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Post by hobowar on Aug 28, 2018 0:38:48 GMT
I'd say the top 10 cbm villains are mostly from the mcu in my opinion.
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Post by No Morpho, Only Bánh mì on Aug 28, 2018 0:55:21 GMT
Iron Man is one of the greatest villains of the modern age.
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Aug 28, 2018 18:35:05 GMT
Seriously man, every time you bring them up it just becomes a huge controversy!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2018 2:34:47 GMT
Seriously man, every time you bring them up it just becomes a huge controversy!
I think they're fine; good enough to make me think it's a kind of invented line that the MCU lacks in the villain department.
It seems sometimes like a criticism that skeptics breath a lot of life into to besmirch the MCU. I think it definitely finds its legs with fans of the DCEU who don't like the MCU.
With that all said, the only really good MCU villains are Thanos and Loki (maybe Hela too). The rest range from on par or better than villains from other movies to fine but forgettable.
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Aug 29, 2018 8:51:55 GMT
Seriously man, every time you bring them up it just becomes a huge controversy!
With that all said, the only really good MCU villains are Thanos and Loki (maybe Hela too). The rest range from on par or better than villains from other movies to fine but forgettable.
MCU Loki was ruined as a villain like they did with the Mandarin.
Because Loki "overshaddowed" Thor as character they explicitly downgraded him to playing Thor's bumbling sidekick in Thor 3. Thereby wiping away what was set up in the previous chapters with Loki taking over and iniciating Ragnarök.
In the myth he is the greatest villain ever who would father and create the monsters who kill all the Gods in the final fight. But if you even make the destruction of Asgard a joke...Fraggleröck.
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Post by charzhino on Aug 29, 2018 9:42:38 GMT
I'd say the top 10 cbm villains are mostly from the mcu in my opinion. Lol
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Post by charzhino on Aug 29, 2018 9:48:48 GMT
With that all said, the only really good MCU villains are Thanos and Loki (maybe Hela too). The rest range from on par or better than villains from other movies to fine but forgettable.
MCU Loki was ruined as a villain like they did with the Mandarin.
Because Loki "overshaddowed" Thor as character they explicitly downgraded him to playing Thor's bumbling sidekick in Thor 3. Thereby wiping away what was set up in the previous chapters with Loki taking over and iniciating Ragnarök.
In the myth he is the greatest villain ever who would father and create the monsters who kill all the Gods in the final fight. But if you even make the destruction of Asgard a joke...Fraggleröck.
This. Loki in Dark World is actually evil to the core. Not feeling any remorse of killing humans on midgard, willing to decieve his half brother Thor in death whilst risking losing the power gem and taking Odin hostage all so that he could overtake the throne of Asgard. That goes beyond the simple god of mischief/tricks and elevates him to darker areas. Look at what they turned loki into in Ragnarok after the great set up he had in TDW.
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Aug 29, 2018 10:20:44 GMT
MCU Loki was ruined as a villain like they did with the Mandarin.
Because Loki "overshaddowed" Thor as character they explicitly downgraded him to playing Thor's bumbling sidekick in Thor 3. Thereby wiping away what was set up in the previous chapters with Loki taking over and iniciating Ragnarök.
In the myth he is the greatest villain ever who would father and create the monsters who kill all the Gods in the final fight. But if you even make the destruction of Asgard a joke...Fraggleröck.
This. Loki in Dark World is actually evil to the core. Not feeling any remorse of killing humans on midgard, willing to decieve his half brother Thor in death whilst risking losing the power gem and taking Odin hostage all so that he could overtake the throne of Asgard. That goes beyond the simple god of mischief/tricks and elevates him to darker areas. Look at what they turned loki into in Ragnarok after the great set up he had in TDW. MCU-Loki like the original was fundamentally ruthless and abitious in Thor, Avengers and even Thor 2. Additionally, he was a post-modern YA villain with mommy/daddy issues and some inner loyalty conflict.
