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Post by ArArArchStanton on Nov 16, 2017 19:11:31 GMT
It had the goodwill of a social agenda buzz that plays better in America than elsewhere. That's why the American numbers were up. And that's why it's not a sign that the foreign numbers were somehow behind. The foreign number is really where the film was at, so it's basically a 700 type of film, which is still great. It just gets a little inflated in the states. I don’t see how starring a woman really helped its numbers. That didn’t help the Ghostbusters reboot, or Ghost in the Shell starring a major actress like Scarlett Johansson. Really you didn't hear all the buzz? You didn't see all the additional little girls and groups of young women in the theaters, who don't normally show up to comic book films? I can't tell you how many 8 year old girls I saw at my showing but it was a lot. Again my wife went three times with groups of female teachers.
Why it got that buzz and Ghost in the Shell didn't, I couldn't tell you, but it did.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Nov 16, 2017 19:16:32 GMT
I don’t see how starring a woman really helped its numbers. That didn’t help the Ghostbusters reboot, or Ghost in the Shell starring a major actress like Scarlett Johansson. Really you didn't hear all the buzz? You didn't see all the additional little girls and groups of young women in the theaters, who don't normally show up to comic book films? I can't tell you how many 8 year old girls I saw at my showing but it was a lot. Again my wife went three times with groups of female teachers.
Why it got that buzz and Ghost in the Shell didn't, I couldn't tell you, but it did.
It got buzz because it was considered a good movie. Prior to its release, it actually had less buzz going for it than any of the previous DCEU (or whatever we’re supposed to call it) movies. The movie didn’t survive because it starred a woman, it survived because people liked it.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Nov 16, 2017 19:23:37 GMT
Really you didn't hear all the buzz? You didn't see all the additional little girls and groups of young women in the theaters, who don't normally show up to comic book films? I can't tell you how many 8 year old girls I saw at my showing but it was a lot. Again my wife went three times with groups of female teachers.
Why it got that buzz and Ghost in the Shell didn't, I couldn't tell you, but it did.
It got buzz because it was considered a good movie. Prior to its release, it actually had less buzz going for it than any of the previous DCEU (or whatever we’re supposed to call it) movies. The movie didn’t survive because it starred a woman, it survived because people liked it. Yes, and it got extra business by getting a bunch of 8 year old girls in the theater who don't go to comic book movies otherwise.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Nov 16, 2017 19:26:26 GMT
It got buzz because it was considered a good movie. Prior to its release, it actually had less buzz going for it than any of the previous DCEU (or whatever we’re supposed to call it) movies. The movie didn’t survive because it starred a woman, it survived because people liked it. Yes, and it got extra business by getting a bunch of 8 year old girls in the theater who don't go to comic book movies otherwise. If the movie were bad, it wouldn’t have been able to attract the kind of audience you’re referring to.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Nov 16, 2017 19:27:04 GMT
It got buzz because it was considered a good movie. Prior to its release, it actually had less buzz going for it than any of the previous DCEU (or whatever we’re supposed to call it) movies. The movie didn’t survive because it starred a woman, it survived because people liked it. Yes, and it got extra business by getting a bunch of 8 year old girls in the theater who don't go to comic book movies otherwise. I don't understand where this argument is going. WW made money because it appealed to a certain demographic more than other films, and that's a bad thing?
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Nov 16, 2017 19:28:15 GMT
Yes, and it got extra business by getting a bunch of 8 year old girls in the theater who don't go to comic book movies otherwise. If the movie were bad, it wouldn’t have been able to attract the kind of audience you’re referring to. I never said it was bad. What are you talking about?
It's actually a good movie. I'm just saying it got extra business that most similar movies don't and it's probably slightly overrated, but not much.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Nov 16, 2017 19:30:01 GMT
Yes, and it got extra business by getting a bunch of 8 year old girls in the theater who don't go to comic book movies otherwise. I don't understand where this argument is going. WW made money because it appealed to a certain demographic more than other films, and that's a bad thing? No I didn't say it was a bad thing. It earned what it got.
I'm just saying if you're going to compare it to other genre films, you have to accept that it got more box office than films of equal quality.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Nov 16, 2017 19:31:18 GMT
If the movie were bad, it wouldn’t have been able to attract the kind of audience you’re referring to. I never said it was bad. What are you talking about?
It's actually a good movie. I'm just saying it got extra business that most similar movies don't and it's probably slightly overrated, but not much.
My point was that the movie got by primarily because it was considered good, and that it was at a disadvantage compared to the 3 MCU movies released this year. Simply starring a woman doesn’t compare to being part of a massively successful franchise that people overseas in particular love.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Nov 16, 2017 19:36:35 GMT
I never said it was bad. What are you talking about?
It's actually a good movie. I'm just saying it got extra business that most similar movies don't and it's probably slightly overrated, but not much.
