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Post by WarrenPeace on Nov 13, 2017 18:38:29 GMT
As frustrating it is at times being a Packers fan, somewhere in there we know that we have a better chance than most. How or why do fans stay loyal to their Cubs and Browns? Since I'm not cheering on a losing team I don't understand.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2017 18:41:52 GMT
As frustrating it is at times being a Packers fan, somewhere in there we know that we have a better chance than most. How or why do fans stay loyal to their Cubs and Browns? Since I'm not cheering on a losing team I don't understand. Take the Sixers and 'The Process'. If you see a long term plan and actually believe in it - it's easy to stay faithful. But despite that..... If you grew up in a particular area - those teams are in your blood - you cheer them on win or lose. They become a part of you if you grew up as a kid cheering them on.
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Post by WarrenPeace on Nov 13, 2017 18:45:04 GMT
As frustrating it is at times being a Packers fan, somewhere in there we know that we have a better chance than most. How or why do fans stay loyal to their Cubs and Browns? Since I'm not cheering on a losing team I don't understand. Take the Sixers and 'The Process'. If you see a long term plan and actually believe in it - it's easy to stay faithful. But despite that..... If you grew up in a particular area - those teams are in your blood - you cheer them on win or lose. They become a part of you if you grew up as a kid cheering them on. Yeah, I guess your right that a lot of it does have to do with conditioning. And I also wonder how a player feels when he goes to a losing team. What is going through his mind when he gets drafted by the Browns? He probably doesn't care as long as he is getting paid and a chance to play for anyone. Get good with them and he can always leave if winning teams make an offer.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2017 18:49:04 GMT
Take the Sixers and 'The Process'. If you see a long term plan and actually believe in it - it's easy to stay faithful. But despite that..... If you grew up in a particular area - those teams are in your blood - you cheer them on win or lose. They become a part of you if you grew up as a kid cheering them on. Yeah, I guess your right that a lot of it does have to do with conditioning. And I also wonder how a player feels when he goes to a losing team. What is going through his mind when he gets drafted by the Browns? He probably doesn't care as long as he is getting paid and a chance to play for anyone. Get good with them and he can always leave if winning teams make an offer. i look it as they're privileged and lucky to play a kids sport and make a mint. if they don't like their situation - leave in free agency when it comes up. other than that - if they're not happy - get a 9 to 5 job like 99.9% of schmoes out there .....
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Post by marsexplorer on Nov 13, 2017 21:25:26 GMT
Yeah, I guess your right that a lot of it does have to do with conditioning. And I also wonder how a player feels when he goes to a losing team. What is going through his mind when he gets drafted by the Browns? He probably doesn't care as long as he is getting paid and a chance to play for anyone. Get good with them and he can always leave if winning teams make an offer. I have heard talk that if the Browns draft Sam Darnold he will refuse to sign ala Peyton Manning.
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Post by ctown28 on Nov 13, 2017 21:31:29 GMT
As a Browns fan I can say it’s not easy. I do remember a time when we had success and went to 3 AFC Championship games. But that’s a distant memory.
Back then, I’d let it ruin my week when the team lost, now I just shrug it off and go about my normal business. It’s all in the way you look at it. If my biggest problem in life is that my football team sucks, I’m doing pretty good in life.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2017 23:44:26 GMT
I don't know how Browns, Bills or Pirates (during 20 losing seasons in a row) fans explain it to their kids. How do you keep the kid interested in rooting for a bunch of habitual losers?
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Post by President Ackbar™ on Nov 13, 2017 23:53:06 GMT
Yeah, I guess your right that a lot of it does have to do with conditioning. And I also wonder how a player feels when he goes to a losing team. What is going through his mind when he gets drafted by the Browns? He probably doesn't care as long as he is getting paid and a chance to play for anyone. Get good with them and he can always leave if winning teams make an offer. I have heard talk that if the Browns draft Sam Darnold he will refuse to sign ala Peyton Manning. Did Peyton do that? I honestly don't remember. I do remember the John Elway and Eli Manning things.
