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Post by Toasted Cheese on Nov 25, 2017 8:15:49 GMT
Interesting sequel that works for the most part, but compared to the original and Part 3, it could also be considered pretty meh! The homoeroticism is a nice touch\spin: Mark Patton gives a decent performance: There are 3 excellent set pieces for sure, with Schneider's and Grady's death scenes and the Freddy party crash sequence. If I recall correctly, there are only male victims too. There are also some good quotable Freddy lines, without sounding like the later parody that he did in the other sequels.
Kim Myers was a poor choice for leading lady though and because she couldn't really act, she overacts. When Lisa takes Jesse to the factory\mill where Freddy used to work to see if he can sense something, and there is a noise coming from the cabinet, all that's there is a cute un-scary rat inside. Her reaction and how she clings to Jesse is pathetic. This is the directors fault though, for a weak and poorly executed sequence. Surely they could have come up with something a little more nightmarish, like when she goes back the mill looking for Jesse.
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Post by FridayOnElmStreet on Nov 26, 2017 3:27:22 GMT
9/10 I always very much liked it. I never noticed the whole gay subtext untll it was pointed out. Even then I didnt care. The look of Freddy is pretty freaky here.  |
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Nov 26, 2017 3:55:53 GMT
9/10 I always very much liked it. I never noticed the whole gay subtext untll it was pointed out. Even then I didnt care. The look of Freddy is pretty freaky here. Freddy had a creepy glistening look to him here. I guess the gay subtext is something that one has to be honed into, especially if one is homo. It was very obvious here with Schneider's character and Patton did have a gay vibe about him that I picked up on, not to mention the sweaty body and underwear shots. The film could also be pegged as a coming out allegory. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2017 9:20:34 GMT
Thought it was a hideous follow up.
That being said - I don't think the original 'NOES' has held up well over the years although it does have a few creepy scenes.
Enjoyed '3' though.
The protagonist was such an uninteresting character IMO and hard to root for (like the red headed chick in later sequels) - it's different though - when was the last time a slasher flick had a male as the lead Protagonist. I guess one could argue the F13th remake.....
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Nov 27, 2017 12:02:14 GMT
Thought it was a hideous follow up.
That being said - I don't think the original 'NOES' has held up well over the years although it does have a few creepy scenes. Enjoyed '3' though. The protagonist was such an uninteresting character IMO and hard to root for (like the red headed chick in later sequels) - it's different though - when was the last time a slasher flick had a male as the lead Protagonist. I guess one could argue the F13th remake..... As a sequel, to what could be perhaps be considered a flawed but still effective and creepy original, I found it's virtues outweighed it's weaknesses. It was still original in it's own right and I certainly didn't find Mark Patton as Jesse, or Robert Rustler as Grady hideous.....far from it. This is only from the perception of a gay guy though and I liked the subtext. Compared to Part 3 though, which was more of a direct sequel or tie in to the first, it was pretty average. Not as bad as Part 5 though. |
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Post by Marv on Nov 27, 2017 13:11:05 GMT
Freddy is still scary in it. I thought the story was fine and there's a few scenes that stick with you afterward. It tried something a little different with the possession angle but I didn't think it was bad. I like it better than parts 5 and 6...and maybe even 4.
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Post by Reynard on Nov 27, 2017 18:55:03 GMT
I appreciate this film's "less is more" approach to Freddy's character. Sequels usually show more of the monster while Freddy's Revenge shows even less of him than Craven's original. There's like 30-40 minutes between "kill for me" scene and Freddy's next appearance, with plot developments about Jesse's personal problems and weird poltergeist phenomena taking all time between them.
However there are all kinds of problems that are hard to fully forgive. Acting ranges from good to wooden and laughable, Freddy's burnt face make-up looks a bit "off" and nowhere near as good as in the original, and the steel mill finale is weak as hell. Sexual subtext is interesting but also so obvious that it often feels more like a parody. Nightmare 1 was much more subtle about all the sexual stuff in it. Soundtrack is interesting at least. Not much melody, more like a soundscape. Very unusual for its time.
