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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Nov 16, 2017 16:18:19 GMT
this or is it just an 'ideal' projection to make you buy whatever product so you can have one of these picture-perfect holiday gatherings?
I find myself depressed during the holiday season; I never had those kinds of holidays, even when I was a kid and a believer. So this isn't just about "theists have great holidays and atheists don't."
Does anyone have these picture-perfect holiday gatherings, where families gather and everyone is happy? Do you look forward to this time of year, feel that it is a season of joy and delight in seeing decorations and anticipate making (or eating) wonderfully prepared food?
My late husband was an atheist, yet he reveled in the holidays because it was a season of giving (which he did a lot of). He, too, was from a dysfunctional family who didn't celebrate anything. Sometimes their only decent meal was either Thanksgiving or Christmas dinners provided by the Salvation Army.
Honestly, the years I had with him were the only ones that I really had a sense of 'happy holidays', and when he died, nine days before Christmas, that concept died with him, for me.
Now it's just torture. What few family members I have are all seriously theist and their holiday gatherings center on the religious aspect. I have a friend, another atheist, whose family is made up of a bunch of eclectic thinkers and characters; a holiday spent with them is fun, but no different than any gathering with them - they are just a fun and interesting group, period. And because of my family obligations, I can't spend the holidays with them. So I count down the days to when it's NOT holiday overload in commercials and outside Christmas decorations everywhere you look.
Anyone else feel this way?
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Post by Aj_June on Nov 16, 2017 17:07:57 GMT
Very few people may experience picture-perfect holiday gatherings. Generally, as the number of family members increase so do conflicts. It would be especially true (conflicts) if some members of your family adhere to very devout religious beliefs. That said, if beliefs among members of family are not different from each other, then you can have a good holiday time.
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Nov 16, 2017 17:15:35 GMT
Very few people may experience picture-perfect holiday gatherings. Generally, as the number of family members increase so do conflicts. It would be especially true (conflicts) if some members of your family adhere to very devout religious beliefs. That said, if beliefs among members of family are not different from each other, then you can have a good holiday time. From reading your past posts about your Hindu family, you seem to, somehow, enjoy the family gathering aspect yet not let your non-religious views be a minus. How do you do that? |
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Post by Aj_June on Nov 16, 2017 17:23:59 GMT
Very few people may experience picture-perfect holiday gatherings. Generally, as the number of family members increase so do conflicts. It would be especially true (conflicts) if some members of your family adhere to very devout religious beliefs. That said, if beliefs among members of family are not different from each other, then you can have a good holiday time. From reading your past posts about your Hindu family, you seem to, somehow, enjoy the family gathering aspect yet not let your non-religious views be a minus. How do you do that? My parents never asked me to be religious. As a matter of fact most of the upper middle class Hindu families do not take religion very seriously. For example, my mother never asked me to make any prayers or worship God when at home. She never expected me to visit temples. All they expect me is that if they conduct any religious ceremony on any special day of the year (generally not more two times a year) I should just participate in the event for the namesake for just 2 minutes. Apart from that they never bothered me. My sister is just as non-religious as I am. But there can be Hindu families who are pretty conservatives and want many things from their kids. Thankfully, my family was not like that. |
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Nov 16, 2017 17:24:49 GMT
I don;t want those picture perfect holidays.
I want a great life so I work on that as much as possible.
I do admit that I love my family and friends and love to hang out with them at any opportunity which is often around the holidays. That has more to do with work schedules than a holiday spirit though.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2017 17:29:34 GMT
Everything that you see in 'family' movies and also advertisements is an idealistic projection of the hopes and dreams of ordinary people. If people actually lived lives like in the movies, then the movies wouldn't need to exist because they would just be rather mundane depictions of normal everyday life.
Throughout much of my life, I've kind of relied on TV and the movies as an emotional crutch to help me get through lonely times and fill a void in my life. I used to believe that it would be possible for me to have a life which reflected the rich and joyous lives depicted on TV, but that I was just born in the wrong place, or whatever. Then I became disenchanted when nobody and nothing could ever live up to the world that was depicted on the TV.
