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Post by sdrew13163 on Nov 17, 2017 4:50:07 GMT
I also think that BvS should've just been a straight adaptation of The Dark Knight Returns. Wonder Woman could've just been a post-credits cameo. It is what it is. I think they've got a good lineup of directors to headline their next several movies. The DCEU is not dead quite yet. I don't think they should have tried Batman vs. Superman at all this early in the game. The Dark Knight Returns was about long-standing issues between the two men coming to a head. You can't have long-standing issues with someone you've never met and have only been aware of for a year. And Batman just looks like a big dope falling for Luthor's machinations like that. It might not be dead, but I'd say it just took a punch to the groin from a guy wearing brass knuckles. They definitely acted too hastily. I think it would've been cool to see them take it even slower than the MCU. Make a Superman trilogy, then a Batman trilogy, then a Dark Knight Returns adaptation that links to the other Justice League members in post-credit scenes. Then we get a few standalones with Flash and Wonder Woman and Cyborg and the others, then a Justice League movie. I think they need to separate themselves from the MCU more. They can't beat them at their own game. MCU movies connect to every other one to create a kind of picture, like pieces in a puzzle; meanwhile I think the DCEU should've been more about standalone adventures that will very sparingly connect in a team-up movie. Then again, I say they should've taken it slower, but I'm already experiencing some franchise fatigue with both universes. I just don't think it'll be the same after Infinity War for comic book movies in general. I really think it's going to get old for a lot of people.
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Post by formersamhmd on Nov 17, 2017 4:54:58 GMT
I don't think they should have tried Batman vs. Superman at all this early in the game. The Dark Knight Returns was about long-standing issues between the two men coming to a head. You can't have long-standing issues with someone you've never met and have only been aware of for a year. And Batman just looks like a big dope falling for Luthor's machinations like that. It might not be dead, but I'd say it just took a punch to the groin from a guy wearing brass knuckles. They definitely acted too hastily. I think it would've been cool to see them take it even slower than the MCU. Make a Superman trilogy, then a Batman trilogy, then a Dark Knight Returns adaptation that links to the other Justice League members in post-credit scenes. Then we get a few standalones with Flash and Wonder Woman and Cyborg and the others, then a Justice League movie. I think they need to separate themselves from the MCU more. They can't beat them at their own game. MCU movies connect to every other one to create a kind of picture, like pieces in a puzzle; meanwhile I think the DCEU should've been more about standalone adventures that will very sparingly connect in a team-up movie. Then again, I say they should've taken it slower, but I'm already experiencing some franchise fatigue with both universes. I just don't think it'll be the same after Infinity War for comic book movies in general. I really think it's going to get old for a lot of people. It would've been better if they'd made a modern day WW story and a Aquaman story after the first Superman one with Batman being the connecting character for the movies the way Coulson was in the Phase 1 movies. Only with Batman, it's about him slowly becoming more and more worried about these superbeings in every appearance, which leads to BvS when he decides that Superman might be the biggest danger to Humanity. The opposite of what Coulson was doing.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2017 4:56:13 GMT
I don't think they should have tried Batman vs. Superman at all this early in the game. The Dark Knight Returns was about long-standing issues between the two men coming to a head. You can't have long-standing issues with someone you've never met and have only been aware of for a year. And Batman just looks like a big dope falling for Luthor's machinations like that. It might not be dead, but I'd say it just took a punch to the groin from a guy wearing brass knuckles. They definitely acted too hastily. I think it would've been cool to see them take it even slower than the MCU. Make a Superman trilogy, then a Batman trilogy, then a Dark Knight Returns adaptation that links to the other Justice League members in post-credit scenes. Then we get a few standalones with Flash and Wonder Woman and Cyborg and the others, then a Justice League movie. I think they need to separate themselves from the MCU more. They can't beat them at their own game. MCU movies connect to every other one to create a kind of picture, like pieces in a puzzle; meanwhile I think the DCEU should've been more about standalone adventures that will very sparingly connect in a team-up movie. Then again, I say they should've taken it slower, but I'm already experiencing some franchise fatigue with both universes. I just don't think it'll be the same after Infinity War for comic book movies in general. I really think it's going to get old for a lot of people. Honestly, if they were ever to beat the MCU at its own game, they needed to get that ball rolling with Batman Begins. Yes, I know about Nolan's request for them not to do crossover anything with his Batman. The fact remains 2005 was their last best chance. Well, if they hadn't offed Wonder Woman's entire universe off screen, they could have used Hades and his army of the undead to lay siege to Mount Olympus or something in the JL movie. That'd have been different from The Avengers and MCU. I don't think the MCU will die after Infinity War. It'll just probably make less money for a while, like in Phase 1, and hit its stride again later down the line.
