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Post by general313 on Oct 29, 2017 23:10:33 GMT
Eva, you're very much invited! And thanks for the excellent reviews. I would only disagree with your assertion that Buñuel was not a master technician. He may have often avoided virtuosic displays of cinematography but I think that was a conscious decision, preferring to create a juxtaposition of ordinariness with the surreal events taking place in his films. I think his spare style worked perfectly for his purposes. Thanks for the invite and the kudos! I actually strongly agree with your statement I bolded. David Bordwell once said in his article "Stubborn Stylists" in discussing the "flexible stylists" that: "Buñuel becomes a fascinating case: He adopts the blandest, calmest version of each trend, creating a neutral technique, the better to shock us with what he shows." I especially love how in those late films his really conservative, understated style allows reality to transition so seamlessly into surreality, and to even really blur the line between them. I remember the first time I saw Belle de jour I didn't like it very much because it really wasn't weird enough, it felt too normal compared to, say, Lynch's brand of surrealism. Then I saw it a second time years later, and a third time a bit later, and really started to appreciate how seamlessly Bunuel mixed Deneuve's waking life and fantasy life, especially towards the end when the two come into violent conflict. I also think that he learned from the Classic Hollywood masters how to do a lot with small gestures: that scene in Tristana when she's playing the piano and Bunuel cuts to close-ups of her feet, hands, and then her face with that expression, eg., says so much about her character and development (supposedly it was a moment Hitchcock complimented him on). In Discreet Charm and Phantom of Liberty, the absurdities of each scene are downplayed to such a degree that the "bland style" becomes almost the equivalent of a comedian telling the driest but funniest joke you've ever heard. Still, that kind of subtlety and "ordinariness of style to highlight extraordinary content" isn't mutually exclusive with him not being a master technician; in fact, I think the two kinda go together, like how so many young rebels in the 70s wanted to play music but couldn't, so they developed Punk Rock which required little technical skill but a ton of attitude. Just like technical virtuosity would've been counter-productive to punk's aesthetic, I think it would've also been counter-productive to Bunuel's unique voice and vision. Though I do generally value technical mastery, I do like Bunuel more than most virtuostic directors like Lynch or Fellini, so there you go. I would consider some of the examples you just gave, especially the Tristana close-ups, as evidence that he was a master technician. In any case, I'm glad that we agree on so much else about Buñuel. In rewatching his films recently I've become struck at how ahead of his time he was in using terrorism as an important plot element in his films, for example in Discreet Charm and Obscure Object of Desire. I suppose his dealing with Franco Spain (and living in exile for decades) must have made him more atune to the subject than most other film makers of the era. Have you done a review of Discreet Charm? If so, I'd be very much interested in reading it. |
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Post by Eva Yojimbo on Oct 30, 2017 8:19:16 GMT
Thanks for the invite and the kudos! I actually strongly agree with your statement I bolded. David Bordwell once said in his article "Stubborn Stylists" in discussing the "flexible stylists" that: "Buñuel becomes a fascinating case: He adopts the blandest, calmest version of each trend, creating a neutral technique, the better to shock us with what he shows." I especially love how in those late films his really conservative, understated style allows reality to transition so seamlessly into surreality, and to even really blur the line between them. I remember the first time I saw Belle de jour I didn't like it very much because it really wasn't weird enough, it felt too normal compared to, say, Lynch's brand of surrealism. Then I saw it a second time years later, and a third time a bit later, and really started to appreciate how seamlessly Bunuel mixed Deneuve's waking life and fantasy life, especially towards the end when the two come into violent conflict. I also think that he learned from the Classic Hollywood masters how to do a lot with small gestures: that scene in Tristana when she's playing the piano and Bunuel cuts to close-ups of her feet, hands, and then her face with that expression, eg., says so much about her character and development (supposedly it was a moment Hitchcock complimented him on). In Discreet Charm and Phantom of Liberty, the absurdities of each scene are downplayed to such a degree that the "bland style" becomes almost the equivalent of a comedian telling the driest but funniest joke you've ever heard. Still, that kind of subtlety and "ordinariness of style to highlight extraordinary content" isn't mutually exclusive with him not being a master technician; in fact, I think the two kinda go together, like how so many young rebels in the 70s wanted to play music but couldn't, so they developed Punk Rock which required little technical skill but a ton of attitude. Just like technical virtuosity would've been counter-productive to punk's aesthetic, I think it would've also been counter-productive to Bunuel's unique voice and vision. Though I do generally value technical mastery, I do like Bunuel more than most virtuostic directors like Lynch or Fellini, so there you go. I would consider some of the examples you just gave, especially the Tristana close-ups, as evidence that he was a master technician. In any case, I'm glad that we agree on so much else about Buñuel. In rewatching his films recently I've become struck at how ahead of his time he was in using terrorism as an important plot element in his films, for example in Discreet Charm and Obscure Object of Desire. I suppose his dealing with Franco Spain (and living in exile for decades) must have made him more atune to the subject than most other film makers of the era. Have you done a review of Discreet Charm? If so, I'd be very much interested in reading it. They're evidence that he was a master narrator. It doesn't require much skill to shoot and edit close-ups, unless you're editing a billion of them ala the Wild Bunch finale. It does, however, take a certain knowledge of how/when to effectively use such devices. Very true about terrorism, and I also think that his usage of surrealism was a superb way at exposing all of the evils and hypocrisies he saw in society, politics, and people in general. I watched Discreet Charm before I was writing reviews. It was really the first Bunuel I saw that finally clicked with me, and it's remained a favorite ever since. Before that one, I think I kept expecting Bunuel to be something he wasn't, but seeing that one I finally got what made him so unique and great. Strangely enough, I've never gotten around to rewatching it. |
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Post by Aj_June on Oct 30, 2017 8:49:17 GMT
I wonder if you guys have seen The Criminal Life of Archibaldo de la Cruz (1953). It is another unique movie in that while it attempts to be dark satire like other Bunuel Movies, the comedy in this one is more straightforward and probably intentional at times. Inability of the main character to get free from Catholicism's morality is a theme of many Bunuel movies but the Catholic symbolism is much stronger in this one.