He's basically the same template as Kylo Ren becoming Supreme Leader in Ep VIII. I wonder if in Ep IX Kylo will suddenly have a change of heart too and follow MaRey Sue like a bumbling sidekick after she kicks him off the First Order throne in Act 1. It would be so MCU.
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Post by charzhino on Aug 29, 2018 11:09:35 GMT
I wonder if in Ep IX Kylo will suddenly have a change of heart too and follow MaRey Sue like a bumbling sidekick after she kicks him off the First Order throne in Act 1. It would be so MCU. [/p]
[/quote] It will probably happen. They wasted that dynamic between rey/kylo in TLJ so much, instead focusing on other uninteresting areas. Im hoping to see some of the high level conflict of ideology a la Loki-Thor / Xavier-Magneto type between them in Ep IX but a bumbling idiot Kylo is what they are likely to go with. Just like making Finn an idiot and Loki a comedy gag in Ragnarok. Of course they also have to play to the sjw crowd and depict Kylo being secondary to Rey and make him subservient to her lead (when it actually makes perfect sense for Rey to initially be drawn in by Kylos darker nature and more experience with the force)
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Post by hobowar on Aug 29, 2018 15:28:18 GMT
I'd say the top 10 cbm villains are mostly from the mcu in my opinion. Lol what are you laughing at, you bastard?!?!?!?!
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Post by hobowar on Aug 29, 2018 17:58:07 GMT
Ultron, Zemo and the Mandarin had more thematic and character depth than any of the DC villains (Or heroes, if we're being honest).
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Post by Skaathar on Aug 29, 2018 20:19:23 GMT
Seriously man, every time you bring them up it just becomes a huge controversy!
I think they're fine; good enough to make me think it's a kind of invented line that the MCU lacks in the villain department.
It seems sometimes like a criticism that skeptics breath a lot of life into to besmirch the MCU. I think it definitely finds its legs with fans of the DCEU who don't like the MCU.
With that all said, the only really good MCU villains are Thanos and Loki (maybe Hela too). The rest range from on par or better than villains from other movies to fine but forgettable.
Loki Thanos Vulture Kilmonger Ego Klaue Winter Soldier Ebony Maw Hela Pierce Zemo All good to great villains.
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Post by charzhino on Aug 29, 2018 20:22:31 GMT
Ultron, Zemo and the Mandarin had more thematic and character depth than any of the DC villains (Or heroes, if we're being honest). None of them would get in a top 10 of cbm villains. No where near
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Post by Skaathar on Aug 29, 2018 20:29:52 GMT
Ultron, Zemo and the Mandarin had more thematic and character depth than any of the DC villains (Or heroes, if we're being honest). None of them would get in a top 10 of cbm villains. No where near I agree... but only because most of those other top 10 spots would already be occupied by MCU villains.
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Aug 29, 2018 20:46:21 GMT
I think they're fine; good enough to make me think it's a kind of invented line that the MCU lacks in the villain department.
It seems sometimes like a criticism that skeptics breath a lot of life into to besmirch the MCU. I think it definitely finds its legs with fans of the DCEU who don't like the MCU.
With that all said, the only really good MCU villains are Thanos and Loki (maybe Hela too). The rest range from on par or better than villains from other movies to fine but forgettable.
Loki Thanos Vulture Kilmonger Ego Klaue Winter Soldier Ebony Maw Hela Pierce Zemo All good to great villains. Agree on: Loki Thanos Vulture Kilmonger Ego
Winter Soldier - Not a villain, not really, we all knew how that was going to turn out. Just because Cap was fighting him doesn't mean he was a "villain".
Totally disagree on: Klaue/Klaw Ebony Maw Hela Pierce Zemo
Those characters merely "served their purpose" which is what most movie villains do, CBM or not. Hela gets some bonus points because Cate Blanchet looked so damn hot in all that dark makeup and tight body suit, but otherwise... meh.
P.S. before anyone says it, I don't think DCEU really done much better in this department, except I would add Michael Shannons Zod to the top bunch. The rest... meh.
