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Post by scabab on Nov 25, 2017 20:31:38 GMT
This has gone way too off track (no surprise there). I deleted a whole bunch of previous posts, try and keep it a bit more civil ok?
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Post by DC-Fan on Nov 25, 2017 21:12:26 GMT
Yes, Marvel Studios has a formula, but it's generally the hero's journey in which generally most films have used. Another one is what I call the "warning" trope in which the hero breaks an established rule in order for there to be any resolution. Scott Lang is warned to not go into the quantum realm, but he does so in the climax. Stephen Strange is warned not to break the timeline, but he does so anywhere to reverse the damage in Hong Kong and save Wong and the civilians. So MCU copied all those things (i.e. the hero's journey, the "warning" trope) from DC.
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Post by formersamhmd on Nov 25, 2017 21:25:03 GMT
Yes, Marvel Studios has a formula, but it's generally the hero's journey in which generally most films have used. Another one is what I call the "warning" trope in which the hero breaks an established rule in order for there to be any resolution. Scott Lang is warned to not go into the quantum realm, but he does so in the climax. Stephen Strange is warned not to break the timeline, but he does so anywhere to reverse the damage in Hong Kong and save Wong and the civilians. So MCU copied all those things (i.e. the hero's journey, the "warning" trope) from Classical storytelling that predates DC.
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Post by harpospoke on Nov 25, 2017 21:30:37 GMT
What number is this fake complaint in the Marvel Haters Handbook©? Put this alongside "weak villains", "no stakes", "they take no risks", and "too jokey".
Suure...all Marvel films are just alike. All you have to do is watch movies while in a coma and you'll think Ant-Man, GotG, Thor 3, and Winter Solider are the same movie.
Marvel's "formula" appears to be "make movies that people like". Interestingly, DC seems to have their own formula "make movies that are divisive to the audience and turn off critics". Not the path I would take, but maybe DC has some kind of plan behind that one.
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Post by scabab on Nov 25, 2017 21:51:22 GMT
They're not all alike, it's just that they mostly seem to play things too safe and it's all pretty straightforward.
X-men has had its up and downs but X-men Days of Future Past was a pretty clever idea for a movie which then soft rebooted the whole thing. Deadpool is a R rated self aware violent comedy movie. Logan was completely different from any previous X-men movie. New Mutants looks like it's going to be some kind of horror movie.
It'd be nice if Marvel mixed things up a bit. Iron Man, Ant-man and Doctor Strange somehow all feel kinda like the same plot.
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Post by formersamhmd on Nov 25, 2017 22:16:54 GMT
X-men has had its up and downs but X-men Days of Future Past was a pretty clever idea for a movie which then soft rebooted the whole thing. If you need a soft reboot to start with, you're in trouble. It only got made because Fox just wanted to get rid of Ryan Reynolds, and it still isn't clear how it ties into the other X-Movies. NM won't be any good, and I've made my feelings on Logan clear. How?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2017 0:24:29 GMT
They're not all alike, it's just that they mostly seem to play things too safe and it's all pretty straightforward. X-men has had its up and downs but X-men Days of Future Past was a pretty clever idea for a movie which then soft rebooted the whole thing. Deadpool is a R rated self aware violent comedy movie. Logan was completely different from any previous X-men movie. New Mutants looks like it's going to be some kind of horror movie. It'd be nice if Marvel mixed things up a bit. Iron Man, Ant-man and Doctor Strange somehow all feel kinda like the same plot. Oh, shut up. They are mixing things up, but giving strange and obscure a chance. You'd never see Fox or WB doing that. And they do not play things too safe. So sorry the body counts aren't enough to sate your bloodlust.
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Post by charzhino on Nov 26, 2017 1:34:14 GMT
They're not all alike, it's just that they mostly seem to play things too safe and it's all pretty straightforward. X-men has had its up and downs but X-men Days of Future Past was a pretty clever idea for a movie which then soft rebooted the whole thing. Deadpool is a R rated self aware violent comedy movie. Logan was completely different from any previous X-men movie. New Mutants looks like it's going to be some kind of horror movie. It'd be nice if Marvel mixed things up a bit. Iron Man, Ant-man and Doctor Strange somehow all feel kinda like the same plot. Oh, shut up. They are mixing things up, but giving strange and obscure a chance. You'd never see Fox or WB doing that. And they do not play things too safe. So sorry the body counts aren't enough to sate your bloodlust. This is why MCU fans like you dont understand what the term "different movies" actually means. Sure Gotg is "different" from antman and Dr Strange but only aesthetically. The people who think MCU movies are mostly the same is because they feel the same although visually they are very different. That is because of formulaic tropes like recurring themes, jokes, action beats, villains, music, tone and predictability. Try thinking beyond just saying guardian's is so different to Antman because one is set in space with blue aliens. That definition of different is very superficial.
