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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2017 14:44:37 GMT
I think there's a general principle that you shouldn't be stupid with money, but you don't exactly need a religion to tell you that.
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Post by Isapop on Nov 8, 2017 15:10:17 GMT
Some of these religion based rationales to call gambling a sin are pretty poorly reasoned. Such as:
"Gambling is motivated by a desire to get something for nothing." "...promote a desire to get something for nothing" First, that's factually wrong. Gambling does not give you "something for nothing". With gambling you get the low probability of a big payout in exchange for the high probability of a small loss. Second, there's a logical absurdity. I'm going to assume that religionists who say gambling is a sin would not, however, say that accepting a gift is a sin. And that means, under their morality, that the "desire to get something for nothing" is sinful, but the actual act of accepting something for nothing is just fine. Ridiculous.
"Gambling is driven by greed" That's just a facile assertion offered with no attempt to support it. On the contrary, existing studies show that the reasons that people gamble do not involve greed. For the vast majority it is a form of entertainment, and with compulsive, self-destructive gamblers it is addiction to both the thrill of the risk and to the rush of the rare success. And anyone who takes time to think about it realizes that people who are truly greedy do not gamble, because greedy people avoid enterprises where they will probably lose. Greedy people are fixated on ways to increase their wealth that don't entail any serious risk of loss.
"Gamblers hope to gain money through the losses of others" In that regard buying insurance (betting that something bad will happen to you) works on the same principle as gambling. With insurance you put in a small amount. Winning is defined as something bad happening to you. And then you get a big payout from the proceeds of other people who haven't "won". These religionists don't call insurance a sin. But it works just like gambling.
"Gamblers often rely on superstitions or luck. However, God views such beliefs as a form of idolatry, which is incompatible with his worship." This is obviously not any argument against gambling itself, but only an argument against incorporating superstitions into your play.
"Gambling can arouse an unhealthy competitive spirit" Utterly incoherent. Countless activities in both recreational pursuits and in people's careers arouse some kind of competition. And any form of competition can become unhealthy, depending on the personalities involved. Shall all those activities now be considered as sinful for such a reason? Again, ridiculous.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Nov 8, 2017 15:23:10 GMT
This would seem to rule out any consideration of Pascal's famous Wager then, when humans bet with their lives that God either exists or does not.
Arguably too, a belief in a preferred supernatural entity is something of a gamble in and of itself, especially when there is no more specific and unambiguous evidence, let alone proof, for the existence of one than for another - while, as Pascal realised, a wrong choice might be fatal. As has been discussed here before, the decision over which deity to follow is often dictated by cultural and familial imperatives rather than any cool and informed weighing up of alternative belief systems by the individual (although this may well happen for a few). I would think that Pascal's Wager would be ruled out by many religions anyway since they are often based on more than a chance they are right. That would certainly be the case with JW's.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Nov 8, 2017 15:43:56 GMT
IsapopIt's ridiculous to think of gambling as an investment. The context would be that no effort is provided in obtaining the riches and that is accurate. A gift is different because there is not a desire placed on a gift. I would argue someone expecting an undeserved gift is as selfish as a gambler. Also, the gambler does not look at it as a high probability for failure. They are expecting a win on the first try. Again, if gambling is driven by fun, then there likely is no issue. I know that's why I play poker with my kids for no cash. But the gambling industry is not based on that and only goobers think that. The hook is the money. It's always been the money and the side benefits are perhaps the fun or competition, or the thought of skill involved. That isn't how insurance works. That is a shared pool of resources for a known set of risks. You are not hoping someone suffers when purchasing it and it's not a gamble to say that it's entirely possible to have an accident or die, depending on the type of insurance purchased. The religions aren't saying there is something wrong with benefits such as lower premiums when those known risks are lower than expected. It's another reason not to take up gambling if that is something you rely on. You should have just said nothing could possibly go wrong with gambling than be outraged by what are some pretty logical reasons for a religious group to believe gambling is a danger. You should look at some other links of theirs in relation to unhealthy competition. Hint: It is not geared solely toward gambling.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Nov 8, 2017 16:10:21 GMT
I don't agree with this to be honest. As a gambler I invest my money and time and so I give something to gain back money, ego boost and excitement. I think this has a lot to do with how religions view gambling. I would never think of gambling as an investment since there's no real sense of ownership, return rate, or quid pro quo.