Now, I find solace in the realisation that it's a universal truth that life is mostly filled with mundanity - and that's if you're lucky enough not to be suffering terribly due to poverty, illness, exploitation or disability. The idealistic TV adverts and family movies reflect what most people want to believe that their own lives are actually like, or will be like.
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Post by cupcakes on Nov 16, 2017 17:30:10 GMT
tpfkar Pick your xmas input however you can; blow off the rest. All kinds of things bring back both good and bad vibes and memories. Some old songs can physically hurt a little bit. As for your personal associations, don't see 'em if you don't like 'em. If you do, just be loving and also tease their silly. Or not. Just focus on enjoying yourself as you navigate whatever.
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Nov 16, 2017 17:38:21 GMT
Everything that you see in 'family' movies and also advertisements is an idealistic projection of the hopes and dreams of ordinary people. If people actually lived lives like in the movies, then the movies wouldn't need to exist because they would just be rather mundane depictions of normal everyday life. Throughout much of my life, I've kind of relied on TV and the movies as an emotional crutch to help me get through lonely times and fill a void in my life. I used to believe that it would be possible for me to have a life which reflected the rich and joyous lives depicted on TV, but that I was just born in the wrong place, or whatever. Then I became disenchanted when nobody and nothing could ever live up to the world that was depicted on the TV. Now, I find solace in the realisation that it's a universal truth that life is mostly filled with mundanity - and that's if you're lucky enough not to be suffering terribly due to poverty, illness, exploitation or disability. The idealistic TV adverts and family movies reflect what most people want to believe that their own lives are actually like, or will be like. Thanks, mic, I will try to find solace in that, too. |
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Nov 16, 2017 17:42:22 GMT
Everything that you see in 'family' movies and also advertisements is an idealistic projection of the hopes and dreams of ordinary people. If people actually lived lives like in the movies, then the movies wouldn't need to exist because they would just be rather mundane depictions of normal everyday life. Throughout much of my life, I've kind of relied on TV and the movies as an emotional crutch to help me get through lonely times and fill a void in my life. I used to believe that it would be possible for me to have a life which reflected the rich and joyous lives depicted on TV, but that I was just born in the wrong place, or whatever. Then I became disenchanted when nobody and nothing could ever live up to the world that was depicted on the TV. Now, I find solace in the realisation that it's a universal truth that life is mostly filled with mundanity - and that's if you're lucky enough not to be suffering terribly due to poverty, illness, exploitation or disability. The idealistic TV adverts and family movies reflect what most people want to believe that their own lives are actually like, or will be like. Honestly, I've never seen a movie or TV show that idealizes the holiday completely. It almost always works against the stereotype to show how screwed up any particular family is and maybe at the end they come to together to realize how awesome any given holiday is. Commercials are too slight to notice. It's always idealized based on the product anyway regardless of holiday time. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2017 17:54:02 GMT
Everything that you see in 'family' movies and also advertisements is an idealistic projection of the hopes and dreams of ordinary people. If people actually lived lives like in the movies, then the movies wouldn't need to exist because they would just be rather mundane depictions of normal everyday life. Throughout much of my life, I've kind of relied on TV and the movies as an emotional crutch to help me get through lonely times and fill a void in my life. I used to believe that it would be possible for me to have a life which reflected the rich and joyous lives depicted on TV, but that I was just born in the wrong place, or whatever. Then I became disenchanted when nobody and nothing could ever live up to the world that was depicted on the TV. Now, I find solace in the realisation that it's a universal truth that life is mostly filled with mundanity - and that's if you're lucky enough not to be suffering terribly due to poverty, illness, exploitation or disability. The idealistic TV adverts and family movies reflect what most people want to believe that their own lives are actually like, or will be like. Honestly, I've never seen a movie or TV show that idealizes the holiday completely. It almost always works against the stereotype to show how screwed up any particular family is and maybe at the end they come to together to realize how awesome any given holiday is. Commercials are too slight to notice. It's always idealized based on the product anyway regardless of holiday time. I think that from 1998 onwards (basically since the Internet age), the tone of Christmas movies (and 'family cinema' and TV) shifted to a somewhat more cynical and jaded outlook, much to my dismay at the time. The 'dysfunctional family' meme has been around for a lot longer than this, but usually the story resolves itself into an addictively unalloyed schmaltzy 'happily ever after' heartwarming outcome. Since 1998, film and TV makers have been more inclined to temper that heartwarming message with a bit of jaded realism. Modern adverts are just idiotic, but do tend to present the idealistic vision of suburban family life, all revolving around the product being advertised. |
