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Post by scabab on Dec 2, 2017 4:36:36 GMT
Your words are laced with "you're an idiot." Of course I'm taking it personally. There's nothing personal about it....really. Ehhhh I don't think it's because anybody is spoiled. These movies are held to such a high standard and do many things right than anything that is consistently not up to that standard will be magnified. These villains wouldn't be pointed out in other movies but Marvel make better movies. If they can make great heroes then why can't they make great villains? They're not good villains aside from a few but they're not particularly bad either again except for a few. Solid would be more accurate, passable. But Darth Vader, The Terminator, Hans Gruber were anything but that. They are iconic, memorable and revolutionary villain, considered the best in cinema. There's no comparison to be had. The Marvel villains don't have to be as good as those but they should strive to be better. Vulture should be the standard at the least. |
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Post by Nicko's Nose on Dec 2, 2017 4:39:43 GMT
weirdraptor, you should change your name to MCU-Fan if you know what I mean.
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Post by scabab on Dec 2, 2017 4:44:33 GMT
Like we're arguing, Gruber wasn't much without Rickman (and in terms of depth, hasn't got much on MCU villains you keep bringing up) and Vader only became truly iconic when he stuck around for more than 1 movie. Vader's case is also helped by Luke Skywalker being a bland protagonist. But Alan Rickman is Hans Gruber. Nobody knows what Hans Gruber is like without him. You wouldn't take Harrison Ford out of Indiana Jones would you? Hans Gruber has character depth. That's not the same as backstory. There were a lot of sides to his character as was pointed out. Marvel villains don't often have this going for them because they're one dimensional with generic goals being that they don't have the screentime to do much of anything else. This is again why Loki has always been so popular because there's a lot to his character when compared to say Malekith. You also again assume when Darth Vader became iconic. You probably weren't even born at the time those movies released so how would you know when the character became iconic? |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2017 4:46:51 GMT
Your words are laced with "you're an idiot." Of course I'm taking it personally. There's nothing personal about it....really. Ehhhh I don't think it's because anybody is spoiled. These movies are held to such a high standard and do many things right than anything that is consistently not up to that standard will be magnified. These villains wouldn't be pointed out in other movies but Marvel make better movies. If they can make great heroes then why can't they make great villains? They're not good villains aside from a few but they're not particularly bad either again except for a few. Solid would be more accurate, passable. But Darth Vader, The Terminator, Hans Gruber were anything but that. They are iconic, memorable and revolutionary villain, considered the best in cinema. There's no comparison to be had. The Marvel villains don't have to be as good as those but they should strive to be better. Vulture should be the standard at the least. No, they're spoiled. The villains are fine. They are up to standard, but everyone seems to think that every comic book movie villain should either be The Joker or Magneto. Marvel does make great villains. They're just not the stars of the show. They are good villains. People are just being unreasonable. Yes, there is. Marvel's villains are at the standard they set. They don't have to strive to be better. Their villains are fine as is. People just like to bitch. Vulture isn't even the best MCU villain. Loki and Ultron are. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2017 4:50:33 GMT
Like we're arguing, Gruber wasn't much without Rickman (and in terms of depth, hasn't got much on MCU villains you keep bringing up) and Vader only became truly iconic when he stuck around for more than 1 movie. Vader's case is also helped by Luke Skywalker being a bland protagonist. But Alan Rickman is Hans Gruber. Nobody knows what Hans Gruber is like without him. You wouldn't take Harrison Ford out of Indiana Jones would you? Hans Gruber has character depth. That's not the same as backstory. There were a lot of sides to his character as was pointed out. Marvel villains don't often have this going for them because they're one dimensional with generic goals being that they don't have the screentime to do much of anything else. This is again why Loki has always been so popular because there's a lot to his character when compared to say Malekith. You also again assume when Darth Vader became iconic. You probably weren't even born at the time those movies released so how would you know when the character became iconic? Actually, I'd have happily taken Tom Selleck as Indie, too. Ford doesn't need to play Indie. The Young Indiana Jones stuff proves that. Actually Marvel's villains' goals are often very grounded and real. You don't think there are people like Obadiah Stane out there? |
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Post by scabab on Dec 2, 2017 5:02:55 GMT
@weirdraptor
The villains being fine isn't good enough in this series anymore. After 20 movies people don't want the ultimate villain to just be fine.
People already were disappointed with Ultron, that doesn't need to happen again more so actually with all the build up.
And yeah Obadiah Stane was pretty good. Until the Iron Monger which again is the other Marvel complaint that the villains keep being evil counterparts of the good guys.
Iron Monger and Whiplash were other guys in armoured suits. Abomination was another green monster. Red Skull and Winter Solider are other super soldiers. Yellow Jacket is another guy in a shrinking suit. Kaecilius is another sorcerer and now you've got Black Panther and the villain and I can't even believe this one....is another guy in a Black Panther suit.
