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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2017 17:10:13 GMT
Guardians the Galaxy was an original concept. It's not an original "concept." It's based off a comic book. And it was loaded with all the typical Marvel tripe.
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Post by scabab on Oct 13, 2017 17:11:43 GMT
Guardians the Galaxy was an original concept. It's not an original "concept." It's based off a comic book. So are Deadpool, New Mutants and Logan.
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Peter B. Parker
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Watch the hands, not the mouth
@babygroot
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Post by Peter B. Parker on Oct 13, 2017 17:17:57 GMT
Marvel movies are not kiddie comedies, they have deeper meanings than you'd realise.
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Oct 13, 2017 17:47:53 GMT
Marvel movies are not kiddie comedies, they have deeper meanings than you'd realise. only the most shallow will find that deep. And btw, the raccoon turd always floats at the shallow end of the kiddy pool.
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Post by justanaveragejoe on Oct 13, 2017 17:53:55 GMT
Oh please, the worst X-Men film is far worse than Marvel's worst.
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Oct 13, 2017 17:58:11 GMT
It's not an original "concept." It's based off a comic book. So are Deadpool, New Mutants and Logan. The criticism here is not that characters are not original creations, but that MCU are formulated cookie cutter, conveyer belt products: eg always having the same arcs (Jerk goes through crisis becomes good guy superhero a la Iron Man, Dr Strange, Thor Antman etc) or band of jerk has to find together to fight common enemy a la Avenger or GotG. Add all the other MCU formula elements like childish jokes, faux-deaths etc and these movies essentially feel the same. Show me the Logan out of the box movies, with real R-rated stakes and dark elements and original storytelling. Where are they in the MCU? I never saw one. You can love your junk food but do not insult other's intelligence by claiming it is haute cuisine.
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Post by justanaveragejoe on Oct 13, 2017 18:03:39 GMT
Give me a break. Apocalypse was not a very good film at all and that is the most recent one. Also, they take plenty of risks. Remember GOTG? Ant Man? I am sure many expected those unknown characters to do amazing at the box office. They can make a movie about anything and it is at least above average. I love X-Men, but let's not act like it has always been perfect. Have you seen X3? First of all, XMA was 3 years ago. Secondly Apocalypse recieved mixed critical reviews. Thats not "not a very good film". That's, a movie which has a lot of good stuff but some bad stuff too. And Apocalypse itself was a risk as Fox had never attempted to do a generic world destroying supervillain type story with a big CGI battle at the end before and basically sold out to conform and copy BvS and Avengers. And GotG and Antman are NOT risks. They copy and use the same type of humour, tone and format as the other MCU movies. That is what audiences have come to rely on which is why Thor will be a comedy too. Its not about them producing unknown characters at all, thats not the risk. If Mcdonalds came out with a totally new burger next week, it will sell millions because it will have the same bland additives in it thats in everyone of their other popular burgers. Well, what is a risk to you then? Because the idea of a talking raccoon and walking tree that only says 3 words, and a guy who can shrink to the size of an ant sounds silly on paper, and no studio was ever going to make those movies. Therefore Marvel rolled the dice on those characters, and it paid off. Humor just adds the realism to those films because they are self aware that these are silly concepts. Or do you want dark and humorless Ant-Man and Guardians of the Galaxy movies?
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Post by Lord Death Man on Oct 13, 2017 18:28:22 GMT
I find it rather comical how MAD the Marveltard Community gets when movies/trailers that break out of the Marvel Formula get some traction online. They go into panic-mode and IMMEDIATELY start underplaying it, like, "Psh. Logan wasn't THAT good guys... Come on." The new Mutants trailer has been up since 3 AM PT this morning and has a scant 21,832 views on YouTube. Traction? More like sub-traction. hee... hee... hee... www.youtube.com/watch?v=S61L-lcyaPISaveSaveSaveSave
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Post by scabab on Oct 13, 2017 18:44:38 GMT
So are Deadpool, New Mutants and Logan. The criticism here is not that characters are not original creations, but that MCU are formulated cookie cutter, conveyer belt products: eg always having the same arcs (Jerk goes through crisis becomes good guy superhero a la Iron Man, Dr Strange, Thor Antman etc) or band of jerk has to find together to fight common enemy a la Avenger or GotG. Add all the other MCU formula elements like childish jokes, faux-deaths etc and these movies essentially feel the same. Show me the Logan out of the box movies, with real R-rated stakes and dark elements and original storytelling. Where are they in the MCU? I never saw one. You can love your junk food but do not insult other's intelligence by claiming it is haute cuisine. That formula has worked for Marvel with 17 movies over the last 9 years. They have all been successful critically and commercially. Why do they need to change something that isn't broken? Comics are full of light hearted jokes and faux deaths. It's been like that for decades. There's always the Netflix shows if you want to see a R rated dark MCU experience.