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Post by flyerzzrul on Nov 13, 2017 23:53:58 GMT
As a Browns fan I can say it’s not easy. I do remember a time when we had success and went to 3 AFC Championship games. But that’s a distant memory. Back then, I’d let it ruin my week when the team lost, now I just shrug it off and go about my normal business. It’s all in the way you look at it. If my biggest problem in life is that my football team sucks, I’m doing pretty good in life. That's entirely Art Modell's fault because those Browns are now the Ravens. Just think what could have been!
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Post by Terrapin Station on Nov 14, 2017 0:12:55 GMT
If you grew up in a particular area - those teams are in your blood - you cheer them on win or lose. This. I'm a fan of the Miami teams because I grew up in Miami/South Florida and I still have a lot of ties there even though I'm not living there right now. It's frustrating when my teams stink long-term--and they've all been kind of stinking, although we basically "bought" a handful of championships in the last 25 years (3 for the Heat, 2 for the Marlins), but win or lose--and unfortunately right now, it's hard to see how any of them are not going to be losing overall in the near future, it's "in my blood." One thing you do is focus on "small victories"--things that your team is doing right, even though they're losing games. That helps mitigate the pain. An even better illustration of that is that I'm also a fan of the Cleveland teams--I root for them after the Miami teams. That's because although I was raised in Miami/South Florida, I was born in Cleveland and lived there my first few years, and I still have a lot of family ties there, too. (Also, I was in a weird situation as a sports fan in that my town (Miami) only had an NFL team until I was in my later 20s (when we finally got an NBA team and then early 30s (when we finally got an MLB and NHL team). That gave me more allegiance to the Cleveland teams (and left me in the wilderness when it came to hockey, since Cleveland has no NHL team), but back then, I couldn't watch that many Browns/Cavaliers/Indians games--we didn't have every game of every team available on TV, so it wasn't at all difficult for me to latch on to the new Miami teams once they arrived. I love the Miami teams just like if they'd been around since I was a little kid, but that wasn't the situation, so I don't have the same exclusive attitude towards them that I might have otherwise had.) So take the Browns. They've been awful for a long time. This is the second year in a row where they can't win a game. (Well, they won one at the end of last season finally.) So, re "small victories," if the Browns seem like they're putting in a solid effort/they're putting up the best fight they can, and especially if they're scoring some points and executing some nice plays, I feel like that's a victory of sorts--"We didn't lose too badly; we actually had a chance!" That was the case with the Browns/Lions game yesterday for example. The Browns kept stepping up, there were a couple points--even late in the game--when it was tied, and at one point they actually had a lead. They fell apart at the end and the Lions wound up winning by two touchdowns, but they actually had a chance for most of the game. That keeps a glimmer of hope alive that they could start getting better and winning some games. You wind up rooting for baby steps towards improvement more than you worry about losing. In a way it's similar to enjoying hockey games overall. In hockey there's normally very little scoring--it's just like soccer in that. So to really get into the games, you can't just focus on scoring--you'd just be frustrated most of the time, even if your team winds up winning. They might win 1-0 late in the game, or even just via a shootout, and so there's no scoring until you've sat through two and a half or three hours of play. So what you do is focus on how your team is doing re puck movement/handling, scoring chances/shots on goal, etc. That stuff isn't directly winning the game, but it's the sort of stuff you need to do well to win a lot of games. So if your team is doing that stuff well, you don't feel so bad, even if you wind up losing. You feel like you've got a chance in the future.