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Post by sdrew13163 on Nov 17, 2017 4:59:44 GMT
They definitely acted too hastily. I think it would've been cool to see them take it even slower than the MCU. Make a Superman trilogy, then a Batman trilogy, then a Dark Knight Returns adaptation that links to the other Justice League members in post-credit scenes. Then we get a few standalones with Flash and Wonder Woman and Cyborg and the others, then a Justice League movie. I think they need to separate themselves from the MCU more. They can't beat them at their own game. MCU movies connect to every other one to create a kind of picture, like pieces in a puzzle; meanwhile I think the DCEU should've been more about standalone adventures that will very sparingly connect in a team-up movie. Then again, I say they should've taken it slower, but I'm already experiencing some franchise fatigue with both universes. I just don't think it'll be the same after Infinity War for comic book movies in general. I really think it's going to get old for a lot of people. It would've been better if they'd made a modern day WW story and a Aquaman story after the first Superman one with Batman being the connecting character for the movies the way Coulson was in the Phase 1 movies. Only with Batman, it's about him slowly becoming more and more worried about these superbeings in every appearance, which leads to BvS when he decides that Superman might be the biggest danger to Humanity. The opposite of what Coulson was doing. That could've worked. I think Batman should have a much bigger role than Coulson did, but I see what you mean. They just needed to slow down a little bit and think a few more things through.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Nov 17, 2017 5:05:06 GMT
No matter what the direction of these movies might’ve turned out to be, the first ever Justice League movie was always going to have a tough battle ahead of it for one simple reason: Marvel did it first. There’s no point in arguing that the whole reason we have a DC shared universe to begin with is because of the success of the MCU. The idea of a superhero crossover movie had already been done with The Avengers, which was of course a record breaking hit. No matter what would’ve happened with these DC movies, JL would’ve always been viewed as an attempt to replicate the success that Marvel enjoyed with TA. It was never going to match the the kind of money TA made because it would’ve been viewed as an imitation at the end of the day. I’m not saying that things couldn’t have turned out better, but the DCEU (or something) was never going to match the MCU because it simply came too late in time. Thats my two cents. The irony is that Warner has had access to each and every DC character and could've put together a shared continuity as early as the late 80's but instead they waited till their competition did it first, now they're playing catch-up and mustard, and Wonder Woman's been their only genuinely well-liked film to date. That's the standard they have to live up to now, as they were unsuccessful in equaling Nolan's Batman trilogy.
