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Post by Richard Kimble on Nov 1, 2017 23:48:12 GMT
EDIT for an out-of-nowhere afterthought: y'know who would have made a great Henry Higgins if the timing had been right? Clifton Webb. In a sense, he embodies such a character in Laura, which might be thought of as the dark side of Pygmalion's aftermath. Except that as you say it would have been the dark side of Pygmalion. I don't think he would have been right for the "regular" Higgins at all. I just thought of another dark side of Pygmalion: Svengali aka Trilby, which I believe was written before Shaw's play. |
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Post by mattgarth on Nov 1, 2017 23:53:58 GMT
FANCY PANTS / RUGGLES OF RED GAP
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Post by Richard Kimble on Nov 1, 2017 23:56:55 GMT
I'm still trying to stick to film musicals adapted from non-musical sources I'm sure there are a bunch of studio-owned dramatic properties that were musicalized: Warners redid the Penrod stores as vehicles for Doris Day Brother Rat became About FaceZiegfeld Girl (is a that a musical?) became Give A Girl A Break, which was intended to be a Kelly vehicle but got scaled down. It has two great Fosse moments: Ira Gershwin's "Our United State" and a spectacular fantasy dance number involving backwards film; Donen claims it was the most complicated sequence he ever shot. |
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Post by Richard Kimble on Nov 1, 2017 23:57:58 GMT
FANCY PANTS / RUGGLES OF RED GAP Er... I dispute your categorizing Fancy Pants as a musical |
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Post by Doghouse6 on Nov 2, 2017 0:08:27 GMT
I just thought of another dark side of Pygmalion: Svengali aka Trilby, which I believe was written before Shaw's play. That sounds like it would qualify as another variation on the theme. So might The Taming Of the Shrew to go back even farther. In either case, they boil down to something even more basic: Woman transformed by Man into the creature of his desires. A couple much later variations rather reverse the sexes, but have some fun making it a two-way street as well: The African Queen and Father Goose; the prim woman "tames" the male, while he humanizes her. |
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Post by Doghouse6 on Nov 2, 2017 0:27:04 GMT
FANCY PANTS / RUGGLES OF RED GAP Er... I dispute your categorizing Fancy Pants as a musical That raises an interesting question that goes to just what defines a musical, which this remark also encompasses: Is it quantity of numbers? Fancy Pants has two, they're both of the type that advance the narrative, as in a B'way book musical, and are also of the "bursting into song anywhere" sort. Ziegfeld Girl, on the other hand, has eight, but they all take place in the believable context of being onstage or in rehearsal or audition. I do think of ZG as a musical. So is it quantity? If so, we'd have to ask ourselves how many more Fancy Pants would need in order to qualify: one; two; three? The lines can get blurred. I'm just brainstorming here. |
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Post by Richard Kimble on Nov 2, 2017 0:44:37 GMT
Er... I dispute your categorizing Fancy Pants as a musical That raises an interesting question that goes to just what defines a musical, which this remark also encompasses: Is it quantity of numbers? Fancy Pants has two, they're both of the type that advance the narrative, as in a B'way book musical, and are also of the "bursting into song anywhere" sort. Ziegfeld Girl, on the other hand, has eight, but they all take place in the believable context of being onstage or in rehearsal or audition. I do think of ZG as a musical. So is it quantity? If so, we'd have to ask ourselves how many more Fancy Pants would need in order to qualify: one; two; three? The lines can get blurred. I'm just brainstorming here. I've never actually seen Ziegfeld Girl. W/Garland in it I figgered it must have some songs. Two songs are not enough to qualify Fancy Pants. Even Hope and Crosby epics where Bing has several songs and they have at least one number together are not "musicals" to me. Is Dancing Lady (1933, Astaire's debut) a musical? |
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Post by gunshotwound on Nov 2, 2017 1:08:28 GMT
How about:
Bugsy Malone The First Nudie Musical Pete's Dragon Phantom of the Paradise The Muppet Movie The Umbrellas of Cherbourg The Young Girls of Rochefort |
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Post by mattgarth on Nov 2, 2017 1:36:59 GMT
FANCY PANTS / RUGGLES OF RED GAP Er... I dispute your categorizing Fancy Pants as a musical OK Dr. Kimble, if you insist. Now, do you want to inform IMDb of their incorrect listing -- or should I? |
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Post by Richard Kimble on Nov 2, 2017 1:52:55 GMT
Er... I dispute your categorizing Fancy Pants as a musical OK Dr. Kimble, if you insist. Now, do you want to inform IMDb of their incorrect listing -- or should I? IMDb made a mistake?!?!? |
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Post by mattgarth on Nov 2, 2017 2:00:27 GMT
OK Dr. Kimble, if you insist. Now, do you want to inform IMDb of their incorrect listing -- or should I? IMDb made a mistake?!?!?So, who should I believe -- them or you? (Decisions, decisions) |
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Post by Richard Kimble on Nov 2, 2017 2:12:42 GMT
So, who should I believe -- them or you? "I know it's hard to believe me... It's easy to believe them, all the facts point to them being right... Maybe I'd believe them too if I were in your place... But I swear to you -- I'm telling the truth. So help me God, I'm telling the truth."  |
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Post by mattgarth on Nov 2, 2017 2:22:27 GMT
I look into this thread and see only darkness -- but then fate moves its huge hand.