I like it that dreams and reality are still blurred in this. Jesse's nightly trip into a club and the sport teacher's death turning out to be a real thing and not a nightmare was quite a disturbing surprise when I first watched this. Nightmare 3 was the first one where it was very easy to tell dreams and reality apart, and I think the series lost much of its serious horror appeal with that approach, becoming more like a dark fantasy. So, Freddy's Revenge is a mixed bag but I prefer it to parts 4-6 at least.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2017 20:15:23 GMT
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Nov 27, 2017 23:53:01 GMT
I appreciate this film's "less is more" approach to Freddy's character. Sequels usually show more of the monster while Freddy's Revenge shows even less of him than Craven's original. There's like 30-40 minutes between "kill for me" scene and Freddy's next appearance, with plot developments about Jesse's personal problems and weird poltergeist phenomena taking all time between them. However there are all kinds of problems that are hard to fully forgive. Acting ranges from good to wooden and laughable, Freddy's burnt face make-up looks a bit "off" and nowhere near as good as in the original, and the steel mill finale is weak as hell. Sexual subtext is interesting but also so obvious that it often feels more like a parody. Nightmare 1 was much more subtle about all the sexual stuff in it. Soundtrack is interesting at least. Not much melody, more like a soundscape. Very unusual for its time. I like it that dreams and reality are still blurred in this. Jesse's nightly trip into a club and the sport teacher's death turning out to be a real thing and not a nightmare was quite a disturbing surprise when I first watched this. Nightmare 3 was the first one where it was very easy to tell dreams and reality apart, and I think the series lost much of its serious horror appeal with that approach, becoming more like a dark fantasy. So, Freddy's Revenge is a mixed bag but I prefer it to parts 4-6 at least. If Craven had been involved, it may have fixed up more of it's problems. In spite of some of it's erratic presentation and like I already mentioned, Kim Myers was awful, most of it still works and that would be due to the blurring the lines between dreams and reality. Yes, the finale is a bit unexciting and more thought could have been put into this. I feel though, that the opening sequence on the school bus which drives off into the desert and turns into hell is excellent. This was a nifty and clever thought out sequence, the rest of the film has fits and starts after that and if viewed as a coming out allegory, it really needed more dramatic strength and presence. The first did have stronger performances all round. |
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Post by Reynard on Nov 28, 2017 0:50:42 GMT
I feel though, that the opening sequence on the school bus which drives off into the desert and turns into hell is excellent. Yeah that's easily my favorite scene. Something that I thought was very clever is that Jesse doesn't look like himself in this first nightmare, with that greasy black hair and all. Not that anyone who sees the movie for the first time could know, since it's the opening scene, so it's quite a surprise when he walks down the stairs after waking up and looks really different than in his dream. Another scene that I really liked was that where Jesse and his girlfriend find Nancy's diary and read the last few pages from it. Very ominous. Some of the phenomena scenes are unintentionally funny. I can't take a scene with evil tennis balls attacking a guy seriously. However the scene were Jesse wakes up "in heat" (very funny...) and the room is literally melting was quite effective. Freddy's steel claws growing straight out of his fingers was neat too. |
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Nov 28, 2017 1:31:46 GMT
I feel though, that the opening sequence on the school bus which drives off into the desert and turns into hell is excellent. Yeah that's easily my favorite scene. Something that I thought was very clever is that Jesse doesn't look like himself in this first nightmare, with that greasy black hair and all. Not that anyone who sees the movie for the first time could know, since it's the opening scene, so it's quite a surprise when he walks down the stairs after waking up and looks really different than in his dream. Another scene that I really liked was that where Jesse and his girlfriend find Nancy's diary and read the last few pages from it. Very ominous. Some of the phenomena scenes are unintentionally funny. I can't take a scene with evil tennis balls attacking a guy seriously. However the scene were Jesse wakes up "in heat" (very funny...) and the room is literally melting was quite effective. Freddy's steel claws growing straight out of his fingers was neat too. Like you have mentioned, I also find the look of Jesse very effective in the opening nightmare sequence, as to how he is in reality. They did a good job here. Overall, with what you have mentioned, they did an acceptable job with what they had to work with, even if some of it is eye rolling as well. |
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Post by rateater on Nov 28, 2017 5:10:27 GMT
this is my favorite sequel because it was the scariest in my opinion. the film is a little odd, bleak and dream like.
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Post by jamesbamesy on Nov 29, 2017 23:39:44 GMT
Honestly, I thought this film was okay. Sure, it's crazy to imagine that this was the first sequel when you compare it to the other films (especially Dream Warriors, which is a far more definitive sequel to Nightmare 1) and that it kind of ruined the concept of Freddy by taking him out of the dream world, but it's a harmless sequel. It at least has a lot of the same tones in the original and Freddy is still quite creepy for the most part. It's definitely the black sheep of the franchise, though. A 6/10 is what I give it.