Oh all the possibilities...an evil Black Panther, come on now.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2017 5:13:16 GMT
@weirdraptor The villains being fine isn't good enough in this series anymore. After 20 movies people don't want the ultimate villain to just be fine. People already were disappointed with Ultron, that doesn't need to happen again more so actually with all the build up. And yeah Obadiah Stane was pretty good. Until the Iron Monger which again is the other Marvel complaint that the villains keep being evil counterparts of the good guys. Iron Monger and Whiplash were other guys in armoured suits. Abomination was another green monster. Red Skull and Winter Solider are other super soldiers. Yellow Jacket is another guy in a shrinking suit. Kaecilius is another sorcerer and now you've got Black Panther and the villain and I can't even believe this one....is another guy in a Black Panther suit. Oh all the possibilities...an evil Black Panther, come on now. Yes, they are. No one in real life is complaining about Marvel's villains. Just the internet. People are too bitchy. Ultron was a great villain. I hope we see more of his type. He lived up to all the build-up. There's nothing wrong with Iron Monger. There's nothing wrong with having the hero face a dark counterpart of himself. In fact, it happens all the time in the comics. Er, The Red Skull is Captain America's iconic villain. He kind of HAD to be the villain of the first Cap film. And The Winter Soldier/Bucky is another major part of Cap's storylines. He also kind of had to show up. And wait, I thought you liked Bucky. Yeah, it kind of went without saying that Doctor Strange would be facing other magic users. There's nothing wrong with evil Black Panthere. People are seem excited. |
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Post by Spooky Ghost Ackbar on Dec 2, 2017 5:54:34 GMT
As a quick break from this lively discussion, allow me to add this totally and utterly irrelevant interlude:
GIVVE HAWKEYE THE HEMLET!!!!!!!!!!3
And now, please continue....
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Post by DC-Fan on Dec 2, 2017 7:12:14 GMT
@weirdraptor Obadiah Stane was pretty good. Until the Iron Monger which again is the other Marvel complaint that the villains keep being evil counterparts of the good guys. Iron Monger and Whiplash were other guys in armoured suits. Abomination was another green monster. Red Skull and Winter Solider are other super soldiers. Yellow Jacket is another guy in a shrinking suit. Kaecilius is another sorcerer and now you've got Black Panther and the villain and I can't even believe this one....is another guy in a Black Panther suit. Oh all the possibilities...an evil Black Panther, come on now. So Black Panther fights an evil version of himself? Seriously? And MCU fans still try to claim that MCU isn't formulaic?
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Post by justanaveragejoe on Dec 2, 2017 7:30:42 GMT
@weirdraptor Obadiah Stane was pretty good. Until the Iron Monger which again is the other Marvel complaint that the villains keep being evil counterparts of the good guys. Iron Monger and Whiplash were other guys in armoured suits. Abomination was another green monster. Red Skull and Winter Solider are other super soldiers. Yellow Jacket is another guy in a shrinking suit. Kaecilius is another sorcerer and now you've got Black Panther and the villain and I can't even believe this one....is another guy in a Black Panther suit. Oh all the possibilities...an evil Black Panther, come on now. So Black Panther fights an evil version of himself? Seriously? And MCU fans still try to claim that MCU isn't formulaic?
Didn't Superman, a Kyrptonian fight another evil Kyrptonian? Didn't Wonder Woman, a goddess, fight another god? |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2017 7:31:28 GMT
So Black Panther fights an evil version of himself? Seriously? And MCU fans still try to claim that MCU isn't formulaic?
Didn't Superman, a Kyrptonian fight another evil Kyrptonian? Didn't Wonder Woman, a goddess, fight another god? Ouchie. |
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Post by Nicko's Nose on Dec 2, 2017 7:42:56 GMT
It’s totally different d00ds!
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Dec 2, 2017 10:28:37 GMT
@weirdraptor Obadiah Stane was pretty good. Until the Iron Monger which again is the other Marvel complaint that the villains keep being evil counterparts of the good guys. Iron Monger and Whiplash were other guys in armoured suits. Abomination was another green monster. Red Skull and Winter Solider are other super soldiers. Yellow Jacket is another guy in a shrinking suit. Kaecilius is another sorcerer and now you've got Black Panther and the villain and I can't even believe this one....is another guy in a Black Panther suit. Oh all the possibilities...an evil Black Panther, come on now. So Black Panther fights an evil version of himself? Seriously? And MCU fans still try to claim that MCU isn't formulaic?
It's like CBM in general follow a formulaic road. MCU, DCEU, Foxmen. |
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Post by formersamhmd on Dec 2, 2017 12:49:59 GMT
But Alan Rickman is Hans Gruber. Nobody knows what Hans Gruber is like without him. You wouldn't take Harrison Ford out of Indiana Jones would you? That's like saying only Connery could be Bond. So basically this boils down to the movie not being about the villain. Film Analytical Skills. |
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Post by formersamhmd on Dec 2, 2017 12:50:50 GMT
@weirdraptor Obadiah Stane was pretty good. Until the Iron Monger which again is the other Marvel complaint that the villains keep being evil counterparts of the good guys. Iron Monger and Whiplash were other guys in armoured suits. Abomination was another green monster. Red Skull and Winter Solider are other super soldiers. Yellow Jacket is another guy in a shrinking suit. Kaecilius is another sorcerer and now you've got Black Panther and the villain and I can't even believe this one....is another guy in a Black Panther suit. Oh all the possibilities...an evil Black Panther, come on now. So Black Panther fights an evil version of himself? Seriously? And MCU fans still try to claim that MCU isn't formulaic?