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Post by general313 on Nov 8, 2017 16:37:09 GMT
Until recently most I think most Americans considered gambling to be sinful. In the past gambling was completely illegal in most states, giving Las Vegas and places like Atlantic City a virtual monopoly in the casino business. In California the lottery was legalized within the last 20 or 30 years, if memory serves. Many forms of gambling are still restricted, for example certain forms of gambling can occur only on Indian reservations (Indian gaming). My parents grew up thinking that gambling was sinful, and even kept Rook cards in the house and played games with them, no "real" playing cards. My parent's parents thought that dancing and movies were sinful too, but my parents succumbed to the forces of Satan/ungodly world/what-have-you on those issues. My parents did continue the shunning of gambling and drinking however. Some of my parent's friend went even further in avoiding "instrumental music". Such is the Puritan and Quaker background of the U.S.
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Post by Isapop on Nov 8, 2017 16:41:20 GMT
CoolJGS said: "You should have just said nothing could possibly go wrong with gambling than be outraged by what are some pretty logical reasons for a religious group to believe gambling is a danger."
Why in the world would I say "nothing could possibly go wrong with gambling" (other than to satisfy your need to ascribe to me a view I don't hold and never implied)? Obviously things could go wrong with gambling, just as they could go wrong with mountain climbing, taking prescription medications (all those possible side effects) and a thousand other things you could think of. But urging caution when doing any of them is light years away from concluding that any of them are a sin against God.
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Nov 8, 2017 16:45:10 GMT
Human life itself is something of a gamble. When you plan to do something tomorrow you're gambling that you'll still be alive to do it. You just have to use your own sense.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Nov 8, 2017 17:12:16 GMT
CoolJGS said: "You should have just said nothing could possibly go wrong with gambling than be outraged by what are some pretty logical reasons for a religious group to believe gambling is a danger."
Why in the world would I say "nothing could possibly go wrong with gambling" (other than to satisfy your need to ascribe to me a view I don't hold and never implied)? Obviously things could go wrong with gambling, just as they could go wrong with mountain climbing, taking prescription medications (all those possible side effects) and a thousand other things you could think of. But urging caution when doing any of them is light years away from concluding that any of them are a sin against God. It's mainly because you were using some pretty ridiculous hyperbole to describe a religion's view of gambling. Every single aspect mention is an aspect of danger in regards to gambling and especially in regards to a particular religious viewpoint, so it can;t be so stupid as to outright dismiss which you clearly did unless you can provide something better than you've done. It certainly seemed to me that gambling was pretty much a harmless affair for most people. Maybe it is and maybe it isn't since I don't gamble, but not on the reasons you dismiss the religious view.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Nov 8, 2017 17:13:24 GMT
Human life itself is something of a gamble. When you plan to do something tomorrow you're gambling that you'll still be alive to do it. You just have to use your own sense. Human life is not a gamble unless you choose to live your life that way. Choice is not gambling either.
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Nov 8, 2017 17:20:31 GMT
Human life itself is something of a gamble. When you plan to do something tomorrow you're gambling that you'll still be alive to do it. You just have to use your own sense. Human life is not a gamble unless you choose to live your life that way. Choice is not gambling either. Whatever.
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Post by gadreel on Nov 8, 2017 17:21:19 GMT
Human life is not a gamble unless you choose to live your life that way. Choice is not gambling either. Whatever. Man you must have won a lot of debates at high school.
