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Post by scabab on Dec 2, 2017 16:46:18 GMT
Remember that whole "Only a God can kill another God" thing they kept repeating? It was to make it clear that Diana was considered to be a "God" level being. [/p]
Of course, that was messed up a bit by how she couldn't beat Steppenwolf on her own in JL but DC's always had that problem.
[/quote] I actually can't, I haven't seen the movie since June. I do recall the movie having the explanation that in the past, Ares killed all the Gods, including Zeus. Wonder Woman was just made by a God, so she might be a Demi God perhaps but otherwise I thought she was just an Amazon. She would be God level though. Steppenwolf would just be above that level which makes sense seeing as it took the Gods and all the others in the past to drive him off. Superman would then be above that level.
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Post by formersamhmd on Dec 2, 2017 17:00:57 GMT
She would be God level though. Steppenwolf would just be above that level which makes sense seeing as it took the Gods and all the others in the past to drive him off. Too bad he never showed himself to be that kind of threat in JL. If anything, it made the others look weak that it took all of them to drive him off before. Ares seemed more powerful than Steppenwolf (of course, he only lost because of stupidity in using a weapon that had little chance of hurting Diana). This is what I'm getting at. WW was able to fight Doomsday, a being apparently on par with Superman, yet she couldn't deal similar damage to Steppenwolf who was weaker than Superman. Very inconsistent power levels.
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Post by formersamhmd on Dec 2, 2017 17:02:12 GMT
Remember that whole "Only a God can kill another God" thing they kept repeating? It was to make it clear that Diana was considered to be a "God" level being.
Of course, that was messed up a bit by how she couldn't beat Steppenwolf on her own in JL but DC's always had that problem.
I mean if they had her solo Steppenwolf there wouldn't be a need for the Justice League. It would be like if Marvel had Thor solo the entire alien army in The Avengers. Then they shouldn't have shown her to be pretty much invincible in her own movie and then use someone she should've been able to beat on her own for the JL's big villain.
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Post by scabab on Dec 2, 2017 17:12:39 GMT
Too bad he never showed himself to be that kind of threat in JL. If anything, it made the others look weak that it took all of them to drive him off before. How wasn't he? He mowed down the Amazons. Beat down Aquaman. Beat down Wonder Woman and forced the Justice League to retreat. They had to revive Superman because they were no match for him altogether. In the end he fought Aquaman and Wonder Woman at the same time and was still winning. It was only Superman that made him look like a chump. Without him they wouldn't have been able to stop him. She fought him but was still losing just the same. Superman was also losing against Doomsday, he was clearly overpowered at one point. Doomsday > Superman > Steppenwolf > Wonder Woman. Plus there's also people saying that Superman came back stronger because of the mother box, something that happened in the comics but I don't know anything about that.
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Post by formersamhmd on Dec 2, 2017 17:22:01 GMT
How wasn't he? He mowed down the Amazons. Beat down Aquaman. Beat down Wonder Woman and forced the Justice League to retreat. Aquaman has no real strength gauge in these movies, neither do the Amazons (who died to WWI weapons). WW seemed depowered in JL compared to how she was in the fight with Doomsday. Which means he was as strong as Doomsday...but then he lost so handily to Superman. And if Steppenwolf could fight WW to a standstill, he was as strong as Doomsday...which means he wouldn't have been a chump against Superman. Nothing suggests that, though.
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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Dec 2, 2017 17:32:23 GMT
There's probably an echo chamber of media shills around the Marvel movies--and/or a lot of the fans of the movies are too young to remember when movie villains posed a threat. I.e. Scorpio in Dirty Harry.
The villains pose no threat in Marvel movies (except Jeff Bridges in the first Iron Man and maybe Loki in the first Thor). They tell jokes, and there is no sense of them posing any real danger.
Hans Gruber joked around--maybe a little too much, but he was threatening enough when necessary.
Lex Luthor was joking around for much of Superman the Movie but when he brings out the kryptonite it gets suspenseful. Zod was threatening.
I am not a fan of Ledger's Joker but he did do things that posed a danger and had lethal consequences.
In the X-men movies, Stryker and Magneto are threatening. They can be humorous but its not in a way that kills suspense like the Disney movies do.
Iron Man 3 was a situation where they had created a suspenseful villain in the Mandarin but they ruined it due to their PC SJW agenda (cant have a non white Muslim bad guy like in real life).
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Post by formersamhmd on Dec 2, 2017 17:36:56 GMT
The villains pose no threat in Marvel movies (except Jeff Bridges in the first Iron Man and maybe Loki in the first Thor). They tell jokes, and there is no sense of them posing any real danger. Because the movie people are nice enough to let us know about the future films, so we already know the heroes and supporting characters won't die. It helps when you make the villain the real star of the movie and the hero is little more than a cipher who opposes them. Or...because they wanted to tell a story about how easily people can be mislead to see "The Foreigner" as the bad guy rather than see the evils within their own society.