My point was that the movie got by primarily because it was considered good, and that it was at a disadvantage compared to the 3 MCU movies released this year. Simply starring a woman doesn’t compare to being part of a massively successful franchise that people overseas in particular love. I agree that it got by because it was good. I've never said otherwise. I just said it got extra because it appealed to a demographic most comic films don't.
Is the disadvantage you're referring to that DC has sucked? I agree.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Nov 16, 2017 19:38:36 GMT
My point was that the movie got by primarily because it was considered good, and that it was at a disadvantage compared to the 3 MCU movies released this year. Simply starring a woman doesn’t compare to being part of a massively successful franchise that people overseas in particular love. Is the disadvantage you're referring to that DC has sucked? I agree.
That’s a blunt way of putting it, but the DCEU certainly didn’t have (and still doesn’t have) the strong reputation that the MCU has had over the past 9 years.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Nov 16, 2017 19:40:57 GMT
Is the disadvantage you're referring to that DC has sucked? I agree.
That’s a blunt way of putting it, but the DCEU certainly didn’t have (and still doesn’t have) the strong reputation that the MCU has had over the past 9 years. I agree, and the MCU has earned their strong reputation while DC has more or less acted like this is the early 2000's era where companies regularly put out half baked shitty comic book films.
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Post by formersamhmd on Nov 16, 2017 19:48:45 GMT
It had the goodwill of a social agenda buzz that plays better in America than elsewhere. That's why the American numbers were up. And that's why it's not a sign that the foreign numbers were somehow behind. The foreign number is really where the film was at, so it's basically a 700 type of film, which is still great. It just gets a little inflated in the states. I don’t see how starring a woman really helped its numbers. That didn’t help the Ghostbusters reboot, or Ghost in the Shell starring a major actress like Scarlett Johansson. The Ghostbusters reboot wasn't helped because the fans disliked the idea and just wanted the old Male Actors back and saw it as some political correctness thing hijacking their franchise. Plus the comments by Feig and Amy Pascal didn't help.
GitS got backlash for casting a white Woman in a Japanese role. So political reasons for it not doing well.
WW didn't have those obstacles.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Nov 16, 2017 19:52:53 GMT
I don’t see how starring a woman really helped its numbers. That didn’t help the Ghostbusters reboot, or Ghost in the Shell starring a major actress like Scarlett Johansson. The Ghostbusters reboot wasn't helped because the fans disliked the idea and just wanted the old Male Actors back and saw it as some political correctness thing hijacking their franchise. Plus the comments by Feig and Amy Pascal didn't help.
GitS got backlash for casting a white Woman in a Japanese role. So political reasons for it not doing well.
WW didn't have those obstacles.
While you’re right about the Ghostbusters reboot being hit by negative publicity from the moment it was announced, GitS was hurt by the fact that the critics and audience just didn’t like it. People would’ve overlooked the casting of a white woman in an Asian role if the movie was good. They did for Doctor Strange.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Nov 16, 2017 19:55:00 GMT
I don't understand where this argument is going. WW made money because it appealed to a certain demographic more than other films, and that's a bad thing? No I didn't say it was a bad thing. It earned what it got.
I'm just saying if you're going to compare it to other genre films, you have to accept that it got more box office than films of equal quality.
I think yours is a better argument for critical reception than for BO revenue. Pointing out that WW made money because it appealed to a specific audience is neither here nor there. There was an audience for it, so it made money. Case closed. The critical reception is a bit more dubious from my perspective. WW was a fun movie; it was also a paint by numbers rehash of Captain America: The First Avenger. The major difference being its lead character is a female, a group historically underrepresented in the genre (and let's be honest, in action films in general). Did all that positive buzz inflate the BO take? A little bit, sure. But WW kept on rolling, week after week. That comes from word of mouth, not industry hype. People enjoyed the film. I certainly did; I saw it twice in theaters. As I already mentioned, its biggest flaw is being a knockoff of CA:TFA. As a whole, it's a solid picture. Performances, cinematography, music, story (well, I'll admit the film's climax is incredibly weak) were all fantastic. People weren't going to see it in its sixth week of release to support some feminist agenda, those people would've been there opening week. Circling back to your BO argument, I personally won't base any argument on a film's quality on BO gains. Transformers movies make money (or at least they did) and they're terrible in my opinion. Iron Man 3 is regarded as one of the lesser offerings from Marvel (which I disagree with, I love that flick) yet it made an enormous amount of money. In fact, to the other guy's point, IM3 for example made a ton of goodwill money off of the Avengers, whereas WW had to follow an absolute stinker like BvS. If anything, WW was a refreshing change for WB/DC. They finally made a movie everyone can enjoy. Those 8 year old girls you're talking about kept going to see it because the woman was a lead in a good movie; not simply because the woman was a lead.