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Post by marco26 on Nov 14, 2017 0:24:45 GMT
How do you keep the kid interested in rooting for a bunch of habitual losers? When I was a kid, the Giants were at their atrocious worst. Something like 15 years in a row without making the playoffs. 2-12 seasons, 3-13 seasons. That's what I grew up on. And it really didn't matter to me. That's what my team was, I was a Giants fan (because of family) so to me winning or losing didn't matter. That's my team. Sounds weird, but it's the way it was. The team I was following as a kid was one of the worst in the NFL for nearly two straight decades and it really didn't matter. We had no thoughts of winning. I just watched my team play. I enjoyed that. And, yes, when the Parcells era began and we became relevant, it was more fun. But I am glad I grew up with them as losers. It made the winning so much more gratifying. We suck bad this year...I still watch and enjoy my Sunday games. I grew up like that so I know no other way. Would suck to be a Bulls fan who was a kid when Jordan was doing his thing. They grew up winning. How can they handle being irrelevant? I grew up with Giants losing so when we win it's great, when we lose, I was conditioned for that.
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Post by marco26 on Nov 14, 2017 0:27:08 GMT
will refuse to sign ala Peyton Manning. What the fuck are you blabbing about?
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Post by TheGoodMan19 on Nov 14, 2017 0:48:41 GMT
You could root for a winner every year. That's easy. Look at me, I'm an Astros fan. Last year, I was a Cubs fan!
And there's a certain amount of regional loyalty. Anyone around here (western New York) who isn't a Bills fan is look on as an outsider ("when did you move here?"). Especially with the Bills because we are painfully aware that there are much larger cities who don't have an NFL franchise. Matter of support (hee hee, we are all athletic supporters!). It must be the same for fans on English football teams who can never, ever hope to win a title. Burnley, Huddersfield Town etc. Leicester City was a once in a billion event. Won't happen again.
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Post by TheGoodMan19 on Nov 14, 2017 0:56:30 GMT
Yeah, I guess your right that a lot of it does have to do with conditioning. And I also wonder how a player feels when he goes to a losing team. What is going through his mind when he gets drafted by the Browns? He probably doesn't care as long as he is getting paid and a chance to play for anyone. Get good with them and he can always leave if winning teams make an offer. I have heard talk that if the Browns draft Sam Darnold he will refuse to sign ala Peyton Manning. Darnold won't pull a John Elway (I'm sure you meant Elway) but he could go back to USC for another year. I don't see another Elway-esque antic. He doesn't have the leverage other had back in the day. CFL isn't an option, no USFL and as far as I know Darnold doesn't play baseball. Going back is a huge gamble. Ask Chad Kelly. And it wouldn't be a stretch to see the Browns drafting #1 in 2019
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Post by weststigersbob on Nov 14, 2017 0:58:28 GMT
The perennial hope that despite so many losing seasons, the upcoming one will be better.
Look at Leicester and their fans. Or the Cubs. You just never know.....
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Post by flasuss on Nov 14, 2017 1:12:02 GMT
Outside the US, it's not that much of a problem in many cases in football and most sports because:
A- There's more than one competition to play; B- There's often the threat of relegation, so just staying in the same place can be a victory in some cases.
But yeah, in the US' system there doesn't seem to have that much of a point.
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Post by TheGoodMan19 on Nov 14, 2017 1:22:32 GMT
Outside the US, it's not that much of a problem in many cases in football and most sports because: A- There's more than one competition to play; B- There's often the threat of relegation, so just staying in the same place can be a victory in some cases. But yeah, in the US' system there doesn't seem to have that much of a point. Is the "US System", team have a possibility of winning the championship someday. New England patriots were slightly above average, two Super Bowl losses before Tom Brady. The Kansas City Royals suffered 30 years of losing from 1985 - 2014. Both would be a Leeds or a Burnley in England. There's no promotion/relegation or FA cup here, but you could never sell a team to fans where the best you can hope for it to stay at the top rung.