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Nov 8, 2017 17:29:10 GMT
Until recently most I think most Americans considered gambling to be sinful. In the past gambling was completely illegal in most states, giving Las Vegas and places like Atlantic City a virtual monopoly in the casino business. In California the lottery was legalized within the last 20 or 30 years, if memory serves. Many forms of gambling are still restricted, for example certain forms of gambling can occur only on Indian reservations (Indian gaming). My parents grew up thinking that gambling was sinful, and even kept Rook cards in the house and played games with them, no "real" playing cards. My parent's parents thought that dancing and movies were sinful too, but my parents succumbed to the forces of Satan/ungodly world/what-have-you on those issues. My parents did continue the shunning of gambling and drinking however. Some of my parent's friend went even further in avoiding "instrumental music". Such is the Puritan and Quaker background of the U.S. Wow, and I thought being raised Southern Baptist was restrictive. Do you know why Southern Baptists won't have sex standing up? Some one might see them and think they are dancing!!!! 
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Nov 8, 2017 17:29:37 GMT
Man you must have won a lot of debates at high school. Some debates are like Vietnam. The only way to win is to walk away. I have an unscientific premonition that this thread is going to get a lot more attention than my RFID thread did.
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Post by general313 on Nov 8, 2017 18:20:58 GMT
Until recently most I think most Americans considered gambling to be sinful. In the past gambling was completely illegal in most states, giving Las Vegas and places like Atlantic City a virtual monopoly in the casino business. In California the lottery was legalized within the last 20 or 30 years, if memory serves. Many forms of gambling are still restricted, for example certain forms of gambling can occur only on Indian reservations (Indian gaming). My parents grew up thinking that gambling was sinful, and even kept Rook cards in the house and played games with them, no "real" playing cards. My parent's parents thought that dancing and movies were sinful too, but my parents succumbed to the forces of Satan/ungodly world/what-have-you on those issues. My parents did continue the shunning of gambling and drinking however. Some of my parent's friend went even further in avoiding "instrumental music". Such is the Puritan and Quaker background of the U.S. Wow, and I thought being raised Southern Baptist was restrictive. Do you know why Southern Baptists won't have sex standing up? Some one might see them and think they are dancing!!!!  LOL! Fortunately my parents were on the whole pretty open minded and rational even though they took their Christian faith so seriously. It wasn't like growing up in an Amish village. My dad would occasionally try to get me to read publications by the ICR but I was able to convince him of the dubiousness of their arguments.
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Nov 8, 2017 18:29:32 GMT
Wow, and I thought being raised Southern Baptist was restrictive. Do you know why Southern Baptists won't have sex standing up? Some one might see them and think they are dancing!!!!  LOL! Fortunately my parents were on the whole pretty open minded and rational even though they took their Christian faith so seriously. It wasn't like growing up in an Amish village. My dad would occasionally try to get me to read publications by the ICR but I was able to convince him of the dubiousness of their arguments. Lucky you, with open minded and rational parents; my dad was seriously serious until the day he died, and my 94 year old mother is still serious. When she turns on the proselytizing, my usual answer is, "Well, in this country you are free to believe that." Then I change the subject...
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Post by Isapop on Nov 8, 2017 18:35:41 GMT
CoolJGS said: "Every single aspect mention is an aspect of danger in regards to gambling and especially in regards to a particular religious viewpoint, so it can;t be so stupid as to outright dismiss."
I did not "outright dismiss" the religious arguments you cited. I refuted them by providing both facts and logic. Learn the difference. When a religion concludes that some activity is a sin, but does so first by making a false and unsupported assertion about it ("greed is the motivator") and then by pointing to dangers that would apply to many other activities that are not deemed to be sins, then it is displaying reasoning powers that are deservedly seen as abysmal.