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Post by formersamhmd on Nov 17, 2017 5:07:05 GMT
It would've been better if they'd made a modern day WW story and a Aquaman story after the first Superman one with Batman being the connecting character for the movies the way Coulson was in the Phase 1 movies. Only with Batman, it's about him slowly becoming more and more worried about these superbeings in every appearance, which leads to BvS when he decides that Superman might be the biggest danger to Humanity. The opposite of what Coulson was doing. That could've worked. I think Batman should have a much bigger role than Coulson did, but I see what you mean. They just needed to slow down a little bit and think a few more things through. Yeah, one example of not thinking things through was making Bruce an older guy in his 40s. If they want to preserve his character relationships that would mean Catwoman would have to be in her late 30s or early 40s as well... ...Thing is, Hollywood Agism would never allow that which is why they only seem interested in women in their 20s for the Catwoman role even though this would mean she was a teenager when she would've first run into Bruce. At least Batman Returns got it right by having a Catwoman in her early to mid 30s against Keaton.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2017 5:07:40 GMT
No matter what the direction of these movies might’ve turned out to be, the first ever Justice League movie was always going to have a tough battle ahead of it for one simple reason: Marvel did it first. There’s no point in arguing that the whole reason we have a DC shared universe to begin with is because of the success of the MCU. The idea of a superhero crossover movie had already been done with The Avengers, which was of course a record breaking hit. No matter what would’ve happened with these DC movies, JL would’ve always been viewed as an attempt to replicate the success that Marvel enjoyed with TA. It was never going to match the the kind of money TA made because it would’ve been viewed as an imitation at the end of the day. I’m not saying that things couldn’t have turned out better, but the DCEU (or something) was never going to match the MCU because it simply came too late in time. Thats my two cents. The irony is that Warner has had access to each and every DC character and could've put together a shared continuity as early as the late 80's but instead they waited till their competition did it first, now they're playing catch-up and mustard, and Wonder Woman's been their only genuinely well-liked film to date. That's the standard they have to live up to now, as they were unsuccessful in equaling Nolan's Batman trilogy. How ironic that the character they were most reluctant to give a movie to is the reason they're still chugging along right now.
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Post by sdrew13163 on Nov 17, 2017 5:09:26 GMT
They definitely acted too hastily. I think it would've been cool to see them take it even slower than the MCU. Make a Superman trilogy, then a Batman trilogy, then a Dark Knight Returns adaptation that links to the other Justice League members in post-credit scenes. Then we get a few standalones with Flash and Wonder Woman and Cyborg and the others, then a Justice League movie. I think they need to separate themselves from the MCU more. They can't beat them at their own game. MCU movies connect to every other one to create a kind of picture, like pieces in a puzzle; meanwhile I think the DCEU should've been more about standalone adventures that will very sparingly connect in a team-up movie. Then again, I say they should've taken it slower, but I'm already experiencing some franchise fatigue with both universes. I just don't think it'll be the same after Infinity War for comic book movies in general. I really think it's going to get old for a lot of people. Honestly, if they were ever to beat the MCU at its own game, they needed to get that ball rolling with Batman Begins. Yes, I know about Nolan's request for them not to do crossover anything with his Batman. The fact remains 2005 was their last best chance. Well, if they hadn't offed Wonder Woman's entire universe off screen, they could have used Hades and his army of the undead to lay siege to Mount Olympus or something in the JL movie. That'd have been different from The Avengers and MCU. I don't think the MCU will die after Infinity War. It'll just probably make less money for a while, like in Phase 1, and hit its stride again later down the line. A shared universe with Nolan's trilogy is where I'm torn. Obviously we're talking about a franchise being started by three of the best comic book movies, but I also think that anything that comes after it could damage its achievements. That being said, it would be crazy to see the box office returns on a sequel to The Dark Knight Rises that stars Gordon-Levitt as Batman and Cavill as Superman being directed by Christopher Nolan. Just to clarify, I don't think the MCU will die after Infinity War. I think all of their movies will still make bank year after year, but, just as you said, not as much as they do now. Infinity War just kind of feels like the icing on top of a great comic book movie run; whether it was from the MCU, the Dark Knight Trilogy, the X-Men franchise, or even some other DC stuff, it's been a crazy ride.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Nov 17, 2017 5:10:38 GMT