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Dec 2, 2017 17:37:12 GMT
I mean if they had her solo Steppenwolf there wouldn't be a need for the Justice League. It would be like if Marvel had Thor solo the entire alien army in The Avengers. Then they shouldn't have shown her to be pretty much invincible in her own movie and then use someone she should've been able to beat on her own for the JL's big villain. Was she invincible? I could have sworn she got her ass kicked by Ares at the start of the fight, before she went all SSJ on Ares. Seriously Patty Jenkins should direct a Dragon Ball movie. It's not like she could do any worse than Dragon Ball Evolution!
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Post by formersamhmd on Dec 2, 2017 17:38:55 GMT
She was in little to no danger from Luddendorf or any of the German soldiers, and then after she "unlocked her inner Goddess" or whatever Ares was no threat either.
The DCEU doesn't like putting their heroes in REAL danger.
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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Dec 2, 2017 17:42:13 GMT
Because the movie people are nice enough to let us know about the future films, so we already know the heroes and supporting characters won't die. Or...because they wanted to tell a story about how easily people can be mislead to see "The Foreigner" as the bad guy rather than see the evils within their own society. Superman was the star of Superman the movie. Luthor didnt appear until halfway through. They dont need to kill off a main character to create suspense. The Disney villains are just not threatening. And there are dangerous foreigners in real life. They could have done both-had the Mandarin as a threat as well as some banker-politician character who was in cahoots with him. Their SJW agenda ruined it.
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Post by formersamhmd on Dec 2, 2017 17:45:19 GMT
Superman was the star of Superman the movie. Luthor didnt appear until halfway through. And once he showed up, the film revolved around Luthor. Because they aren't the stars of the show, the way the villains usually were in older CBMs like the Batman movies. Maybe, but the bigger theme was seeing the enemy within rather than without. In today's environment it's a necessary message.
If they were really into the SJW stuff they'd be doing the Female Thor thing right now.
You don't see anyone complaining that Nolan made Ra's Al Ghul and Talia into White people.
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Dec 2, 2017 17:54:07 GMT
<div class="quote" author=" Hauntedknight87" source="/post/1130895/thread" timestamp="1512236232"><div class="quote_body"><div class="quote_avatar_container"><div title="hauntedknight87" class="avatar-wrapper avatar_size_quote avatar-623"><img alt="hauntedknight87 Avatar" src="https://i.imgur.com/zN6TTAo.jpg"></div></div><div class="quote_header"><a href="/post/1130895/thread"><abbr title="Dec 2, 2017 13:37:12 GMT -4" class="o-timestamp time" data-timestamp="1512236232000">Dec 2, 2017 13:37:12 GMT -4</abbr></a> <span itemtype="http://schema.org/Person" itemscope=""><a title=" Hauntedknight87" class="user-link js-user-link user-623 group-0" href="/user/623" itemprop="url"><span itemprop="name">hauntedknight87</span></a></span> said:</div><div class="quote" author=" formersamhmd" source="/post/1130806/thread" timestamp="1512234132"><div class="quote_body"><div class="quote_avatar_container"><div title="formersamhmd" class="avatar-wrapper avatar_size_quote avatar-443"><img alt="formersamhmd Avatar" src="//storage.proboards.com/6692551/avatar/tYuHvaUFWMJfHFpGBcov.jpg"></div></div><div class="quote_header"><a href="/post/1130806/thread"><abbr title="Dec 2, 2017 13:02:12 GMT -4" class="o-timestamp time" data-timestamp="1512234132000">Dec 2, 2017 13:02:12 GMT -4</abbr></a> <span itemtype="http://schema.org/Person" itemscope=""><a title=" formersamhmd" class="user-link js-user-link user-443 group-0" href="/user/443" itemprop="url"><span itemprop="name">formersamhmd</span></a></span> said:</div>Then they shouldn't have shown her to be pretty much invincible in her own movie and then use someone she should've been able to beat on her own for the JL's big villain. <br><div class="quote_clear"></div></div></div><br>Was she invincible? I could have sworn she got her ass kicked by Ares at the start of the fight, before she went all SSJ on Ares.<br><br>Seriously Patty Jenkins should direct a Dragon Ball movie. It's not like she could do any worse than Dragon Ball Evolution!<div class="quote_clear"></div></div></div><p>She was in little to no danger from Luddendorf or any of the German soldiers, and then after she "unlocked her inner Goddess" or whatever Ares was no threat either.</p><p><br></p><p>The DCEU doesn't like putting their heroes in REAL danger.<br></p> Well to be fair they were human soldiers. Thor tore up some Hydra ass and the Ultron drones we're no threat to him either. Diana is like Thor. Regular humans? Petty and tiny. But nonhumans would be more of a challenge.
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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Dec 2, 2017 17:58:51 GMT
Maybe, but the bigger theme was seeing the enemy within rather than without. In today's environment it's a necessary message.
If they were really into the SJW stuff they'd be doing the Female Thor thing right now.
You don't see anyone complaining that Nolan made Ra's Al Ghul and Talia into White people.
