Into the Woods/Reunion

Nov 29, 2017 21:16:01 GMT PreachCaleb said:

Oh, Riley, we hardly knew ye. 

Riley's swan song out of the Buffyverse. As a fan, I was sad to see him go, but in retrospect, it's pretty obvious the writers just didn't know what to do with him. The whole getting fed on by vampires was weird, but it fit in nicely as a metaphor for cheating on a partner. And metaphors are what the show's always been good at.

It's still a good fake out at the end when Riley looks up and for a second we're led to believe Buffy will get to him in time. 

Once again, Buffy suffers the gut punch of having her boyfriend leave town as she watches. Poor girl. 


On to Angel now. Reunion. Wow, just wow. Another great episode and a fantastic follow up to The Trial. The pace of this episode almost from the very beginning is constantly driving forward. Angel needs to get to Darla before she wakes, then he needs to track down both Darla and Drusilla before they unleash hell in LA. He's frantic in his searches. 

The looks on Wesley and Cordy's faces when they learn Dru is in town are powerful. You can almost see the color drain from them as they realize their problems have literally just doubled. The gang working together to track down Dru and Darla is a nice bit of detective work. And kudos to Gunn for figuring out a plant nursery is what Dru had in mind. A great peak into how smart he actually is and is more than just the muscle of the group. 

We get Dru's first fight scene since Becoming as she and Angel battle over Darla's corpse. Darla and Dru's reunion is another great little scene. Again, the chemistry between the actors is just amazing. Darla and Dru really come across as two characters who hadn't seen each other in decades, yet they pick up right where they left off in their carnage. 

It's interesting that we never got full on present day reunion between the quartet. Whether it was season 2 of Buffy with Angel/Spike/Dru or season 2 of Angel (coincidence?!) with Angel/Darla/Dru, we never see all four together. 

The final act is another downer for the show. Angel is at his coldest. The look of utter apathy as Holland and Lilah, of all people, are practically begging for his help is chilling. DB can say so much with just a look, and this is his most IDGAF about you guys. My war is with Darla and Dru. 

The firing of the Angel Investigations crew was as shocking for the audience as it was for them. Angel is on his way to abandoning his mission. He's obsessed with war rather than helping the hopeless. He's at his lowest point and he'll remain there for several episodes. His dark arc is almost a precursor to Buffy's season-long depression later on. 

Can't wait for the next episodes. 

 First, I am so sorry, Caleb, it has taken me so long to respond to this! Reunion is one of my favorite Angel episodes, so I have been meaning to do this for a while.

Anyway, regarding Into the Woods, I did rewatch it especially for you Caleb so I could reply properly, lol. While I am not a Riley fan, I do not hate him. He is a good guy/character, I liked him more in season 4, and I liked that he was both normal and had the military training/knew of the supernatural world...is that a contradiction, lol? But I still don't get why he felt unloved or that he felt didn't have enough of Buffy's attention. Of course her attention would be more on her mother with her illness, and her duties as the Slayer, so her attention to him would, understandably, be lessoned. But in this very episode, Buffy made specific time for Riley once she knew her mother was ok and I felt that she was expressing her love for him. The cheating metaphor was used well though, I agree.

The ultimatum Riley gives Buffy is not something I am a fan of. I side more with her in her shock that he basically told her to give him a reason to stay or he's leaving when she had just caught him "cheating." Now, I do understand Xander's point, partially, about how Buffy may not have fully opened up to Riley, but it didn't seem nearly as bad to me from what I saw. And after Angel left, her bad experience with Parker, and then her mother's illness as well as the "introduction" of Dawn, she is allowed to shift her priorities and put Riley on the backburner for a bit. He should have been more understanding, or at the very least, have talked to Buffy about his problems with their relationship when he realized she didn't love him (as we found out when he told Xander), and see if they could have worked it out instead of giving her an ultimatum, in my opinion.

This extends to Xander's speech to Buffy at the end, where for me he comes off very self righteous; as though he has the moral high ground. Xander has made plenty of mistakes himself and lecturing Buffy as he did just didn't sit well with me. I get his point, and even agree with him to an extent, but the way it played out was not my cup of tea and is another example of my problems with Xander's character. I loved the heart to heart scene between Riley and Spike and the fake "staking." Poor Buffy indeed.

Now, on to Reunion....I agree with everything you said, Caleb!!! There is not much for me to add. WOW is right!

You are right; the episode is a great follow up to The Trial, and there is this urgency all throughout it.

I, too, am sad we never got to see all four of Angel, Spike, Darla, and Dru together in the present. Missed opportunity?

Angel and the wine cellar scene is one of my absolute favorite scenes on the show! It is so wonderful in a dark and chilling way! David was spot on, as were all the others.

Angel firing his crew was shocking and a the start of the low point for him, but I love this arc (not so much the next few episodes) and the journey it takes them all on.

Good catch that it is a precursor for Buffy's depression storyline! See, it's things like this that even though they are separate shows now, they are still connected on different levels. Brilliant writing, whether it was intentional or not! 

Mar 9, 2018 16:23:05 GMT PreachCaleb said:

Mar 9, 2018 7:19:05 GMT mmexis said:

But I think that was the point to make him cardboard (as Spike says). In the end, it was all a long set-up for Spike and to further reinforce to Buffy that she couldn't do "ordinary". While she longed for the normal life, it was not for her - not one aspect of it. Nothing about Buffy's life was "normal": Dawn was made up, her parents were separated [ok, maybe that was normal - lol], she had superpowers and was dealing with things beyond the ken of most people, she was living on a hellmouth, her friends were all supernatural in some way - barring Cordelia, but then, was she a friend?, , her second one was a douche and then we had cornfed he-man Riley. And, finally, as a teenager, she had her life planned out for her in direct opposition to most of her peers. I agree that the show needed another male. Lord knows Xander mentions it over and over.

I can understand that, and there does seem to be a lot of evidence to support that. I have no issue with a character being used to serve another or to further a storyline. 

I think the problem is that since Riley was a main character, it's jarring and a disservice to the character and actor to not fully flesh him out.

There was a lot that could've been done with Riley to keep him as Captain Cardboard in Buffy's life, yet still let him be a rounded out character. It would've made Into the Woods that much more tragic. As it stands, it really only affected Buffy. Had Riley been a more likable character, it would've affected the audience as well. I'm sure plenty were happy to seem him go and others just didn't really care, which is a shame and highlights the weaknesses in his story. 

And yes, another male on the show would've been great. Riley could've been a nice balance between Xander and Giles. Mature enough to be serious but young enough to still have fun. 

her first post-Angel boyfriend was killed

Scott Hope?

Yep, I agree. While on the one hand I don't mind Riley being Captain Cardboard as long as he was a well rounded character, but then on the other hand I thought he was "too normal." I know, contradiction, but I think Buffy needed someone who was aware of, and maybe could have been involved with, Buffy's supernatural world and yet give her some normalcy. Like if her love interest was a young Watcher/Watcher in training, knowledgeable about supernatural world, has some training in magic and combat but is not inherently magical. I don't know, but something along those lines. That is why I like Anya. She isn't just comic relief, and while she doesn't have a lot of fighting skills (as a human), she provides a lot of knowledge about demons, magic, and other supernatural things.

I, too, thought there should have been more male characters to help out Xander and Giles.

Funny that all of Buffy's main/significant love interests all have Captain names (running joke?): Captain Forehead = Angel, Captain Cardboard = Riley, and Captain Peroxide = Spike, lol!