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Post by charzhino on Aug 29, 2018 21:22:24 GMT
None of them would get in a top 10 of cbm villains. No where near I agree... but only because most of those other top 10 spots would already be occupied by MCU villains. Loki and Thanos for sure. Dont think any other mcu ones would make it. Il make a seperate thread
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Post by hobowar on Aug 29, 2018 21:36:55 GMT
Ultron, Zemo and the Mandarin had more thematic and character depth than any of the DC villains (Or heroes, if we're being honest). None of them would get in a top 10 of cbm villains. No where near I said they had more depth. I didn't say anything about ranking them, although I'd all three of are objectively better than any live incarnation of the Joker.
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Post by Vassaggo on Aug 29, 2018 21:44:01 GMT
I think most MCU are average to good with maybe a couple to a few great. I honestly don't feel well (kids are fucking petri dishes and I helped out at Parent/Teacher Welcome Night) and don't want to have to list all of the 20+ villains. I don't think they have horrible, but they do have 2 that are worse than horrible. They are forgettable. The Dark Elf and The Accuser.
DCEU is easier less to go through. Zod is good, Lex is bad, Doomsday was horrible, Enchantress was horrible, Her brother was forgettable, Ares was meh, Mankind as a concept of being the real villain in WW was decent, and Steppenwolf was forgettable. Joker in my mind doesn't count yet.
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Post by Skaathar on Aug 29, 2018 21:51:53 GMT
Loki Thanos Vulture Kilmonger Ego Klaue Winter Soldier Ebony Maw Hela Pierce Zemo All good to great villains. Agree on: Loki Thanos Vulture Kilmonger Ego
Winter Soldier - Not a villain, not really, we all knew how that was going to turn out. Just because Cap was fighting him doesn't mean he was a "villain".
Totally disagree on: Klaue/Klaw Ebony Maw Hela Pierce Zemo
Those characters merely "served their purpose" which is what most movie villains do, CBM or not. Hela gets some bonus points because Cate Blanchet looked so damn hot in all that dark makeup and tight body suit, but otherwise... meh.
P.S. before anyone says it, I don't think DCEU really done much better in this department, except I would add Michael Shannons Zod to the top bunch. The rest... meh.
Bucky was not a villain, Winter Soldier was. Villains I consider who merely "served their purpose" would be guys like Iron Monger, Red Skull, Zod, Killian, Ra's Al Ghul, etc. They weren't bad exactly, just didn't do enough to stand out.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2018 20:24:06 GMT
With that all said, the only really good MCU villains are Thanos and Loki (maybe Hela too). The rest range from on par or better than villains from other movies to fine but forgettable.
MCU Loki was ruined as a villain like they did with the Mandarin.
Because Loki "overshaddowed" Thor as character they explicitly downgraded him to playing Thor's bumbling sidekick in Thor 3. Thereby wiping away what was set up in the previous chapters with Loki taking over and iniciating Ragnarök.
In the myth he is the greatest villain ever who would father and create the monsters who kill all the Gods in the final fight. But if you even make the destruction of Asgard a joke...Fraggleröck.
I didn't mind that with Loki.
Bear in mind all that I know of them comes from the movies. The characters in the comics might not have let it work but the actors did for me. I don't think Loki is capable of continuing what he set up for himself. I was underwhelmed by his parading as the king; I barely even liked the twist at the end of The Dark World. I saw the man cry when his mother died; his villain days were over.
Maybe they had to do it for Thor to overpower him as a character but it worked for me. I knew Thor had potential because he's Thor. When he let loose in Ragnarok I felt like I was watching the first real Thor movie. And Loki is a trickster as I understand. Not evil, but the God of mischief. I appreciated his turn and his growth.
I was concerned that Thor was going the route of Jason Momoa (big, handsome, strong guy who somehow takes up no space) but his growth and strength as a character in Ragnarok and Infinity War is leader of the Avengers material. For the comic mismatch to work, Thor has to come out on top in every department, right down to the charisma and the look.
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