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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2017 3:46:47 GMT
I'm not really sure if I'm asking anything here but its something I get confused about.
But I wonder why some Christians/theists who do fully understand why others are non believers still consider themselves Christian or whatever when they a lot of the times agree with what non believers think. My mom would be an example of this because she seemed to completely understand where I was coming from when I told her I wasn't a Christian anymore awhile back and even agreed with everything I said. She didn't argue with any of my points and "agreed 100%" ..but it seemed to be expected for a believer and non believer to disagree on at least some points. I just find it interesting because I stopped being a Christian when none of the beliefs made any sense to me and apparently doesn't make any sense to my mom either but she still considers herself Christian. We seem to agree on everything, but we still identify ourselves as opposite things from each other. It's just odd :/
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Nov 8, 2017 4:20:08 GMT
I don;t recall ever agreeing with a non-believer against my beliefs.
They may have a misunderstanding of what my beliefs are so they may think I'm agreeing to something that isn't my beliefs, but that's not the same thing.
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Post by Vegas on Nov 8, 2017 4:23:05 GMT
People have a range of beliefs.... and a range of what they consider to be acceptable to their beliefs. You might claim to be an atheist because you don't believe in a literal Adam & Eve story.... and she might consider herself a Christian who also doesn't believe in a literal Adam & Eve story... as she might not see that as being a vital part of being defined as a Christian.  |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2017 4:44:16 GMT
I guess I just mean why I don't believe in God period. She seemed to agree with me so thats where its confusing lol.
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Post by Eva Yojimbo on Nov 8, 2017 5:34:41 GMT
My guess is that even when believers agree with or understand the reasons for why non-believers don't believe intellectually they still feel like they should believe emotionally, that such faith is a virtue even when it doesn't make sense. Daniel Dennett even coined a term for this: belief in belief |
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Post by Arlon10 on Nov 8, 2017 6:06:20 GMT
You probably need to think about what really matters. Do you understand that there are things people should not do to each other? You might have seen or heard in various places that atheists divorce less than Christians do such as on this page. Notice that they don't list divorce rates for Jews. Do you believe those numbers? As a general rule I don't believe anything I see on TV or the internet. It would not surprise me that divorce rates among Christians are high though. Some really strange people call themselves Christians. |
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Post by Eva Yojimbo on Nov 8, 2017 6:18:51 GMT
As a general rule I don't believe anything I see on TV or the internet. That's a good rule. I mean, your website is on the internet! |
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Post by Arlon10 on Nov 8, 2017 6:24:06 GMT
As a general rule I don't believe anything I see on TV or the internet. That's a good rule. I mean, your website is on the internet! It is a very good rule. You shouldn't think it's valuable just because it's on the internet. You might learn later that it is valuable because I put it there. Time will tell. |
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Post by Eva Yojimbo on Nov 8, 2017 6:33:24 GMT
That's a good rule. I mean, your website is on the internet! You might learn later that it is valuable because I put it there. Time will tell. Yes, time will tell if I ever have a traumatic brain injury that would make me value your website. |
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Post by The Lost One on Nov 8, 2017 8:04:11 GMT
I'm not really sure if I'm asking anything here but its something I get confused about. But I wonder why some Christians/theists who do fully understand why others are non believers still consider themselves Christian or whatever when they a lot of the times agree with what non believers think. My mom would be an example of this because she seemed to completely understand where I was coming from when I told her I wasn't a Christian anymore awhile back and even agreed with everything I said. She didn't argue with any of my points and "agreed 100%" ..but it seemed to be expected for a believer and non believer to disagree on at least some points. I just find it interesting because I stopped being a Christian when none of the beliefs made any sense to me and apparently doesn't make any sense to my mom either but she still considers herself Christian. We seem to agree on everything, but we still identify ourselves as opposite things from each other. It's just odd :/ I imagine the similarity is you both agree that the evidence does not point to a god necessarily, and that some of the core beliefs in Christianity are confusing, but she has faith despite the poor evidence and incomprehensible theology while you do not. Faith is I think by definition absurd - attempts to rationalise it seem to miss the point. |
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Post by gadreel on Nov 8, 2017 16:39:33 GMT
You might learn later that it is valuable because I put it there. Time will tell. Yes, time will tell if I ever have a traumatic brain injury that would make me value your website. Woah! Shots fired. His website does have the value of being a terrible warning about thinking you are smarter than you really are. |
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Nov 8, 2017 17:01:09 GMT
Yes, time will tell if I ever have a traumatic brain injury that would make me value your website. Woah! Shots fired. His website does have the value of being a terrible warning about thinking you are smarter than you really are. You are on quite a roll, today, gadreel! Just look at us, connecting as humans  |
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Post by gadreel on Nov 8, 2017 17:03:23 GMT