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Post by teleadm on Nov 2, 2017 18:03:33 GMT
Reading down the lines here, this subject sure was more complicated than it looked at first glance.  |
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Post by teleadm on Nov 2, 2017 18:54:15 GMT
I try a few other ones here:
Cover Girl 1944 Rita Hayworth, Gene Kelly
Anchors Aweigh 1945 Gene Kelly, Frank Sinatra
An American in Paris 1951 Gene Kelly, Leslie Caron
Xanadu 1980 Olivia Newton-John, Gene Kelly
Robin and the 7 Hoods 1964 The Rat Pack
Take Me Out to the Ball Game 1949 Frank Sinatra, Esther Williams, Gene Kelly
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Post by teleadm on Nov 2, 2017 19:35:16 GMT
Then maybe the two musicals Rita Hayworth made with Fred Astaire also were written directly for the movies:
You'll Never Get Rich 1941
You Were Never Lovelier 1942
I can't find any sources that indicates otherwise.
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Post by Doghouse6 on Nov 2, 2017 19:36:37 GMT
Two songs are not enough to qualify Fancy Pants. Even Hope and Crosby epics where Bing has several songs and they have at least one number together are not "musicals" to me. Is Dancing Lady (1933, Astaire's debut) a musical? To your question, I'd say yes: it follows a basic pattern established in early screen "backstage musicals," wherein big production numbers are backloaded in the final reels as sort of grand finale, with other songs "teased" in earlier scenes depicting rehearsal or auditions, but all presented in a realistic rather than the stylized fashion more common in Astaire's - and many other - musical films (the bursting into song or dance anytime, anywhere). Your point about the "Road" pictures illustrates that blurring to which I referred. Road To Morocco, for example, features four numbers, all of the stylized variety, yet doesn't feel like a musical; rather, a comedy with songs. Astaire and Rogers's penultimate RKO film, Carefree, also features only four numbers of the stylized type (only three of which are sung), yet does feel like a musical in spite of its "screwball comedy" mounting. As teleadm observed above about the thread topic, what defines a film musical in general may be more complicated than it looks at first glance. "Film noir" has been hashed out at length on these and other boards, and I recently had a similar discussion about "horror" on another site that grew out of a discussion about Jaws. As with any of them, each of us might adopt a we-know-it-when-we-see-it viewpoint, but as with these and, no doubt, others (westerns, perhaps), it may be the case that there are always some that will skirt the boundaries. |
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Post by snsurone on Nov 2, 2017 22:23:19 GMT
Most of the Fred and Ginger films were original musicals for the screen, with the exceptions of "The Gay Divorcee" amd "Roberta." Flying Down To Rio Top Hat Carefree Swing Time Damsel I’m Distress (not with Ginger) Story of Vernon and Irene Castle Barkleys of Broadway During the Depression, it was difficult for even the best songwriters to have a hit on Broadway, so Berlin, Kern, Gershwin and others headed for Hollywood. Actually, THE GAY DIVORCEE (called THE GAY DIVORCE) and ROBERTA were original stage plays before they were made into movies. ROBERTA was noted for an early stage performance by Bob Hope, who essentially played the Astaire role--minus the dancing. Astaire starred with Claire Luce in THE GAY DIVORCE. |
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Post by snsurone on Nov 2, 2017 22:26:29 GMT
Reading down the lines here, this subject sure was more complicated than it looked at first glance. No doubt because I goofed it up from the beginning. But I've enjoyed all the contributions anyway. Thanks to everyone for making the best of it - and enlightening me along the way. Turns out there's a goldmine of film musicals that were musicals original to film from the beginning, which I would have known if I hadn't been half asleep when I first posted. Just to prove the point, here are a couple of very early talkie original film musicals: Hallelujah (1929), directed by King Vidor The Broadway Melody (1929), starring Bessie Love (Best Picture Oscar winner) What was I thinking?!! Spidey, Bessie Love was NOT an Oscar winner. The winner that year was Mary Pickford for her performance in COQUETTE. |
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Post by Richard Kimble on Nov 2, 2017 23:02:57 GMT
. I'd still like to see a newer, even better version, but I doubt that will ever happen. If there is ever another film Liliom it will be a remake of Carousel |
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