 2017 11:49:03 GMT
I don't remember them specifically saying black leather was boring. More to the point that flashy costumes would undermine the realistic tone Singer set in X1. Said like someone ashamed of comics. They must truly hate how the Military makes Air Force Men wear Blue, Navy guys wear white and Army guys wear green. Too much variety. ? What does that have to do with it? The guilt trip was ONE thing, the straw that broke the camel's back. You still haven't explained how. He brings in someone with powers that he thinks could help and then realizes it's a bad idea. It's better than how the X-Movies never have Xavier own up to his cowardice and incompetence. Every X-Men movie things are back to the way we saw them in X1. No they didn't. Xavier's drinking came out of nowhere and was resolved easily, Mystique is just a plot device holdover from the comic story and Magneto never learns a damn thing. The conflict with Steve, Bucky and Tony made organic sense. Steve and Bucky's relationship is also better done than Xavier and Magneto's, where apparently they're such great pals after knowing each other for only a few months. It's just First Avenger only more "grounded" (except for all the clearly not grounded stuff). It's just that because all the other DCEU movies have been less than stellar it makes WW look more than mediocre. There was nothing innovative in that movie, it was the same old song and dance we've seen since 2000. Only it had more blood, cursing and killed Logan at the end. GOTG revitalized Space Opera and Dr Strange revitalized Magical Heroes beyond Harry Potter. X-Men wishes it could extend into those genres but they can't because of Singer's hatred of comic books and FOX's overall cowardice.
|
|
|
Post by DSDSquared on Sept 27, 2017 13:49:08 GMT
I did prefer DOFP to Civil War, but that is just me. However, I prefer DOFP to any DCEU movie too so I fail to see the point of this argument. People keep complaining back and forth, but the MCU still has the better movies. BvS and SS absolutely sucked. No two ways around it. I am one of the few who enjoyed Man of Steel though. I also enjoyed Wonder Woman, but to me, it was on the same level of Civil War. Both are GOOD movies that I gave a 7/10, but neither are some masterpiece that their fans make them out to be. My three favorite Comic Book Movies:
The Winter Soldier The Dark Knight Days of Future's Past.
|
|
|
Post by politicidal on Sept 27, 2017 14:08:17 GMT
While entertaining, Iron Man 2 is the only one that really feels forced and superficial.
|
|
|
Post by charzhino on Sept 27, 2017 14:08:19 GMT
No, they just don't feel the need for pretentious drama and making the villains the stars of the movie and totally downgrading the heroes to supporting roles. Winter Soldier appealed to people who wanted something "grounded" with little to no superhero stuff whatsoever. But then the Helicarriers and the Nazi AI came in and messed that all up for them which is why none of them can say it's "perfect". And no, Magneto's jibes are no more well timed than any MCU villain jokes. How is it pretentious? Is it because the MCU is so dry on dramatic substance that you think that more than 2 minutes of character's talking on screen to each other about themes of the film is now pretentious? Nah, Im glad X-Men films (and non-MCU CBMs) dont stoop to their level and replace raw storytelling with silly side characters, a necessary quota of comedy and making a mockery of the villains. So Winter Soldier is not more grounded than a film showing a 5000 year old mutant able to survive and resserect from deep in the ground that can mentally connect to television/satellite signals? And Winter Soldier was ashamed of Caps bright costume from Avengers 1. The whole roster of character's all wear dark black leathery costumes, I dont see you complaining about that. Magnetos lines are actually funny and appropriately timed. "Wolverine, who ever goes into the dam has to know how to operate the spillway mechanism. What do you intend to do; scratch it with your claws" Ultrons were unfunny that dont come close to being memorable/quotable as the one above.
|
|
Peter B. Parker
Sophomore
Watch the hands, not the mouth
@babygroot
Posts: 853
Likes: 411
|
Post by Peter B. Parker on Sept 27, 2017 15:15:37 GMT
All of them are lame, but if you're talking about "lamest", it's either Civil War or SMH.
Civil War
Zemo: "The Avengers killed my family. But even though I know all of their identities, I'm not going to do the logical thing and target their families ad loved ones. Instead, I'm going to come up with the most convoluted plot in CBM history where I find the only copy of a videotape from 25 years ago of Bucky killing the Starks on a random road in the middle of nowhere (where a random camera just happen to be in the right position and right angle to record the killings) but instead of uploading the video to the Internet for everyone to see that Bucky is a murderer, I'm going to wait for Bucky, Captain America, and Iron Man to all show up at a remote base in Siberia at the same time (which I know will happen because I read that in the script) so they can all watch the video together."
Ant-Man: "I said in my movie that I want to be a superhero so my daughter will be proud of her ex-con dad. So I'm going to aid and abet a double-murderer to escape from the authorities because that'll really make my daughter proud of her ex-con dad."
Hawkeye: "I'm going to abandon the girlfriend and little kids at home and go halfway around the world to aid and abet a double-murderer to escape from the authorities because helping a double-murderer escape takes priority over family."
Iron Man: "I know that Bucky and Cap are going to show up a the airport to hijack the quinjet to make their escape. So being the strategic genius that I am, I'm going to set up an escape-proof trap for them. And my plan is to kidnap a 15-year-old high school kid from New York and transport him out of the country under false pretenses lying to his legal guardian and then call the kid to come down from the roof. Yep, that's my escape-proof plan and it's going to work because I'm a strategic genius."
SMH
A ferry boat splits in half and the writers actually thought that just pushing together the 2 split halves of the boat can stop the boat from sinking.
Peter's best friend brings a bomb into the Washington Monument and blows up the elevator, but DHS, FBI, and DC Police don't even detain and question him. Oh, like magic is the answer to everything in WW.
|
|
|
Post by formersamhmd on Sept 27, 2017 16:55:18 GMT
No, they just don't feel the need for pretentious drama and making the villains the stars of the movie and totally downgrading the heroes to supporting roles. Winter Soldier appealed to people who wanted something "grounded" with little to no superhero stuff whatsoever. But then the Helicarriers and the Nazi AI came in and messed that all up for them which is why none of them can say it's "perfect". And no, Magneto's jibes are no more well timed than any MCU villain jokes. How is it pretentious? Is it because the MCU is so dry on dramatic substance that you think that more than 2 minutes of character's talking on screen to each other about themes of the film is now pretentious? If you need to invoke the Holocaust or Holocaust imagery (the way X-Men does) then you're pretentious. Not really, no. His replacement suit still had color on it. Widow's is what she always has worn since the 70s and Falcon's made sense as a US Air Force Armor. Please, if Magneto ever used the egg joke you'd eat it up. And then there was that bit where he made fun of Rogue's hair. People just expect the MCU to sell out and make the villains the stars of the show instead of the heroes.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2017 17:02:16 GMT
Iron Man 3 Avengers 2: Age of Ultron Thor Thor is actually pretty deep man. How often do you get a main antagonist who isn't some evil villain but is desperate for a place he feels at home and is genuinely trying to win over his father's approval. If you thought that was lame, I have to say, you have kinda been missing the point. That is an absolutely beautiful film. Man of Steel did it better.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2017 17:03:47 GMT
I only like
"Iron Man" "Guardians of the Galaxy" "The Incredible Hulk"
I just don't connect to this franchise.
|
|