No matter what the direction of these movies might’ve turned out to be, the first ever Justice League movie was always going to have a tough battle ahead of it for one simple reason: Marvel did it first. There’s no point in arguing that the whole reason we have a DC shared universe to begin with is because of the success of the MCU. The idea of a superhero crossover movie had already been done with The Avengers, which was of course a record breaking hit. No matter what would’ve happened with these DC movies, JL would’ve always been viewed as an attempt to replicate the success that Marvel enjoyed with TA. It was never going to match the the kind of money TA made because it would’ve been viewed as an imitation at the end of the day. I’m not saying that things couldn’t have turned out better, but the DCEU (or something) was never going to match the MCU because it simply came too late in time. Thats my two cents. The irony is that Warner has had access to each and every DC character and could've put together a shared continuity as early as the late 80's but instead they waited till their competition did it first, now they're playing catch-up and mustard, and Wonder Woman's been their only genuinely well-liked film to date. That's the standard they have to live up to now, as they were unsuccessful in equaling Nolan's Batman trilogy. The thing is, DC never had their own film studio like Marvel did. WB has owned them for the longest time, and they do not exclusively make CBMs.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Nov 17, 2017 5:12:10 GMT
That could've worked. I think Batman should have a much bigger role than Coulson did, but I see what you mean. They just needed to slow down a little bit and think a few more things through. Yeah, one example of not thinking things through was making Bruce an older guy in his 40s. If they want to preserve his character relationships that would mean Catwoman would have to be in her late 30s or early 40s as well... ...Thing is, Hollywood Agism would never allow that which is why they only seem interested in women in their 20s for the Catwoman role even though this would mean she was a teenager when she would've first run into Bruce. At least Batman Returns got it right by having a Catwoman in her early to mid 30s against Keaton. Well, in The New 52 they did make Selina considerably younger than Bruce, I forget the age difference exactly but I believe Bruce was said to be in his late 30's while Selina was said to be 23 in one issue. However, I see your point. Bruce's line to Diana( Before finding out her origins) in BvS about 'knowing' women 'like her' is definitely a nod to Selina Kyle because who else really fits the bill?
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Nov 17, 2017 5:17:01 GMT
The irony is that Warner has had access to each and every DC character and could've put together a shared continuity as early as the late 80's but instead they waited till their competition did it first, now they're playing catch-up and mustard, and Wonder Woman's been their only genuinely well-liked film to date. That's the standard they have to live up to now, as they were unsuccessful in equaling Nolan's Batman trilogy. The thing is, DC never had their own film studio like Marvel did. WB has owned them for the longest time, and they do not exclusively make CBMs. This is true, and they probably figured Batman was good enough to satisfy their financial needs - back then they did not have the film rights to LOTR or Harry Potter, and making over a billion dollars was not as common back then as it is today. Also worth noting that in the 90's certain characters from comic books were deemed near impossible a task to finance because of how VFX/SFX they would've required to bring them to life. I guess arguing they could've done one earlier is a moot point, because let's face it the landscape was just not right at the time.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2017 5:17:14 GMT
Honestly, if they were ever to beat the MCU at its own game, they needed to get that ball rolling with Batman Begins. Yes, I know about Nolan's request for them not to do crossover anything with his Batman. The fact remains 2005 was their last best chance. Well, if they hadn't offed Wonder Woman's entire universe off screen, they could have used Hades and his army of the undead to lay siege to Mount Olympus or something in the JL movie. That'd have been different from The Avengers and MCU. I don't think the MCU will die after Infinity War. It'll just probably make less money for a while, like in Phase 1, and hit its stride again later down the line. A shared universe with Nolan's trilogy is where I'm torn. Obviously we're talking about a franchise being started by three of the best comic book movies, but I also think that anything that comes after it could damage its achievements. That being said, it would be crazy to see the box office returns on a sequel to The Dark Knight Rises that stars Gordon-Levitt as Batman and Cavill as Superman being directed by Christopher Nolan. Just to clarify, I don't think the MCU will die after Infinity War. I think all of their movies will still make bank year after year, but, just as you said, not as much as they do now. Infinity War just kind of feels like the icing on top of a great comic book movie run; whether it was from the MCU, the Dark Knight Trilogy, the X-Men franchise, or even some other DC stuff, it's been a crazy ride. ? Don't see how being part of a cinematic universe would damage their achievements in the slightest. Launching a game-changing universe would make it an even bigger achievement, if anything. Agreed.