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Post by Eva Yojimbo on Oct 30, 2017 9:37:26 GMT
I wonder if you guys have seen The Criminal Life of Archibaldo de la Cruz (1953). It is another unique movie in that while it attempts to be dark satire like other Bunuel Movies, the comedy in this one is more straightforward and probably intentional at times. Inability of the main character to get free from Catholicism's morality is a theme of many Bunuel movies but the Catholic symbolism is much stronger in this one. Yep. I had it ranked 10th of the 20 Bunuels I've seen with an 8.5/10 rating. TBH, I don't remember a lot about it other than me really liking it when I saw it, and thinking that I wish Bunuel had done more comedies. |
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Oct 30, 2017 9:45:41 GMT
 Hopefully I don't have to believe in the religion in order to appreciate the artwork.  |
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Post by cupcakes on Oct 30, 2017 12:28:42 GMT
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Post by Aj_June on Oct 30, 2017 12:32:44 GMT
Those are real hair or they wigs? I wish I had hair so full of air! Is that post your way of reminding us that music is god or something? |
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Post by cupcakes on Oct 30, 2017 12:50:51 GMT
tpfkar Those are real hair or they wigs? I wish I had hair so full of air! Is that post your way of remind us that music is god or something? They should use that still on the next Fry & Laurie DVD set. Many fine religious depictions in music.
thank god |
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Post by general313 on Oct 30, 2017 14:58:24 GMT
I wonder if you guys have seen The Criminal Life of Archibaldo de la Cruz (1953). It is another unique movie in that while it attempts to be dark satire like other Bunuel Movies, the comedy in this one is more straightforward and probably intentional at times. Inability of the main character to get free from Catholicism's morality is a theme of many Bunuel movies but the Catholic symbolism is much stronger in this one. I haven't seen that one, looks a bit hard to find on video (not available on Netflix, but is for sale on Amazon). |
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Post by general313 on Oct 30, 2017 15:00:18 GMT
That should serve as a warning to everyone about what happens when you get too much God. |
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Post by Eva Yojimbo on Oct 30, 2017 21:54:46 GMT
I wonder if you guys have seen The Criminal Life of Archibaldo de la Cruz (1953). It is another unique movie in that while it attempts to be dark satire like other Bunuel Movies, the comedy in this one is more straightforward and probably intentional at times. Inability of the main character to get free from Catholicism's morality is a theme of many Bunuel movies but the Catholic symbolism is much stronger in this one. I haven't seen that one, looks a bit hard to find on video (not available on Netflix, but is for sale on Amazon). is the version I have. It also has El on it as well (another fine film). |
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Post by general313 on Oct 30, 2017 23:59:03 GMT
I haven't seen that one, looks a bit hard to find on video (not available on Netflix, but is for sale on Amazon). is the version I have. It also has El on it as well (another fine film). Thanks, I'll check that out. |
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Post by viola on Nov 29, 2017 15:10:28 GMT
I don't know how to post a picture from a tablet. Search for "Kramskoi Christ in the Wilderness". It's a painting that I have seen in a museum in Moscow that I found beautiful. It shows Jesus sitting alone in the desert with the saddest expression on his face. I am atheist to the bone and I thought it was incredibly moving.  Although I don’t post often, I’ve lurked on this board for a while, and I want to contribute to my favorite thread. Jep Gambardella brought up one beautiful Russian painting – here is another one I have liked since my early college days:   : It now reminds me of a scene in Andrei Rublev where he describes the peasant life - “New misfortunes constantly befall [them]; either Tartars three times an autumn, or famine, or plague – and he still keeps on working, working, working, meekly bearing his cross.” Looking at this 1880 painting, I’m not surprised what happened 100 years ago, yet it also expresses the power of religion to either oppress or uplift. P.S. I thought It wasn't showing the whole pic (looking in the "Edit Post" page,) but the thread after editing did show it - OK, freeforums, make a liar out of me... :-} |
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Post by cupcakes on Nov 29, 2017 19:53:24 GMT
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Post by viola on Nov 30, 2017 15:15:07 GMT
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Nov 30, 2017 16:02:54 GMT
viola, those technical difficulties have pestered me, too! Slowly, but slowly, I got the hang of it, mostly... I am sure I'll have more!
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Post by viola on Nov 30, 2017 16:08:46 GMT
viola , those technical difficulties have pestered me, too! Slowly, but slowly, I got the hang of it, mostly... I am sure I'll have more! Thanks, Rachel, Some things we have to learn the hard way!  |
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Post by viola on Apr 8, 2018 12:09:24 GMT
 Although this is not specifically a religious painting, I wanted to post something by one of my favorite early modernist artists. It does seem inspired by holy family pictures, though, so expresses the relationship between art and religion. |
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