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Post by formersamhmd on Nov 26, 2017 1:36:30 GMT
Sure Gotg is "different" from antman and Dr Strange but only aesthetically. Sorry, you need to do better than that. "Feel" the same, so you're upset they took the extra effort to make it clear it's all one universe.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2017 5:34:38 GMT
Sure Gotg is "different" from antman and Dr Strange but only aesthetically. Sorry, you need to do better than that. "Feel" the same, so you're upset they took the extra effort to make it clear it's all one universe. Its supposed to feel all the same because its one shared universe. Its the non MCU fans who cant see that the MCU films are all different genres and cover different themes. But hey they are kids in their teens who want to be adults so badly. You cant really blame them for it.
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Post by taylorfirst1 on Nov 26, 2017 5:38:20 GMT
MCU movies are less formulaic than James Bond movies, Indiana Jones Movies, Tarzan movies, and even most of the Star Wars movies. All successful franchises but all far more formulaic than the MCU. Frankly, I think it is just another straw man argument.
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Post by scabab on Nov 26, 2017 9:21:15 GMT
formersamhmd1. It wasn't in trouble though. 2. It doesn't really matter why it was made, it was still made. It was a completely different movie when compared to other movies in the X-men series. Marvel have yet to make an R rated movie. 3. New Mutants doesn't have to be good but it still looks completely different altogether from previous movies. Where's Marvel's horror movie? 4. They all followed the same path. Theres many similarities between all three. Some similarities stronger than others. Like Tony Stark and Stephen Strange being arrogant dicks who find themselves severely injured and have to create their powers in order to continue on. Tony Stark and Scott Lang obtain advanced suits and then use them to confront the villain. The villain Obadiah Stane and Darren Cross wanting to become rich and who have the equivalent evil version of the main guys suit etc.
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Post by formersamhmd on Nov 26, 2017 12:37:49 GMT
Then why did they think they needed a reboot? It DOES matter why it was made. It shows it was less a FOX film and more an independent film that FOX co-opted because they saw the money potential. On their own, Fox never would've made Deadpool. I don't think it does. That's right out of the comics, take it up with them. That's pretty superficial. The "Evil Counterpart" idea has existed long before DC or Marvel.
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Post by scabab on Nov 26, 2017 13:45:56 GMT
formersamhmdIt gave the series freedom to move forward with the First Class cast. If they tried to fit in with the original movies then they couldn't have done Apocalypse or Dark Phoenix. Yeah but they did make it. It exists and it's nothing like the other X-men movies in the slightest bit. Which movie does New Mutants look like? It doesn't matter if it's in the comics, it would just be it has the same issue as well. Not really, Iron Man and Ant-man were pretty similar. Especially because of the villain and what he was after. Both were high up in a company, were "friendly" with a main character in that same company, betrayed them, wanted to get their hands on their high tech suit all to get more power, didn't get it so they had their own evil version, they fought the good guy and lost in the end.
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Post by formersamhmd on Nov 26, 2017 13:51:11 GMT
formersamhmd It gave the series freedom to move forward with the First Class cast. If they tried to fit in with the original movies then they couldn't have done Apocalypse or Dark Phoenix. Then they should've stuck to their guns and admitted First Class was a reboot. It already messed up what X1 said about Xavier and Magneto's pasts. No, Reynolds made a movie that was meant to be separate from the other X-Movies while using X-Characters. Then Fox stepped in for the sequels. Seems like X-Men usual to me. Comic readers never had any problems with it. You don't see anyone complaining about the similarities between Batman and Arrow. Because they use technology? Character wise they're pretty different. Except with Stane it was personal between him and Tony, Cross was more about doing what he did out of his resentment towards Pym.
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Post by scabab on Nov 26, 2017 13:59:00 GMT
formersamhmdFirst Class wasn't a reboot though. There's timeline inconsistencies but it was never a reboot. They even went out of their way to explain why Mystique was still young in the original. Yeah none of that really matters. It doesn't stop the fact that it exists and it's completely different. Which one? Considering the dark and horror tone that New Mutants is shown to have then which specifically of the X-men movies does it look like? People having problems with it is beside the point as is it being in the comics. It's a similarity that they have. You asked how I thought they had the same plot and because both have lead character who are arrogant jerks who have a life threatening accident and then come up with their super powers in order to carry on in life, then that is why they are similar. If Cross is doing what he's doing out of resentment for Pym then that would also be personal.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2017 14:17:22 GMT
Duh. Of course.
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Post by formersamhmd on Nov 26, 2017 14:18:47 GMT
formersamhmd First Class wasn't a reboot though. There's timeline inconsistencies but it was never a reboot. They even went out of their way to explain why Mystique was still young in the original. Then they should've bothered not making the other glaring timeline mistakes. It does. It shows that FOX couldn't make it on their own and merely co-opted someone else's work. Window Dressing. We'll see how the actual movie turns out. And this was true in the comics as well, but no one had any problems until the movies came out. It just seems like more of the Anti-MCU stuff that's been going on for years. Yes, but not personal against Scott Lang.
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Post by charzhino on Nov 26, 2017 14:24:26 GMT
"Feel" the same, so you're upset they took the extra effort to make it clear it's all one universe. Glad we agree.
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Post by formersamhmd on Nov 26, 2017 14:31:16 GMT
"Feel" the same, so you're upset they took the extra effort to make it clear it's all one universe. Glad we agree. Yeah, how dare they put in that extra work for our benefit.
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