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Post by flasuss on Nov 14, 2017 1:55:54 GMT
Outside the US, it's not that much of a problem in many cases in football and most sports because: A- There's more than one competition to play; B- There's often the threat of relegation, so just staying in the same place can be a victory in some cases. But yeah, in the US' system there doesn't seem to have that much of a point. Is the "US System", team have a possibility of winning the championship someday. New England patriots were slightly above average, two Super Bowl losses before Tom Brady. The Kansas City Royals suffered 30 years of losing from 1985 - 2014. Both would be a Leeds or a Burnley in England. There's no promotion/relegation or FA cup here, but you could never sell a team to fans where the best you can hope for it to stay at the top rung. But here's the thing- you can, depending on a number of factors. I'm going to talk about football specifically, since the amount of support for other sports (and which ones) varies immensely from country to country. Anyway, in the US, basically you're supposed to follow a team for a 4-6 months season, in which you often has no realistic chance of doing much, and then forget about it for half a year until starts again, and follow other sports in the mean time. It's a more superficial engagement with the club, that can always up and move 1000 miles away without warning. However, a football club's season lasts much longer, and you have different goals on the way; say you follow a mid-size club in the Premier League, like, for example, West Brom. Your main goal will be survival in the Premier League, yes, but you also have the League and FA Cup where most PL clubs have a chance of going far and even winning, getting good results against big teams and your regional rivals, and hopefully play some entertaining football while on the way (not that can ever happen with Tony Pullis in charge, though). Also, clubs can improve gradually over time and from time to time have different goals- Southampton 5 years ago was a club just lucky to be in the PL while now they make the top 10 every year, qualify regularly for Europe, challenge for the cups, and will try to move to the next level. Of course, in the span of a single season, if you get the right manager and players and some luck, you can reach new levels, like Watford this year and Leicester in 2016. For the even smaller clubs, the goal is to keep progressing steadily until you reach the top, which is hard, but not impossible: see Guy Roux staying in Auxerre for 40 years and taking it from an amateur side to French champions, or Chapecoense going from a provincial side lucky to even make to the 4th division to 8th in the Brazilian league and in the final of a continental competition before the plane crash happened. And most importantly, the clubs are a lot more connected to the community, and a vital part of it, to the point that sometimes a club simply playing in a different side of the city can create problems. You're not going to have Barcelona moving to Bilbao or Juventus going to Milan because the owner found a better deal.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Nov 14, 2017 13:09:56 GMT
You talk about the good old days (if there ever were any) and you take pride in the little things. I remember laughing my ass off in the early 90s when Scott Zolak was marching the Pats down the field on a drive, making guns in the air with his index fingers after a few completed passes. When you're that bad, you celebrate the little things. Pre-2004, Red Sox fans didn't have much to celebrate. We were elated when 'Jurassic' Carl Everett singled with two outs and two strikes in the 9th to break up Mussina's perfect game bid. The Yankees were the three time defending champs, and the Red Sox were, well, the Red Sox. But it was great. "We're still irrelevant but hey, you didn't have a perfect game!"
I remember when the Celtics beat the defending Champion Bulls on opening night (Halloween no less!) in 1997. We knew it wouldn't last but damn did it feel good. The Rick Pitino era was off to a roaring start and it was all downhill from there.
And in the end, you hope. You hope the day will come when your faith will be rewarded. And winning feels that much better once you've gone through all the losing.
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Post by twothousandonemark on Nov 14, 2017 19:03:10 GMT
As frustrating it is at times being a Packers fan, somewhere in there we know that we have a better chance than most. How or why do fans stay loyal to their Cubs and Browns? Since I'm not cheering on a losing team I don't understand. Well, my first love was the Maple Leafs, & during those 1980's they were basically a Saturday morning cartoon show on ice. I've homegrown loyalty & also a sense that enduring the worst of times can't get any worse? lols My Patriots fandom began with Parcells, & even then they didn't do a lot. AFC title because the Jaguars punched above their heads. Parcells walked away as soon as that SB was over so it was back to the drawing board. To be fair, the Blue Jays I've also had my life, & they've been arguably one of the finer organizations in all sports, win or lose. There are times like when the Raptors didn't even know how to hire the right coach, either going all in offence (Wilkens) or grind it all down defense (O'Neill). It's basically taken until Dwayne Casey to finally land a good coach who knew what he was doing.
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