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Post by chasallnut on Nov 17, 2017 9:11:50 GMT
this or is it just an 'ideal' projection to make you buy whatever product so you can have one of these picture-perfect holiday gatherings? I find myself depressed during the holiday season; I never had those kinds of holidays, even when I was a kid and a believer. So this isn't just about "theists have great holidays and atheists don't." Does anyone have these picture-perfect holiday gatherings, where families gather and everyone is happy? Do you look forward to this time of year, feel that it is a season of joy and delight in seeing decorations and anticipate making (or eating) wonderfully prepared food? My late husband was an atheist, yet he reveled in the holidays because it was a season of giving (which he did a lot of). He, too, was from a dysfunctional family who didn't celebrate anything. Sometimes their only decent meal was either Thanksgiving or Christmas dinners provided by the Salvation Army. Honestly, the years I had with him were the only ones that I really had a sense of 'happy holidays', and when he died, nine days before Christmas, that concept died with him, for me. Now it's just torture. What few family members I have are all seriously theist and their holiday gatherings center on the religious aspect. I have a friend, another atheist, whose family is made up of a bunch of eclectic thinkers and characters; a holiday spent with them is fun, but no different than any gathering with them - they are just a fun and interesting group, period. And because of my family obligations, I can't spend the holidays with them. So I count down the days to when it's NOT holiday overload in commercials and outside Christmas decorations everywhere you look. Anyone else feel this way? Sometimes, usually when we are visiting for Christmas and they are family we haven't seen for some time. As a child every Christmas felt like the ones in the movies and my memories are still of nostalgic fondness for those times, but then as a child I didn't have the worries and pressure to make it right as did the adults. I guess those nostalgic views are what these movies thrive on. |
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Post by Eva Yojimbo on Nov 17, 2017 9:41:54 GMT
Everything that you see in 'family' movies and also advertisements is an idealistic projection of the hopes and dreams of ordinary people. If people actually lived lives like in the movies, then the movies wouldn't need to exist because they would just be rather mundane depictions of normal everyday life... Now, I find solace in the realisation that it's a universal truth that life is mostly filled with mundanity... Drama is life with the dull bits cut out. -- Alfred Hitchcock Although there are plenty of films that are great at depicting something closer to everyday, mundane life. Ozu made a career of it. Cafe Lumiere, a film by Hou Hsiao-hsien dedicated to Ozu, is perhaps the epitome of a film about everyday, mundane life. It's great too, but may require being watched with a different mind-set than most films because of how subtle and "zen" it is. |
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Post by Arlon10 on Nov 17, 2017 11:58:48 GMT
this or is it just an 'ideal' projection to make you buy whatever product so you can have one of these picture-perfect holiday gatherings? I find myself depressed during the holiday season; I never had those kinds of holidays, even when I was a kid and a believer. So this isn't just about "theists have great holidays and atheists don't." Does anyone have these picture-perfect holiday gatherings, where families gather and everyone is happy? Do you look forward to this time of year, feel that it is a season of joy and delight in seeing decorations and anticipate making (or eating) wonderfully prepared food? My late husband was an atheist, yet he reveled in the holidays because it was a season of giving (which he did a lot of). He, too, was from a dysfunctional family who didn't celebrate anything. Sometimes their only decent meal was either Thanksgiving or Christmas dinners provided by the Salvation Army. Honestly, the years I had with him were the only ones that I really had a sense of 'happy holidays', and when he died, nine days before Christmas, that concept died with him, for me. Now it's just torture. What few family members I have are all seriously theist and their holiday gatherings center on the religious aspect. I have a friend, another atheist, whose family is made up of a bunch of eclectic thinkers and characters; a holiday spent with them is fun, but no different than any gathering with them - they are just a fun and interesting group, period. And because of my family obligations, I can't spend the holidays with them. So I count down the days to when it's NOT holiday overload in commercials and outside Christmas decorations everywhere you look. Anyone else feel this way? For the most part I see more similarities than differences between "theists and atheists." I think the terms are more about haphazard pigeon holing than profound differences. Where's the light bulb emoticon? If you asked people to divide into groups, atheists on one side of the room and theists on the other, I suspect there would be a lot of milling around and confusion. Concerning the joy of the season, I think the sound of young children laughing, pure and innocent, at no one's expense, just their surprise at the universe, is transcendent. How can you be depressed? How does that not save your soul? One picture of God I have in my mind is a small child laughing at a puppy for all eternity. Why can't you see that god? Of course things can get very depressing though, anytime I suppose. This is probably not the Garden of Eden. When bad things happen one of my defenses is saying "worse things could happen." Lately that is a bit challenging though. Could things really get any worse? So my defense here is if they can't worse then they have to get better. Have a nice set of holidays. |
