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Post by charzhino on Nov 27, 2017 23:15:36 GMT
The darker themes presented in Logan was not suitable for children. Like what? Getting old and dying? Yes more or less. The questioning of ones mortality and the dark thoughts of ending persistent suffering by ending your own life. Not kids stuff. |
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Post by formersamhmd on Nov 27, 2017 23:21:58 GMT
Like what? Getting old and dying? Yes more or less. The questioning of ones mortality and the dark thoughts of ending persistent suffering by ending your own life. Not kids stuff. Please, that's something in plenty of films for all Ages. Including kids movies. |
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Post by charzhino on Nov 27, 2017 23:30:12 GMT
Yes more or less. The questioning of ones mortality and the dark thoughts of ending persistent suffering by ending your own life. Not kids stuff. Please, that's something in plenty of films for all Ages. Including kids movies. But not as visceral and explicit as in Logan. |
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Post by formersamhmd on Nov 28, 2017 0:06:09 GMT
Please, that's something in plenty of films for all Ages. Including kids movies. But not as visceral and explicit as in Logan. So it is a theme for all ages, and Logan just threw in buckets of blood and gore to dress it up. |
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plasma
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Post by plasma on Nov 28, 2017 1:23:36 GMT
Some, but they do try to change things up. Honestly what we call the Marvel formula is more like the generic superhero formula. As long as I enjoy the film, it really doesn't bother me that much.
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Nov 28, 2017 3:48:18 GMT
But not as visceral and explicit as in Logan. So it is a theme for all ages, and Logan just threw in buckets of blood and gore to dress it up. Nah, every MCU movie has artificial boosters, especially the ones you like the most, while Logan succeeded purely on merit. |
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Post by harpospoke on Nov 28, 2017 3:48:19 GMT
Iron Man wasn't an unknown property. He'd been around just as long as Spider-man. He'd been in different cartoons, he had how own cartoon, he'd been in popular video games, people knew who Iron Man was. They made a superhero movie at a time when superhero movies were making a lot of money, even Ghost Rider as awful as that movie was made a lot of money. I'm trying to decide if you are just joking here. Iron Man was strictly B list before the movie made him A list. The geek crowd knew his name just like we knew Iron Fist before his TV show. But again...Marvel did this when EVERYTHING depended on the movie being a success and they did it with Iron Man as the character and RDJ as the star. They were not like those other studios you named who could weather a failure so there was far less risk for them. For Marvel the risk was EVERYTHING. We literally would not be talking about this subject today if IM had failed. Marvel Studios probably wouldn't exist at this point. I've seen this before. Prior to certain Marvel movies the claim is that "Ha ha...this is where Marvel fails!" (GotG/Ant-Man/Dr Strange) and then when those movies are successful the rewriting of history begins. "That wasn't a risk at all!" Only in hindsight are the properties a "sure thing". They were anything but prior to their movies. Just like RDJ is now "obvious"....that was not true at all in 2008. They were very hesitant to cast him for a good reason. Thanks for helping my point. Fox doesn't need to do many CBMs to survive so they make less of them over time. Nothing they do with X-men is a big threat to the health of the studio. And even with THAT advantage, it took them 17 years to venture into an R rated CBM. ...And that only happened because RR showed them it could work when they had no faith in it for 10 years. R rated movies aren't "risky" when you lower the budget...which of course is exactly what Fox did. That is literally the reason you lower the budget for R rated movies...to lower the risk. Again you prove my point. Marvel was in an incredibly precarious situation. It was make or break with Iron Man...and they chose to go to a place no other studio would go right off the bat with the shared universe. Everything they did was a huge risk and they went for it. That it worked is why everyone is trying to copy them now. That everyone else is failing at it demonstrates just how hard it is to pull off...and how risky it was to try it in the first place. You can't go back and rewrite history just because the risks Marvel took paid off. " With great risk comes great reward". Marvel is reaping the rewards from that risk today. No kidding. Just