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Post by Rodney Farber on Nov 8, 2017 19:30:42 GMT
This question came to my mind as I recently watched the twilight zone episode called The Fever
To compulsive sports bettors like me gambling is extremely exciting but at the same time exhausting and frustrating thing. My dream is to win the illusive 100000$ streak survivor contest on covers forum by making 25 correct predictions in a row. My hit rate at the moment is 56% which only 1 out of 100 might have after 100 bets. And still I have not come anywhere near 25 straight correct bets.The bets are all handicaped so actual probability of getting each of them correct is 50%. Nobody has been able to win the 100000$ award till now but one person won the $25,000 award (after getting 20 consecutive wins) and won 24 straight bets. I think Islam is strictly against Gambling. There are instances in Mahabharata where Krishna's friend are gambling but Krishna doesn't stop his friends so I guess Hinduism is not much against gambling. I believe some forms of Christianity are also against gambling. Though modern day Christians usually see no problem with gambling as long as one does not over-indulge in it. What do you guys think about gambling? Is gambling against religion in some way? Some times gambling is likened to drinking but with advent of internet I think most of the sports fan indulge in some sort of gambling. My personal opinion is that I will not advice anyone to develop habit of gambling. It is extremely frustrating and addictive. But I personally don't find there is anything immoral about it unless one has a family to look after and still indulges in gambling. Tags- Arlon10 , CoolJGS☺ , clusium , The Herald Erjen . Atheists are also encouraged to share their views Give the church "seed" money and it doubles your chances for an afterlife.
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Nov 8, 2017 19:48:33 GMT
This question came to my mind as I recently watched the twilight zone episode called The Fever
To compulsive sports bettors like me gambling is extremely exciting but at the same time exhausting and frustrating thing. My dream is to win the illusive 100000$ streak survivor contest on covers forum by making 25 correct predictions in a row. My hit rate at the moment is 56% which only 1 out of 100 might have after 100 bets. And still I have not come anywhere near 25 straight correct bets.The bets are all handicaped so actual probability of getting each of them correct is 50%. Nobody has been able to win the 100000$ award till now but one person won the $25,000 award (after getting 20 consecutive wins) and won 24 straight bets. I think Islam is strictly against Gambling. There are instances in Mahabharata where Krishna's friend are gambling but Krishna doesn't stop his friends so I guess Hinduism is not much against gambling. I believe some forms of Christianity are also against gambling. Though modern day Christians usually see no problem with gambling as long as one does not over-indulge in it. What do you guys think about gambling? Is gambling against religion in some way? Some times gambling is likened to drinking but with advent of internet I think most of the sports fan indulge in some sort of gambling. My personal opinion is that I will not advice anyone to develop habit of gambling. It is extremely frustrating and addictive. But I personally don't find there is anything immoral about it unless one has a family to look after and still indulges in gambling. Tags- Arlon10 , CoolJGS☺ , clusium , The Herald Erjen . Atheists are also encouraged to share their views Give the church "seed" money and it doubles your chances for an afterlife. The bingo and raffles make sense - see above - but I had a Catholic co-worker who, EVERY WEEK for the 13 years we worked together, played the POWERBALL. And never won, not even enough to break even. She was really good about doing good works, though... helped older neighbors in her area.
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Post by general313 on Nov 8, 2017 20:02:31 GMT
LOL! Fortunately my parents were on the whole pretty open minded and rational even though they took their Christian faith so seriously. It wasn't like growing up in an Amish village. My dad would occasionally try to get me to read publications by the ICR but I was able to convince him of the dubiousness of their arguments. Lucky you, with open minded and rational parents; my dad was seriously serious until the day he died, and my 94 year old mother is still serious. When she turns on the proselytizing, my usual answer is, "Well, in this country you are free to believe that." Then I change the subject... When it came to core religious views I made my parents aware of my views but we wouldn't talk about it too much, knowing nobody was going to change their mind. My parents manifested their conservativeness in different ways. My dad remained suspicious on moral and social issues like alcohol, drugs and even how trustworthy Catholics were, while my mom had a more liberal in that way. On the other hand, my dad was more open to potentially blasphemous humor (he loved Monty Python's Life of Brian, not so my mom).
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