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Nov 17, 2017 15:15:51 GMT
Everything that you see in 'family' movies and also advertisements is an idealistic projection of the hopes and dreams of ordinary people. If people actually lived lives like in the movies, then the movies wouldn't need to exist because they would just be rather mundane depictions of normal everyday life... Now, I find solace in the realisation that it's a universal truth that life is mostly filled with mundanity... Drama is life with the dull bits cut out. -- Alfred Hitchcock Although there are plenty of films that are great at depicting something closer to everyday, mundane life. Ozu made a career of it. Cafe Lumiere, a film by Hou Hsiao-hsien dedicated to Ozu, is perhaps the epitome of a film about everyday, mundane life. It's great too, but may require being watched with a different mind-set than most films because of how subtle and "zen" it is. I love that Hitchcock quote! I will try to find Café Lumiere; I could use a little "zen" right now. |
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Nov 17, 2017 15:37:31 GMT
this or is it just an 'ideal' projection to make you buy whatever product so you can have one of these picture-perfect holiday gatherings? I find myself depressed during the holiday season; I never had those kinds of holidays, even when I was a kid and a believer. So this isn't just about "theists have great holidays and atheists don't." Does anyone have these picture-perfect holiday gatherings, where families gather and everyone is happy? Do you look forward to this time of year, feel that it is a season of joy and delight in seeing decorations and anticipate making (or eating) wonderfully prepared food? My late husband was an atheist, yet he reveled in the holidays because it was a season of giving (which he did a lot of). He, too, was from a dysfunctional family who didn't celebrate anything. Sometimes their only decent meal was either Thanksgiving or Christmas dinners provided by the Salvation Army. Honestly, the years I had with him were the only ones that I really had a sense of 'happy holidays', and when he died, nine days before Christmas, that concept died with him, for me. Now it's just torture. What few family members I have are all seriously theist and their holiday gatherings center on the religious aspect. I have a friend, another atheist, whose family is made up of a bunch of eclectic thinkers and characters; a holiday spent with them is fun, but no different than any gathering with them - they are just a fun and interesting group, period. And because of my family obligations, I can't spend the holidays with them. So I count down the days to when it's NOT holiday overload in commercials and outside Christmas decorations everywhere you look. Anyone else feel this way? For the most part I see more similarities than differences between "theists and atheists." I think the terms are more about haphazard pigeon holing than profound differences. Where's the light bulb emoticon? If you asked people to divide into groups, atheists on one side of the room and theists on the other, I suspect there would be a lot of milling around and confusion. Concerning the joy of the season, I think the sound of young children laughing, pure and innocent, at no one's expense, just their surprise at the universe, is transcendent. How can you be depressed? How does that not save your soul? One picture of God I have in my mind is a small child laughing at a puppy for all eternity. Why can't you see that god? Of course things can get very depressing though, anytime I suppose. This is probably not the Garden of Eden. When bad things happen one of my defenses is saying "worse things could happen." Lately that is a bit challenging though. Could things really get any worse? So my defense here is if they can't worse then they have to get better. Have a nice set of holidays. Did you even read any of my post after the 'So this isn't just about "theists have great holidays and atheists don't."' part? My husband died nine days before Christmas. My family celebrates things I don't believe in. I can't spend time with a family I do enjoy, because I am with the family that celebrates things I don't believe in. How does a child laughing at a puppy prove that God exists? There are no children laughing, pure and innocent, anywhere near me. Things could be worse? No shit, I had cancer at age 35. And yes, things could be worse, the cancer could come back. "Buck up, Skippy" speeches don't cut it, here. Tinsel and decorated trees just don't fill the holes in my heart. But you have a nice set of holidays, too. |
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Post by Cinemachinery on Nov 17, 2017 17:39:00 GMT
I wouldn't call it "perfect" - I mean, it's nice. But when you're traveling 600+ miles in order to sleep on a lumpy full size with your kid three feet away on a palette on the floor and the fairly-small house is also full of four other couples in addition to the owners... it can be chaotic. Some folks get up at 6am so... that's pretty much everyone waking up at 6am.... some folks go down at 9pm so that's pretty much everyone going down at 9pm.