like every other studio that makes comic book movies. What a shock that none of them are killing off the characters. Marvel is actually killing too many characters in my book. You won't see WB killing off the Joker or Lex Luthor any time soon. Marvel has killed off most of the villains before they got a chance to develop. I think they are learning a lesson there since Hela should return and the Vulture lived. A fake complaint. We know it's a fake complaint because it is suddenly not a problem when DC or any other studio does it. Zero complaints from those who claim to be upset at Marvel not killing characters when Batman and Superman come back from the dead. I mean...the hypocrisy is pretty obvious here. Oh naturally it still counts for other studios even though the characters are right back on the screen in the next movie. How convenient if a person just happens to be looking for something to criticize Marvel about. When you change the future....it didn't really happen, did it? That's the purpose of an apocalyptic vision (in case you missed that part) So the X-men haven't killed anyone either. They saved everyone. Which totally skips the biggest flaw in this whole idea. Longing for the deaths of heroic characters is one of the most desperate reaches for a complaint about Marvel I can think of. That has NEVER been a thing in story telling. The heroes live 99% of the time in stories and it works great. This has been a thing for thousands of years. Biggest fake complaint yet. |
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Post by harpospoke on Nov 28, 2017 3:50:09 GMT
Doing an R-rated movie isn't exactly a risk. At all. The "risk" is losing money. They always lower the budget for R rated movies until the risk is exactly the same as a PG-13 movie. So that is a myth behind that fake complaint. |
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Post by harpospoke on Nov 28, 2017 3:57:33 GMT
Boy are you going to be eating crow when Cylops, Jean, Logan, and Prof X show up in future Fox movies. Most of them will be in theaters next November. So much for those "stakes" that only Marvel is expected to have. Fake complaint. You obviously missed the part in Civil War where Nemo was smiling because he knew he won. You'll also need to skip the part in the next movie that Cap and Tony meet face to face where they have to work out the tension between them. That's the only way you'll be able to maintain the "everything was fine at the end of Civil War" fantasy. Cyclops, Jean etc are not the same as the original characters who had their own auora and arcs. Big difference that you fail to recognise. Zemo can smile but the fact is hes not crumbled an empire thats dead forever. His words not mine. The Avengers will be reunite - fact. Hence the stakes in Civil War were fake. No one died. No one hates each other's guts. Panther and WS made up. Rhodey was fine getting paralysed. Vision and Wanda were cool. Hawkeye-Romanov were on friendly terms. Zemo failed. Pure bollocks. Cyclops, Jean, Wolverine, and Prof X aren't going anywhere. They will never die. Just because Fox is so inept they can't keep a continuity together doesn't mean they are "taking risks". It just means they don't have any structure to what they do. I wonder how you'll change your story if Marvel kills off someone like Thor, Cap, or Iron Man in Infinity War ...only to bring those characters back in a new version of the universe later? Let me guess....then it won't count.  The fake complaint about "stakes" is just more of the desperate attempt to find something "wrong" with Marvel. Killing heroes has never been a thing in thousands of years of story telling and still isn't. Superman and Batman have been around for 75 years and they never die either. Don't forget to skip that scene in Infinity War when Cap and Tony have to come to terms with what happened. They are not friends at this point. That's just a fact. |
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Post by harpospoke on Nov 28, 2017 3:58:30 GMT
Logan could have easily been rated PG-13 and it would have been just as successful. They could have made the violence less graphic, changed the language, removed the pointless nudity scene and no one would have known the difference. The darker themes presented in Logan was not suitable for children. Like death and loss? Bambi and Dumbo did that in G rated movies. |
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Post by formersamhmd on Nov 28, 2017 4:42:08 GMT
So it is a theme for all ages, and Logan just threw in buckets of blood and gore to dress it up. Nah, every XCU movie has artificial boosters, especially the ones you like the most, while Logan succeeded purely on blood. Fixed. |
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Post by charzhino on Nov 28, 2017 10:44:41 GMT