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Post by formersamhmd on Nov 16, 2017 20:04:17 GMT
The Ghostbusters reboot wasn't helped because the fans disliked the idea and just wanted the old Male Actors back and saw it as some political correctness thing hijacking their franchise. Plus the comments by Feig and Amy Pascal didn't help.
GitS got backlash for casting a white Woman in a Japanese role. So political reasons for it not doing well.
WW didn't have those obstacles.
While you’re right about the Ghostbusters reboot being hit by negative publicity from the moment it was announced, GitS was hurt by the fact that the critics and audience just didn’t like it. People would’ve overlooked the casting of a white woman in an Asian role if the movie was good. They did for Doctor Strange. It worked for Dr Strange because the place was shown to very much NOT be Asian Dominated but multicultural, and because Magic isn't something exclusively Asian.
Look at how Iron Fist turned out.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Nov 16, 2017 20:05:04 GMT
While you’re right about the Ghostbusters reboot being hit by negative publicity from the moment it was announced, GitS was hurt by the fact that the critics and audience just didn’t like it. People would’ve overlooked the casting of a white woman in an Asian role if the movie was good. They did for Doctor Strange. It worked for Dr Strange because the place was shown to very much NOT be Asian Dominated but multicultural, and because Magic isn't something exclusively Asian.
Look at how Iron Fist turned out.
IF didn’t get the reviews it did because of a white lead. Just saying.
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Post by formersamhmd on Nov 16, 2017 20:06:00 GMT
It worked for Dr Strange because the place was shown to very much NOT be Asian Dominated but multicultural, and because Magic isn't something exclusively Asian.
Look at how Iron Fist turned out.
IF didn’t get the reviews it did because of a white lead. Just saying. It did, at least in part. That show was always going to be disliked for Political Reasons.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Nov 16, 2017 20:11:39 GMT
While you’re right about the Ghostbusters reboot being hit by negative publicity from the moment it was announced, GitS was hurt by the fact that the critics and audience just didn’t like it. People would’ve overlooked the casting of a white woman in an Asian role if the movie was good. They did for Doctor Strange. It worked for Dr Strange because the place was shown to very much NOT be Asian Dominated but multicultural, and because Magic isn't something exclusively Asian.
Look at how Iron Fist turned out.
Iron Fist is easily the worst Marvel Netflix show and the worst part about it is the title character! You don't need a political agenda to dislike a poorly written, rushed production with no sense of itself. The 'outsider' angle is part of the charm of the comic character for me, I was fine with them keeping him Caucasian. But he was an obnoxious brat on the show. I enjoyed the show strictly for the family dynamic with the Meachums, they were the most compelling characters even if their arcs didn't always make sense either. Iron Fist failed because it was a mess, not because the central character isn't Asian.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Nov 16, 2017 20:21:06 GMT
It worked for Dr Strange because the place was shown to very much NOT be Asian Dominated but multicultural, and because Magic isn't something exclusively Asian.
Look at how Iron Fist turned out.
Iron Fist is easily the worst Marvel Netflix show and the worst part about it is the title character! You don't need a political agenda to dislike a poorly written, rushed production with no sense of itself. The 'outsider' angle is part of the charm of the comic character for me, I was fine with them keeping him Caucasian. But he was an obnoxious brat on the show. I enjoyed the show strictly for the family dynamic with the Meachums, they were the most compelling characters even if their arcs didn't always make sense either. Iron Fist failed because it was a mess, not because the central character isn't Asian. He was supposed to be an obnoxious brat though, that's going to be his character arc is overcoming that.
The show wasn't the greatest, I fully admit that, but regarding his character, I actually see what they're going for. He's deeply troubled over losing his family and he's completely naïve to American culture. I mean the guy isn't going to be normal.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Nov 16, 2017 20:28:17 GMT
Iron Fist is easily the worst Marvel Netflix show and the worst part about it is the title character! You don't need a political agenda to dislike a poorly written, rushed production with no sense of itself. The 'outsider' angle is part of the charm of the comic character for me, I was fine with them keeping him Caucasian. But he was an obnoxious brat on the show. I enjoyed the show strictly for the family dynamic with the Meachums, they were the most compelling characters even if their arcs didn't always make sense either. Iron Fist failed because it was a mess, not because the central character isn't Asian. He was supposed to be an obnoxious brat though, that's going to be his character arc is overcoming that.
The show wasn't the greatest, I fully admit that, but regarding his character, I actually see what they're going for. He's deeply troubled over losing his family and he's completely naïve to American culture. I mean the guy isn't going to be normal.
They aren't going for anything. It's just poor writing. He was all over the place from episode to episode, Finn Jones's performance suffered because he couldn't make heads or tails of that character. Someone who trained for years with monks shouldn't be an obnoxious brat. Fish out of water, sure. Total flake, ok. Not a petulant brat.
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