They wanted to cuck Thor first. Give them time to get to a female Thor. And in the original comics those characters looked white. Superman had plenty of screen time in both Superman and Superman 2. Foreign villains are a real threat-ask the people who found the bomb in the German christmas market or the people who survived the Nice attack. You can do both--it is possible to multitask antagonists in a movie story. Robocop did it. Dark man also.
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Post by formersamhmd on Dec 2, 2017 18:03:36 GMT
Well to be fair they were human soldiers. Thor tore up some Hydra ass and the Ultron drones we're no threat to him either. Diana is like Thor. Regular humans? Petty and tiny. But nonhumans would be more of a challenge. At least Thor fights people who ARE a threat to him, while DC is too scared to put Diana up against someone who is. IE, have her fight someone who is invulnerable to her sword and who has energy attacks so strong that her bracelets shatter when she tries to block them. And she doesn't have a team or Superman to fall back on.
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Post by formersamhmd on Dec 2, 2017 18:05:31 GMT
They wanted to cuck Thor first. Give them time to get to a female Thor. Don't think so, instead of outright giving us a new Thor they'll give us Sif or Valkyrie movies. But they were never white. He was still overshadowed by Luthor in SM1 and he was a total moron throughout all of SM2. And plenty of times they're a scapegoat too. Which is what IM3's real villain exploited. Mandarin's never been that good a villain anyways, Obadiah Stane was more of a real archenemy to Tony in the comics.
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Dec 2, 2017 18:25:39 GMT
Maybe, but the bigger theme was seeing the enemy within rather than without. In today's environment it's a necessary message.
If they were really into the SJW stuff they'd be doing the Female Thor thing right now.
You don't see anyone complaining that Nolan made Ra's Al Ghul and Talia into White people.
They wanted to cuck Thor first. Give them time to get to a female Thor. And in the original comics those characters looked white. Superman had plenty of screen time in both Superman and Superman 2. Foreign villains are a real threat-ask the people who found the bomb in the German christmas market or the people who survived the Nice attack. You can do both--it is possible to multitask antagonists in a movie story. Robocop did it. Dark man also. Okay I'll bite, how did they cuck Thor?
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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Dec 2, 2017 18:31:16 GMT
But they were never white. He was still overshadowed by Luthor in SM1 and he was a total moron throughout all of SM2. And plenty of times they're a scapegoat too. Which is what IM3's real villain exploited. Mandarin's never been that good a villain anyways, Obadiah Stane was more of a real archenemy to Tony in the comics. They were drawn as white. Go look at Neal Adams renditions again. Superman was flying around fixing railroad tracks and catching missiles. Believe me, in 1978 he was not overshadowed. No one had seen a guy catch a missile before. Doesnt matter if they are scapegoats sometimes. The fact remains that you can have dangerous foreigners and sick insiders in a society. No reason you cant have both.
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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Dec 2, 2017 18:41:00 GMT
Okay I'll bite, how did they cuck Thor? Thor is not presented as an independent heroic character. He is seriously flawed, has parental issues, shown to be kind of dumb (like when he defends Loki in Avengers and is reminded that his brother killed 200 mortals-to which he responds with embarrassment.). Made the butt of a Stark joke. In Thor 2 he fails to defeat the bad guy-Loki and the earthlings do it. The only male characters in the Marvel universe shown to be non neurotic or traditionally successful are Nick Fury and Black Panther (maybe we can throw in Rhodes and Falcon). There is a color pattern emerging.
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Post by formersamhmd on Dec 2, 2017 18:57:45 GMT
But they were never white. He was still overshadowed by Luthor in SM1 and he was a total moron throughout all of SM2. And plenty of times they're a scapegoat too. Which is what IM3's real villain exploited. Mandarin's never been that good a villain anyways, Obadiah Stane was more of a real archenemy to Tony in the comics. They were drawn as white. Go look at Neal Adams renditions again. Superman was flying around fixing railroad tracks and catching missiles. Believe me, in 1978 he was not overshadowed. No one had seen a guy catch a missile before. Doesnt matter if they are scapegoats sometimes. The fact remains that you can have dangerous foreigners and sick insiders in a society. No reason you cant have both. Neal Adams didn't know what he was doing then, because it's made clear later they weren't white.
Effects wise he wasn't overshadowed. Character wise he was. But for decades DC was more about the villains than heroes anyways.
If you want to tell a story about how white bad guys deliberately exploit fear of foreigners then you don't want the foreigner to turn out to be bad anyways. It's like ending the Iron Giant with him using his weapons to blow up the Nuclear Missile, it ruins the theme.
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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Dec 2, 2017 19:06:26 GMT
Neal Adams didn't know what he was doing then, because it's made clear later they weren't white.
If you want to tell a story about how white bad guys deliberately exploit fear of foreigners then you don't want the foreigner to turn out to be bad anyways.
Yeah Neal Adams didnt know what he was doing. What does he know about comics? Why would it ruin the theme? What they did was present a scary villain and then pull the rug out-and not replace him with an even scarier villain (it doesn't help that you have an academy award winning actor as your red herring). The real villain was a jokey nerd. So they lowered the bar instead of raising it which is bad from a dramatic-suspense point of view. But Disney specializes in that sort of thing.
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