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Nov 30, 2017 23:42:44 GMT
Honestly, I thought this film was okay. Sure, it's crazy to imagine that this was the first sequel when you compare it to the other films (especially Dream Warriors, which is a far more definitive sequel to Nightmare 1) and that it kind of ruined the concept of Freddy by taking him out of the dream world, but it's a harmless sequel. It at least has a lot of the same tones in the original and Freddy is still quite creepy for the most part. It's definitely the black sheep of the franchise, though. A 6/10 is what I give it. The film was also alluding to the possession of Jesse by Freddy, therefore, Jesse would have been the one doing the actual killing and not Freddy. He was the only one with the nightmares and Freddy's victims were dying in reality, not their own dream state. This makes it stand out somewhat differently to the approach used in the first, and after Schneider's and Grady's deaths, we see a human Jesse with Freddy's finger knives which he found in the boiler in his house basement. Nancy did also bring Freddy out of her dream state into reality in the first so she could defeat him. I thought this was one of the weakest parts of the first entry, with all those silly traps and devices she concocted in such a short amount of time and then we just have Freddy running around comically after her in the house getting caught up in them. It was a creepier and better sequence in 2, with Freddy\Jesse attacking the teens at the pool party, compared to the climax of the first. It then got a bit weak again, with the steelworks sequence. The ending of both film's doesn't make much sense either, with the dream state sequences. As we hear and learn in 2 and 3 though, Nancy was screwed up, and as for Jesse, well he would have been arrested and would not be freed from the evil he inflicted via Freddy. Jesse's gf's motivations were also ambiguous. Did she want him to fight his homosexuality so he would desire her, or was she just helping him to come out and accept who he was? At least Part 3, made a more solid attempt with the dream state sequences and it was a nice touch how they all went into together to defeat Freddy and "only within" the dream state. With a little help from Neil and Nancy's dad of course. It all came across as so much more effective and still manged to be fresh and original. |
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Post by jamesbamesy on Dec 1, 2017 0:46:39 GMT
Honestly, I thought this film was okay. Sure, it's crazy to imagine that this was the first sequel when you compare it to the other films (especially Dream Warriors, which is a far more definitive sequel to Nightmare 1) and that it kind of ruined the concept of Freddy by taking him out of the dream world, but it's a harmless sequel. It at least has a lot of the same tones in the original and Freddy is still quite creepy for the most part. It's definitely the black sheep of the franchise, though. A 6/10 is what I give it. The film was also alluding to the possession of Jesse by Freddy, therefore, Jesse would have been the one doing the actual killing and not Freddy. He was the only one with the nightmares and Freddy's victims were dying in reality, not their own dream state. This makes it stand out somewhat differently to the approach used in the first, and after Schneider's and Grady's deaths, we see a human Jesse with Freddy's finger knives which he found in the boiler in his house basement. Nancy did also bring Freddy out of her dream state into reality in the first so she could defeat him. I thought this was one of the weakest parts of the first entry, with all those silly traps and devices she concocted in such a short amount of time and then we just have Freddy running around comically after her in the house getting caught up in them. It was a creepier and better sequence in 2, with Freddy\Jesse attacking the teens at the pool party, compared to the climax of the first. It then got a bit weak again, with the steelworks sequence.The ending of both film's doesn't make much sense either, with the dream state sequences. As we hear and learn in 2 and 3 though, Nancy was screwed up, and as for Jesse, well he would have been arrested and would not be freed from the evil he inflicted via Freddy. Jesse's gf's motivations were also ambiguous. Did she want him to fight his homosexuality so he would desire her, or was she just helping him to come out and accept who he was? At least Part 3, made a more solid attempt with the dream state sequences and it was a nice touch how they all went into together to defeat Freddy and "only within" the dream state. With a little help from Neil and Nancy's dad of course. It all came across as so much more effective and still manged to be fresh and original. Yeah, I guess it was nice to see him all powerful in the real world. In a way, it showed that Freddy is no wimp at all, and can be a pretty dangerous monster in both worlds. It makes him all the more unstoppable because of that. It's absolutely cringeworthy to think that this entire time, Part 2 was all about Jesse fighting his homosexuality. Hence, Freddy is essentially Jesse's gayness.  |
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Post by Raimo47 on Dec 1, 2017 0:56:48 GMT
2/10. Definitely the worst sequel.