You must seriously hate Star Wars, after all the villains there were evil versions of Luke (evil Force Users). |
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Post by scabab on Dec 2, 2017 15:53:16 GMT
Didn't Superman, a Kyrptonian fight another evil Kyrptonian? Didn't Wonder Woman, a goddess, fight another god? I'm not 100% sure but I'm pretty sure that Wonder Woman isn't a God in the movie. She was created by a God like all the Amazon's but she's not like Zeus or Ares. It's also different with Black Panther because the character in the comics looks like this  I'm looking on the Google images and I don't see him wearing a Black Panther suit. So that looks like it might just be a movie thing which isn't the best idea because there's already been so many villains that have been an evil counter part of the hero. |
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Post by scabab on Dec 2, 2017 16:07:53 GMT
Yes, they are. No one in real life is complaining about Marvel's villains. Just the internet. People are too bitchy. Ultron was a great villain. I hope we see more of his type. He lived up to all the build-up. There's nothing wrong with Iron Monger. There's nothing wrong with having the hero face a dark counterpart of himself. In fact, it happens all the time in the comics. Er, The Red Skull is Captain America's iconic villain. He kind of HAD to be the villain of the first Cap film. And The Winter Soldier/Bucky is another major part of Cap's storylines. He also kind of had to show up. And wait, I thought you liked Bucky. Yeah, it kind of went without saying that Doctor Strange would be facing other magic users. There's nothing wrong with evil Black Panthers. People are seem excited. Well the internet is what you have to go on, you don't really get to hear what many people have to say about them on the street. The odd evil counterpart is ok but it seems like the majority of villains in the MCU fit that bill. It's true that they did have to go with Red Skull and Winter Soldier really is a good villain but it does add to the overall flaw. Yellow Jacket wasn't even a villain in the comic. So it's as though they made him a villain just because he has the same power. Now with Killmonger, he doesn't wear a Black Panther suit, he has his own completely unique suit but in the movie he's just wearing the Black Panther suit. |
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Dec 2, 2017 16:29:52 GMT
Yes, they are. No one in real life is complaining about Marvel's villains. Just the internet. People are too bitchy. Ultron was a great villain. I hope we see more of his type. He lived up to all the build-up. There's nothing wrong with Iron Monger. There's nothing wrong with having the hero face a dark counterpart of himself. In fact, it happens all the time in the comics. Er, The Red Skull is Captain America's iconic villain. He kind of HAD to be the villain of the first Cap film. And The Winter Soldier/Bucky is another major part of Cap's storylines. He also kind of had to show up. And wait, I thought you liked Bucky. Yeah, it kind of went without saying that Doctor Strange would be facing other magic users. There's nothing wrong with evil Black Panthers. People are seem excited. Well the internet is what you have to go on, you don't really get to hear what many people have to say about them on the street. The odd evil counterpart is ok but it seems like the majority of villains in the MCU fit that bill. It's true that they did have to go with Red Skull and Winter Soldier really is a good villain but it does add to the overall flaw. Yellow Jacket wasn't even a villain in the comic. So it's as though they made him a villain just because he has the same power. Now with Killmonger, he doesn't wear a Black Panther suit, he has his own completely unique suit but in the movie he's just wearing the Black Panther suit. It is weird what they're doing with killmonger bit maybe it'll make sense in the film? Context is important! |
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Post by formersamhmd on Dec 2, 2017 16:36:46 GMT
Didn't Superman, a Kyrptonian fight another evil Kyrptonian? Didn't Wonder Woman, a goddess, fight another god? I'm not 100% sure but I'm pretty sure that Wonder Woman isn't a God in the movie. She was created by a God like all the Amazon's but she's not like Zeus or Ares. Remember that whole "Only a God can kill another God" thing they kept repeating? It was to make it clear that Diana was considered to be a "God" level being.
Of course, that was messed up a bit by how she couldn't beat Steppenwolf on her own in JL but DC's always had that problem.
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Dec 2, 2017 16:45:40 GMT
I'm not 100% sure but I'm pretty sure that Wonder Woman isn't a God in the movie. She was created by a God like all the Amazon's but she's not like Zeus or Ares. Remember that whole "Only a God can kill another God" thing they kept repeating? It was to make it clear that Diana was considered to be a "God" level being.
Of course, that was messed up a bit by how she couldn't beat Steppenwolf on her own in JL but DC's always had that problem.
I mean if they had her solo Steppenwolf there wouldn't be a need for the Justice League. It would be like if Marvel had Thor solo the entire alien army in The Avengers. |
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