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Post by poelzig on Nov 17, 2017 5:20:50 GMT
No matter what the direction of these movies might’ve turned out to be, the first ever Justice League movie was always going to have a tough battle ahead of it for one simple reason: Marvel did it first. There’s no point in arguing that the whole reason we have a DC shared universe to begin with is because of the success of the MCU. The idea of a superhero crossover movie had already been done with The Avengers, which was of course a record breaking hit. No matter what would’ve happened with these DC movies, JL would’ve always been viewed as an attempt to replicate the success that Marvel enjoyed with TA. It was never going to match the the kind of money TA made because it would’ve been viewed as an imitation at the end of the day. I’m not saying that things couldn’t have turned out better, but the DCEU (or something) was never going to match the MCU because it simply came too late in time. Thats my two cents. No. It should have been EASY. Supes & Bats are highly recognizable Wonder Woman had a t.v. series most remember. They squandered it trying to reinvent their brand into the image of Batman. If making successful movies was easy all movies would be successful.
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Post by formersamhmd on Nov 17, 2017 5:23:40 GMT
Yeah, one example of not thinking things through was making Bruce an older guy in his 40s. If they want to preserve his character relationships that would mean Catwoman would have to be in her late 30s or early 40s as well... ...Thing is, Hollywood Agism would never allow that which is why they only seem interested in women in their 20s for the Catwoman role even though this would mean she was a teenager when she would've first run into Bruce. At least Batman Returns got it right by having a Catwoman in her early to mid 30s against Keaton. Well, in The New 52 they did make Selina considerably younger than Bruce, I forget the age difference exactly but I believe Bruce was said to be in his late 30's while Selina was said to be 23 in one issue. However, I see your point. Bruce's line to Diana( Before finding out her origins) in BvS about 'knowing' women 'like her' is definitely a nod to Selina Kyle because who else really fits the bill? He's talking about thievery, it had to be a Catwoman reference. Problem is, they just don't care about her age in relation to having a history with Bruce. The only reason they care about Catwoman now is because they want her for a "Gotham City Sirens" movie and they think she has to be the same age as Margot Robbie (who also was way too young to be playing a veteran Harley) or else the film won't work. Nevermind Selina NOT being in her late 30s means she won't work with Affleck...it's just a mess.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Nov 17, 2017 5:28:27 GMT
Well, in The New 52 they did make Selina considerably younger than Bruce, I forget the age difference exactly but I believe Bruce was said to be in his late 30's while Selina was said to be 23 in one issue. However, I see your point. Bruce's line to Diana( Before finding out her origins) in BvS about 'knowing' women 'like her' is definitely a nod to Selina Kyle because who else really fits the bill? He's talking about thievery, it had to be a Catwoman reference. Problem is, they just don't care about her age in relation to having a history with Bruce. The only reason they care about Catwoman now is because they want her for a "Gotham City Sirens" movie and they think she has to be the same age as Margot Robbie (who also was way too young to be playing a veteran Harley) or else the film won't work. Nevermind Selina NOT being in her late 30s means she won't work with Affleck...it's just a mess. It's too bad, because a lot of actresses around Affleck's age would fine as his Catwoman, two that spring to mind right away are Kate Beckinsale and Carla Gugino, the former had already been his love interest in a movie and who's ex actually helmed a music video promoting a Batman film while the latter has ties already to the DCEU and has expressed interest in the part. I know, I know, run-on sentence, but still just had to get it out.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2017 5:31:28 GMT