Woah! Shots fired. His website does have the value of being a terrible warning about thinking you are smarter than you really are. You are on quite a roll, today, gadreel! Just look at us, connecting as humans Actually I am just procrastinating because this work is somehow both complex and boring. |
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Nov 8, 2017 17:08:29 GMT
You are on quite a roll, today, gadreel! Just look at us, connecting as humans Actually I am just procrastinating because this work is somehow both complex and boring. I used to just crastinate, then I became a pro... (credit to Hallmark) I used to do work both complex and boring; proofreading truck part catalogs, so I feel your pain. |
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Post by gadreel on Nov 8, 2017 17:11:13 GMT
Actually I am just procrastinating because this work is somehow both complex and boring. I used to just crastinate, then I became a pro... (credit to Hallmark) I used to do work both complex and boring; proofreading truck part catalogs, so I feel your pain. I am trawling through 15 000 lines of configuration to try and find differing UUID's |
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Nov 8, 2017 17:16:00 GMT
I'm not really sure if I'm asking anything here but its something I get confused about. But I wonder why some Christians/theists who do fully understand why others are non believers still consider themselves Christian or whatever when they a lot of the times agree with what non believers think. My mom would be an example of this because she seemed to completely understand where I was coming from when I told her I wasn't a Christian anymore awhile back and even agreed with everything I said. She didn't argue with any of my points and "agreed 100%" ..but it seemed to be expected for a believer and non believer to disagree on at least some points. I just find it interesting because I stopped being a Christian when none of the beliefs made any sense to me and apparently doesn't make any sense to my mom either but she still considers herself Christian. We seem to agree on everything, but we still identify ourselves as opposite things from each other. It's just odd :/ I imagine the similarity is you both agree that the evidence does not point to a god necessarily, and that some of the core beliefs in Christianity are confusing, but she has faith despite the poor evidence and incomprehensible theology while you do not. Faith is I think by definition absurd - attempts to rationalise it seem to miss the point. That makes me think of Forrest Gump, who said "Mama always said, God is mysterious..." It only seems to work when left at being mysterious. Also, Monicah's mother is older, and grew up identifying as a Christian, and to change her outward approval of it at this late date is more challenging than for someone who is young. And, she may be agreeing with Monicah to keep their relationship intact, and hoping, as my mother does, that "once saved, always saved" is a rule god follows. |
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Nov 8, 2017 17:17:11 GMT
I used to just crastinate, then I became a pro... (credit to Hallmark) I used to do work both complex and boring; proofreading truck part catalogs, so I feel your pain. I am trawling through 15 000 lines of configuration to try and find differing UUID's Oh, man, that sucks! |
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Nov 8, 2017 17:25:25 GMT
I'm not really sure if I'm asking anything here but its something I get confused about. But I wonder why some Christians/theists who do fully understand why others are non believers still consider themselves Christian or whatever when they a lot of the times agree with what non believers think. My mom would be an example of this because she seemed to completely understand where I was coming from when I told her I wasn't a Christian anymore awhile back and even agreed with everything I said. She didn't argue with any of my points and "agreed 100%" ..but it seemed to be expected for a believer and non believer to disagree on at least some points. I just find it interesting because I stopped being a Christian when none of the beliefs made any sense to me and apparently doesn't make any sense to my mom either but she still considers herself Christian. We seem to agree on everything, but we still identify ourselves as opposite things from each other. It's just odd :/ I imagine the similarity is you both agree that the evidence does not point to a god necessarily, and that some of the core beliefs in Christianity are confusing, but she has faith despite the poor evidence and incomprehensible theology while you do not. Faith is I think by definition absurd - attempts to rationalise it seem to miss the point. I can't do anything but rationally practice faith. If it's irrational, it's merely a belief and we can believe anything to be true. |
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Post by The Lost One on Nov 8, 2017 18:29:00 GMT
I can't do anything but rationally practice faith. If it's irrational, it's merely a belief and we can believe anything to be true. Sorry, I didn't mean only the irrational have faith or those with faith live their lives in an irrational manner. I meant statements of faith are generally on the surface absurd and this is I think what makes them statements of faith. I'm not sure natural unbiased inquiry would lead you to believe in God without a leap of faith somewhere along the line but I see nothing wrong with that. A good example (and maybe this is one Monica and her mum talked about) is how can Jesus be fully human and fully divine? It's absurd. Yet it also seems to mean something to the believer even if that meaning is impossible to convey to the non-believer. |
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Post by Eva Yojimbo on Nov 9, 2017 1:28:27 GMT
Yes, time will tell if I ever have a traumatic brain injury that would make me value your website. His website does have the value of being a terrible warning about thinking you are smarter than you really are. Arlon is the best exemplar of the Dunning-Kruger effect that I've ever seen. His posts/website could be used as case studies in textbooks on the phenomenon. |
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