But it always has nice moments. Add a sparkling tree (colored lights because always colored lights) and a fireplace and I'm pretty happy.
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Nov 17, 2017 18:44:58 GMT
I wouldn't call it "perfect" - I mean, it's nice. But when you're traveling 600+ miles in order to sleep on a lumpy full size with your kid three feet away on a palette on the floor and the fairly-small house is also full of four other couples in addition to the owners... it can be chaotic. Some folks get up at 6am so... that's pretty much everyone waking up at 6am.... some folks go down at 9pm so that's pretty much everyone going down at 9pm. But it always has nice moments. Add a sparkling tree (colored lights because always colored lights) and a fireplace and I'm pretty happy. Hey, Cine, thanks for chiming in! Now, that fireplace image is a great one, and one I do remember from my childhood. I'll add that to my "happy place". Have a good holiday, enjoy those colored lights! |
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Post by cupcakes on Nov 17, 2017 19:05:29 GMT
tpfkar Hey, Cine, thanks for chiming in! Now, that fireplace image is a great one, and one I do remember from my childhood. I'll add that to my "happy place". Have a good holiday, enjoy those colored lights! Love both the Odds and Corner Gas.
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Post by Cinemachinery on Nov 17, 2017 19:06:50 GMT
I wouldn't call it "perfect" - I mean, it's nice. But when you're traveling 600+ miles in order to sleep on a lumpy full size with your kid three feet away on a palette on the floor and the fairly-small house is also full of four other couples in addition to the owners... it can be chaotic. Some folks get up at 6am so... that's pretty much everyone waking up at 6am.... some folks go down at 9pm so that's pretty much everyone going down at 9pm. But it always has nice moments. Add a sparkling tree (colored lights because always colored lights) and a fireplace and I'm pretty happy. Hey, Cine, thanks for chiming in! Now, that fireplace image is a great one, and one I do remember from my childhood. I'll add that to my "happy place". Have a good holiday, enjoy those colored lights! You too! Our Thanksgiving will actually be in my home town, Chattanooga, TN, and our Christmas in hers in Missouri. My family trips are usually less stressful if for no more reason than most of my family lives in the same city and has their own place - hers lives all over and they all pile into one house during the trip. Sardines. Hope you have a good TG and Xmas! |
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Post by Arlon10 on Nov 17, 2017 22:51:07 GMT
!) Did you even read any of my post ... ? 2) My husband died nine days before Christmas. 3) My family celebrates things I don't believe in. I can't spend time with a family I do enjoy, because I am with the family that celebrates things I don't believe in. 4) How does a child laughing at a puppy prove that God exists? There are no children laughing, pure and innocent, anywhere near me. Things could be worse? No shit, I had cancer at age 35. And yes, things could be worse, the cancer could come back. "Buck up, Skippy" speeches don't cut it, here. Tinsel and decorated trees just don't fill the holes in my heart. But you have a nice set of holidays, too. 1) Not really, should I? Just kidding. Maybe I did go a bit off topic there. How rare is that on these boards? I do think you ought to go to church because you can meet some really nice atheists there. Where's the light bulb emoticon? 2) Not being superstitious can come in handy for things like that. 3) Some families put too much sage in the turkey dressing. 4) I'm all out of "things could be worse" sayings. Maybe that's just as well. |
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