He's talking about thievery, it had to be a Catwoman reference. Problem is, they just don't care about her age in relation to having a history with Bruce. The only reason they care about Catwoman now is because they want her for a "Gotham City Sirens" movie and they think she has to be the same age as Margot Robbie (who also was way too young to be playing a veteran Harley) or else the film won't work. Nevermind Selina NOT being in her late 30s means she won't work with Affleck...it's just a mess. It's too bad, because a lot of actresses around Affleck's age would fine as his Catwoman, two that spring to mind right away are Kate Beckinsale and Carla Gugino, the former had already been his love interest in a movie and who's ex actually helmed a music video promoting a Batman film while the latter has ties already to the DCEU and has expressed interest in the part. I know, I know, run-on sentence, but still just had to get it out. Yeah, Hollywood really needs to get over, especially since older actresses CAN and HAVE drawn big numbers. Hollywood's ageism leaves one wondering how Sigourney Weaver's career stayed solid for so long.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Nov 17, 2017 5:39:17 GMT
It's too bad, because a lot of actresses around Affleck's age would fine as his Catwoman, two that spring to mind right away are Kate Beckinsale and Carla Gugino, the former had already been his love interest in a movie and who's ex actually helmed a music video promoting a Batman film while the latter has ties already to the DCEU and has expressed interest in the part. I know, I know, run-on sentence, but still just had to get it out. Yeah, Hollywood really needs to get over, especially since older actresses CAN and HAVE drawn big numbers. Hollywood's ageism leaves one wondering how Sigourney Weaver's career stayed solid for so long. It's really because of the success of the Alien films which made her a bankable actress and her critical acclaim which led her being in many diverse and exciting projects to reinforced this to the mainstream. Of course, there is also the fact that she's aged pretty well over the years - she's nearing 70 right now but looks in early 50's.
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Post by merh on Nov 17, 2017 11:42:14 GMT
It didn't help that they didn't give a solo movie to each member either. I also think that BvS should've just been a straight adaptation of The Dark Knight Returns. Wonder Woman could've just been a post-credits cameo. It is what it is. I think they've got a good lineup of directors to headline their next several movies. The DCEU is not dead quite yet. They could have done team-ups. We first glimpsed Hawkeye in Thor. We first saw Black Widow in IM2.
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Post by miike80 on Nov 17, 2017 11:59:32 GMT
They definitely acted too hastily. I think it would've been cool to see them take it even slower than the MCU. Make a Superman trilogy, then a Batman trilogy, then a Dark Knight Returns adaptation that links to the other Justice League members in post-credit scenes. Then we get a few standalones with Flash and Wonder Woman and Cyborg and the others, then a Justice League movie. I think they need to separate themselves from the MCU more. They can't beat them at their own game. MCU movies connect to every other one to create a kind of picture, like pieces in a puzzle; meanwhile I think the DCEU should've been more about standalone adventures that will very sparingly connect in a team-up movie. Then again, I say they should've taken it slower, but I'm already experiencing some franchise fatigue with both universes. I just don't think it'll be the same after Infinity War for comic book movies in general. I really think it's going to get old for a lot of people. Honestly, if they were ever to beat the MCU at its own game, they needed to get that ball rolling with Batman Begins. Yes, I know about Nolan's request for them not to do crossover anything with his Batman. The fact remains 2005 was their last best chance. Well, if they hadn't offed Wonder Woman's entire universe off screen, they could have used Hades and his army of the undead to lay siege to Mount Olympus or something in the JL movie. That'd have been different from The Avengers and MCU. I don't think the MCU will die after Infinity War. It'll just probably make less money for a while, like in Phase 1, and hit its stride again later down the line. I think if Infinty War is well liked( and it probably will be) the next one will make huge numbers regardless of quality. Maybe after that one it will lose some steam, but i wouldn't bet on it
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2017 12:12:27 GMT
Sunrise reported yesterday if ‘Justice League’ flops there won’t be a second movie and ‘The Batman’ will be forwarded and it was reported earlier this year if the DCEU movies flopped Warner Bros would move their focus back to Batman and the Bat Universe. If it flops everybody wins either way.
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