Pure bollocks. Cyclops, Jean, Wolverine, and Prof X aren't going anywhere. They will never die. Just because Fox is so inept they can't keep a continuity together doesn't mean they are "taking risks". It just means they don't have any structure to what they do. I wonder how you'll change your story if Marvel kills off someone like Thor, Cap, or Iron Man in Infinity War ...only to bring those characters back in a new version of the universe later? Let me guess....then it won't count. Im talking about the individual portrayals of those characters in their own film-verse, not the actual comic characters themselves. You make an absurd point. If Bales Batman died in Nolans trilogy, im not going to be mad that they brought back Batman the character played by Affleck because that would be in a seperate movie altogther. Cyclops has died, they are now recasting his younger self so its an origin which is fine. If you can't understand the difference then you are beyond help. And if Chris Evans Cap dies in Infinity War, great. But im not going to be upset if they bring back the mantle of Captain America under a new actor like Sam Wilson. They are different! Its a genuine problem with MCU films and its not just me saying it. Get out of your MCU bubble fantasy land and embrace the actual critiques. Movie adaptations and comic story boards are clearly diffrent in their display of story telling. Superman the character is obviously not going to permanently die in the comics because only 1 drawing is "playing him". Clark Kent in the movies is played by many actors within their own universes. If you think im suggesting killing off Superman forever you are wrong. Cap and Stark have never been best friends. Zemos revelation should have destroyed any recompense. But my interpretation of the ending in CW is that they clearly showed Stark a little annoyed but willing to forgive Steve. |
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Lee
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Post by Lee on Nov 28, 2017 11:09:10 GMT
Nah, every XCU movie has artificial boosters, especially the ones you like the most, while Logan succeeded purely on blood. Fixed. Are you still "fixed" the posts of other people, because you can't accept they opinions? Man, your lack in social skills, amused me every time. |
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Post by scabab on Nov 28, 2017 11:18:47 GMT
harpospokeIt doesn't matter if he wasn't A list, B list superheros had had successful movies anyway. He was nothing like Iron Fist, he was a obscure character that only comic fans would know. Iron Man had a plenty of things going for him. There's an entire list here that includes en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Man_in_other_media- A cartoon in the 60's - Appearances in Spider-man cartoons in the 80's - His own cartoon in the 90's. - Appearances in Spider-man cartoons in the 90's - Had his own animated movie and appeared in other animated movies - Was in plenty of games - Had a series of books - Someone from the Wu Tang Clan had an album he called Iron Man Amongst other things. They'd been planning on making an Iron Man movie since 1990. Major studios like Universal, Fox and New Line at one point bought the rights to it. A list actors like Nicholas Cage and Tom Cruise were interested in it. So it was never some obscure thing that nobody had heard of and Marvel Studios took this massive risk by making an Iron Man movie. They were just the first studio to actually get on with it and do it. Seeing as they didn't have the rights to Spider-man, X-men or Fantastic Four then they went with the biggest character that they had. All in a time when these movies were really successful. Of the many movie franchises that Fox has, X-men is their biggest one by far. Logan is Fox's most successful this year. Last year Deadpool was Fox's biggest movie and X-men Apocalypse was their second biggest movie. Going by their 2018 schedule, Deadpool 2 and X-men Dark Phoenix could probably be their two biggest movies again. X-men is important to Fox as it's their biggest property. Changing your rating from the norm can be very risky. There are R rated series that changed their rating to PG-13 and it killed those series entirely, like The Expendables, Terminator or Robocop. James Bond went fro All the X-men movies has been successful as Pg-13 including The Wolverine. With Logan they lowered the budget by just $23 million from that movie in order to make a violent R rated movie. That could easily have gone the wrong way but it went the complete opposite. By changing it up they benefited hugely. Marvel would never take the same risk. They would never follow up a PG-13 movie with a R rated sequel. They apparently have no interest at all even making a lower budget R rated movie. Yeah back in 2008. It's now almost 2018. They are now one of