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Oct 13, 2017 19:31:50 GMT
The criticism here is not that characters are not original creations, but that MCU are formulated cookie cutter, conveyer belt products: eg always having the same arcs (Jerk goes through crisis becomes good guy superhero a la Iron Man, Dr Strange, Thor Antman etc) or band of jerk has to find together to fight common enemy a la Avenger or GotG. Add all the other MCU formula elements like childish jokes, faux-deaths etc and these movies essentially feel the same. Show me the Logan out of the box movies, with real R-rated stakes and dark elements and original storytelling. Where are they in the MCU? I never saw one. You can love your junk food but do not insult other's intelligence by claiming it is haute cuisine. That formula has worked for Marvel with 17 movies over the last 9 years. They have all been successful critically and commercially. Why do they need to change something that isn't broken? Fine but that's not the point discussed. We discuss that Fox-Men dares to do different, original and adult things, and that these artistic merits would likely be lost if Marvel claws the IP back. And you argue that clinging to the same children-orientated MCU formula repetition is fine because MCU are currently so successful. All the more a reason to be glad that X-Men do not go to MCU. And Graphic Novels are full of dark jokes and real deaths. It's been like that for decades. So what? Let's not destroy graphic novels by integrating them into MCU, no? We are talking about artistic merits in movies and the consequences of X-Men going back to Marvel Studios. And no thanks, I have seen some netflix shows. While some of them seem a tad more mature than MCU movies, I would hardly call that dark or R-rated. To each his own.
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Post by scabab on Oct 13, 2017 19:57:05 GMT
That formula has worked for Marvel with 17 movies over the last 9 years. They have all been successful critically and commercially. Why do they need to change something that isn't broken? Fine but that's not the point discussed. We discuss that Fox-Men dares to do different, original and adult things, and that these artistic merits would likely be lost if Marvel claws the IP back. And you argue that clinging to the same children-orientated MCU formula repetition is fine because MCU are currently so successful. All the more a reason to be glad that X-Men do not go to MCU. And Graphic Novels are full of dark jokes and real deaths. It's been like that for decades. So what? Let's not destroy graphic novels by integrating them into MCU, no? We are talking about artistic merits in movies and the consequences of X-Men going back to Marvel Studios. And no thanks, I have seen some netflix shows. While some of them seem a tad more mature than MCU movies, I would hardly call that dark or R-rated. To each his own. Ehhhh I'd say X-men dared to be different and original because they kinda had to. The budget for the X-men movies became so big by X-men 3 that they went with the prequel root for First Class to lessen the budget. The Wolverine made a considerable amount less than X-men Origins Wolverine in the US so they would be more willing to take the chance and make it R if they thought a third movie would just follow the same pattern. Deadpool they never expected to be the massive success that it was, it had a small budget so making it R rated wasn't really taking a big chance. Marvel hasn't been in a similar position yet. All it's sequels are successful and they don't make small movies. The Netflix shows were pretty R rated. Kingpin smashed that one guys head in with a car door until he was decapitated, he bashed his dad's skull in with a hammer, Punisher's Prison fight scene was violent, Jessica Jones brought up rape, that one dude ate out the blonde woman's snatch adams. You aren't going to find things like that in X-men Dark Phoenix. X-men is doing fine on its own though, it doesn't need the MCU.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Oct 13, 2017 19:58:43 GMT
So Fox understands Marvel characters better than Marvel do themselves? How does that work? Ant-Man is a good film and so is GotG to larger extent, and just because they use humor doesn't make them "kiddie comedies". They are 100% kiddie comedies, and Ant-Man stunk to high heaven. First movie I've seriously considered walking out of. No, movies like Alvin & The Chipmunks are kiddie comedies, Ant-MN and GotG are action/adventure films with a sci-fi twist. They incorporate no more or less humor into their stories than the majority of other action/adventure films in the genre. But if having a few jokes qualify them as comedies, I suppose Austin Powers and Zoolander can qualify as dramas as they carry at least one or two parts that aren't totally comical in nature.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Oct 13, 2017 19:59:33 GMT
Guardians the Galaxy was an original concept. It's not an original "concept." It's based off a comic book. And it was loaded with all the typical Marvel tripe. Neither are Deadpool, Logan, or The New Mutants. They are all based off comic books, Marvel comics to be exact.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Oct 13, 2017 20:04:31 GMT
They're not original concepts, they are all based/inspired by comics produced by Marvel/Disney, so if you're going to give the finger to Disney you might as well give the finger to the films you list as they would not exist without Marvel creating the books that gave them life originally. You also seem to think that listed films are the norm for the franchise when they really seem like tiny patches of light instead of a shining star. As a whole the franchise is pretty uneven, when things are good they're very good but if they're bad they're very, very bad - X-Men Origins: Wolverine might as well be their equivalent to Batman & Robin seeing as they erased it from existence after it came out and was met with so much heat. Marvel and Disney are also happy for the success of Logan and Deadpool and what the other better X-Men films have accomplished, this includes the filmmakers like James Gunn and Scott Derrickson. Disney has no dick. They would NEVER try creative and cool stuff like this. Everything they make needs to be for little children. But I'm glad you enjoy their kiddie movies! To each his own! They have multiple films and TV series that are very different in character development, style and tone from one another, and the appeal towards age brackets vary, try again.