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Dec 1, 2017 1:01:46 GMT
The film was also alluding to the possession of Jesse by Freddy, therefore, Jesse would have been the one doing the actual killing and not Freddy. He was the only one with the nightmares and Freddy's victims were dying in reality, not their own dream state. This makes it stand out somewhat differently to the approach used in the first, and after Schneider's and Grady's deaths, we see a human Jesse with Freddy's finger knives which he found in the boiler in his house basement. Nancy did also bring Freddy out of her dream state into reality in the first so she could defeat him. I thought this was one of the weakest parts of the first entry, with all those silly traps and devices she concocted in such a short amount of time and then we just have Freddy running around comically after her in the house getting caught up in them. It was a creepier and better sequence in 2, with Freddy\Jesse attacking the teens at the pool party, compared to the climax of the first. It then got a bit weak again, with the steelworks sequence.The ending of both film's doesn't make much sense either, with the dream state sequences. As we hear and learn in 2 and 3 though, Nancy was screwed up, and as for Jesse, well he would have been arrested and would not be freed from the evil he inflicted via Freddy. Jesse's gf's motivations were also ambiguous. Did she want him to fight his homosexuality so he would desire her, or was she just helping him to come out and accept who he was? At least Part 3, made a more solid attempt with the dream state sequences and it was a nice touch how they all went into together to defeat Freddy and "only within" the dream state. With a little help from Neil and Nancy's dad of course. It all came across as so much more effective and still manged to be fresh and original. Yeah, I guess it was nice to see him all powerful in the real world. In a way, it showed that Freddy is no wimp at all, and can be a pretty dangerous monster in both worlds. It makes him all the more unstoppable because of that. It's absolutely cringeworthy to think that this entire time, Part 2 was all about Jesse fighting his homosexuality. Hence, Freddy is essentially Jesse's gayness.  I didn't mind that gay touch, being gay myself, and it was an interesting subtext and should not really be viewed as subversive. That only endorses homophobia and the scorn and contempt many still feel for it. It wasn't exactly subtle, but confusingly handled, so not exactly obvious to those who might take their sexuality for granted. It deliberately blurred the line, so as not to make people cringe about Jesse's sexuality... "Oh my Gosh, he likes dudes! That is more shocking than the graphic violence and horror portrayed before me".  |
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Post by Reynard on Dec 1, 2017 1:36:27 GMT
I've never been sure what Nightmare 2 is exactly trying to say. So was Jesse a homosexual struggling to come out of the closet, confused bisexual or a straight guy who's just afraid that he might be gay? Gay subtext is quite obvious but where it is supposed to go isn't. It's quite easy to read the steelworks final so that Jesse is actually straight/bi who turned his attention to men for a while out of fear of rejection by women. This would make sense given the school buss opening nightmare (girls laughing at Jesse) and his girlfriend's behavior during the steelworks finale. Anyway, it wasn't very well handled.
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Dec 1, 2017 7:25:37 GMT
I've never been sure what Nightmare 2 is exactly trying to say. So was Jesse a homosexual struggling to come out of the closet, confused bisexual or a straight guy who's just afraid that he might be gay? Gay subtext is quite obvious but where it is supposed to go isn't. It's quite easy to read the steelworks final so that Jesse is actually straight/bi who turned his attention to men for a while out of fear of rejection by women. This would make sense given the school buss opening nightmare (girls laughing at Jesse) and his girlfriend's behavior during the steelworks finale. Anyway, it wasn't very well handled. They didn't want to put it in concrete terms, that is why it wasn't well handled. My gaydar rang mega bells with Mark Patton playing Jesse, so the fact that the lead actor was gay, piqued my interest in his character and he was good looking. Like mentioned earlier, they did a great but simple job with how they made him look in the open nightmare sequence, compared to how he really looked. The film also didn't shy away from the gay thing with Schneider's character or the homoeroticism involving Grady and Jesse either.
Both Schneider and Grady were jerks, but their death scenes were still disturbing and Robert Rustler did a good job a portraying his fear of Freddy\Jesse during the transformation scene. I'd say Jesse was gay and confused, but like many young men struggling to come to terms with their sexuality in a "heterosexist" society, he was making an attempt to play the straight game, as that is the accepted norm. He struggled to get with Lisa, as in a sense, Freddy was also reminding him of who he was and plays on people's fear. Lisa was there to make Jesse look normal. She kept telling Jesse to fight it though, as though it was a metaphor to kill the homo and get with her.
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Post by masterofallgoons on Dec 1, 2017 21:41:51 GMT
I remember posting about this movie a little while back in some detail. My sentiments are basicslly that outside of some strengths, like the opening sequence and some affective effects, it's a pretty ludicrous and and amateurish entry that mostly makes me laugh at it more than anything else.
I think the idea of a teen character fearing that he is gay and having-a-secret-monster-inside-of-him angle could have really been an interesting and thoughtful approach, but interesting and thoughtful are not terms I would use to describe the execution of this film.
They didn't have the conviction to actually go with that, so they skirted around it by not making him literally gay within the text of the movie and just made everything around him not so subtly homoerotic.
I believe the director denies that he was trying to explore gay themes. How he defends the idea that this kid sneaks put of his house at night and can't help but to secretly wander into an s&m leather club, runs into his sadist gym teacher, follows him back to school, ties him up in this showers, strips him naked, and brutally towel whips his bare ass would be beyond me then.
Even setting any sexual connotations completely aside, that sequence is one of the most absolutely ridiculously nonsensical series of events one could possibly come up with.
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