the biggest studios that there is and make multiple movies a year that make hundreds of millions. Yet they are still playing it safe. Where is an R rated Blade movie? Where is their horror movie? Where is the movie that isn't a big budget, action popcorn movie with a lot of jokes and little drama? Not always. Cyclops did actually die in X-men 3, he was then not present in Days of Future Past along with the others because he was dead. Jean Grey was killed in X-men 3, that led over to Wolverine's character in The Wolverine and was again not in Days of Future Past. Storm, Colossus and Magneto all died. Professor X had killed them all prior to the events of Logan which is why they aren't in it. Until proven otherwise, Professor X and Logan are as good as dead and buried. The MCU has killed nobody of any real significance. Again it doesn't have to be Iron Man or Thor or Captain America but there are plenty of other heroes in these movies that they could have killed off, Black Widow, Hawkeye, Falcon, War Machine, Nick Fury, any member of the Guardians of the Galaxy aside from Star Lord, Winter Soldier etc. Will they kill The Wasp in Ant-man 2? No of course they wouldn't. Yes of course it happened. If they hadn't been killed in the first place then there would have been no need to change the future at all. Days of Future Past would never have needed to have been made if they weren't actually dead. Plus even after they changed the future, Logan came after those events where again they were killed. By the most current point in time, all of the X-men are dead, everyone of them. All Tony Stark had was a vision. A made up vision? A vision from the future? It doesn't matter because it wasn't real so the characters have never actually died. They are still all alive.
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Post by formersamhmd on Nov 28, 2017 13:28:18 GMT
And then was brought back, because Singer couldn't stomach death. MCU Detractors only say that because the MCU people were nice enough to tell us ahead of time about future movies. Instead of appreciating them doing this for their fanbase you just complain. We won't know what'll happen until IW. |
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Post by formersamhmd on Nov 28, 2017 13:29:52 GMT
Are you still "fixed" the posts of other people, because you can't accept they opinions? Man, your lack in social skills, amused me every time. Grow a thicker skin. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2017 13:31:20 GMT
the MCU films are way too formulaic imo. I will admit that I dig the Cap films though.
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Lee
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Post by Lee on Nov 28, 2017 13:33:39 GMT
Are you still "fixed" the posts of other people, because you can't accept they opinions? Man, your lack in social skills, amused me every time. Grow a thicker skin. Unlike you, i can accept other people opnions. I don't need to fix their posts, so that it looks like my own opinion. |
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Post by formersamhmd on Nov 28, 2017 13:40:21 GMT
You can't take any levity whatsoever. |
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Post by kuatorises on Nov 28, 2017 15:16:58 GMT
harpospoke Iron Man wasn't an unknown property. He'd been around just as long as Spider-man. He'd been in different cartoons, he had how own cartoon, he'd been in popular video games, people knew who Iron Man was. They made a superhero movie at a time when superhero movies were making a lot of money, even Ghost Rider as awful as that movie was made a lot of money. Or it took 8 movies before they decided to do a R rated movie. Marvel won't have an R rated movie within the first 20 movies. Unlike other studios they are incredibly limited in what they could do from the get go. While other studios can make anything and everything, Marvel only make superhero movies belonging to a certain brand. There's been 17 movies now and not one major character has died. A few side characters like Coulson or Odin and that's it. Never mind not killing Iron Man or Captain America, they haven't killed off Black Widow, Hawkeye, Nick Fury, Falcon, War Machine, Drax etc. And we all know they wouldn't. Of course that doesn't count, that was an apocalyptic vision. It's not something that has actually happened so they never died. The X-men did actually die. Yeah they came back because of an alternate timeline but they still died. Then they were all dead again by Logan. Other major characters die actually die on screen. This really isn't a valid criticism. Like, not even a little. A movie's quality has nothing to do with its rating, so complaining that his studio won't make a certain type of movie really has no merit at all. |
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