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Post by blockbusted on Oct 13, 2017 20:08:16 GMT
Disney has no dick. They would NEVER try creative and cool stuff like this. Everything they make needs to be for little children. But I'm glad you enjoy their kiddie movies! To each his own! They have multiple films and TV series that are very different in character development, style and tone from one another, and the appeal towards age brackets vary, try again. And if we go by his logic, then 'Saw' films would be better than every single MCU films.
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Post by Skaathar on Oct 13, 2017 20:28:52 GMT
Sure... let's thank Fox for giving us about 5-6 good films out of a total 15 films, where the rest of those movies were garbage.
Let's thank fox for butchering every superhero character they laid hands on that wasn't part of their top 5:
Wolverine Prof. X Magneto Deadpool Stryker
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Oct 13, 2017 21:06:41 GMT
Sure... let's thank Fox for giving us about 5-6 good films out of a total 15 films, where the rest of those movies were garbage. Let's thank fox for butchering every superhero character they laid hands on that wasn't part of their top 5: Wolverine Prof. X Magneto Deadpool Stryker So basically you see a lot of positives with the FoX-Men films and especially liked those five characters and hope to see more of them in the future. Innit? Which "5-6" did you enjoy?
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Post by formersamhmd on Oct 13, 2017 21:43:05 GMT
Deadpool Logan The New Mutants They would NEVER try original concepts like these. They don't have the testicular fortitude to step outside their little kid-friendly box. Plus, they're also killing it with their X-Men films by doing something unique with each one. Disney will NEVER get the X-Men back, and thank the Good Lord Above for that. Deadpool's only claim to fame is blood and sex. Logan's only claim to fame is it being Jackman's swan song. The New Mutants has nothing going for it. What exactly is the MCU missing out on? These films offer little new to the game. X-Men will never embrace its true fantastic nature, thanks to FOX's backwards and obsolete methods. And that's a shame.
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Post by formersamhmd on Oct 13, 2017 21:44:58 GMT
And GotG and Antman are NOT risks. Making movies about little known D-Listers is very much a risk. Especially GOTG with it lacking a clear connection to the rest of the MCU. You must hate Star Wars, Star Trek, Dr Who et all. They try to be consistent with one another as well.
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Post by formersamhmd on Oct 13, 2017 21:45:32 GMT
They're not original concepts, they are all based/inspired by comics produced by Marvel/Disney, so if you're going to give the finger to Disney you might as well give the finger to the films you list as they would not exist without Marvel creating the books that gave them life originally. You also seem to think that listed films are the norm for the franchise when they really seem like tiny patches of light instead of a shining star. As a whole the franchise is pretty uneven, when things are good they're very good but if they're bad they're very, very bad - X-Men Origins: Wolverine might as well be their equivalent to Batman & Robin seeing as they erased it from existence after it came out and was met with so much heat. Marvel and Disney are also happy for the success of Logan and Deadpool and what the other better X-Men films have accomplished, this includes the filmmakers like James Gunn and Scott Derrickson. Disney has no dick. They would NEVER try creative and cool stuff like this. Everything they make needs to be for little children. But I'm glad you enjoy their kiddie movies! To each his own! But there wasn't anything creative about DP or Logan.
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