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Post by formersamhmd on Dec 14, 2017 12:46:05 GMT
Just because Captain America: Winter Soldier has a high percent rating does not mean every review is glowing. You won't hear critics on RT call any of the MCU movie a cinematic masterpiece like The Godfather, Titanic, Casablanca, Citizen Kane. NOT ONE. They won't say that about any CBM, so I don't see what you're getting at. |
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Dec 14, 2017 14:50:16 GMT
Well I say that because of this: One day movie historians will look back at this as the era of comic book super hero movies, the way we look back at the era of Westerns and World War 2 movies. Do I think a future Christopher Frayling is going to be writing volumes on the intricacies of the MCU characterization? Very unlikely. It just does not have the depth of the spaghetti western genre. As Variety said about the latest Star Wars movie: 'Though the series has always been self-aware enough to crack jokes, it now gives in to the same winking self-parody that is poisoning other franchises of late, from the Marvel movies to “Pirates of the Caribbean.” But it begs the question: If movies can’t take themselves seriously, why should audiences?' If critics of the age are seeing the films as non serious, imagine what a future historian will think. Probably write them off as banker-Wall Street designed movies with more money put into marketing than the productions themselves. Sure, but what I mean is that when we look back at the heyday of CBMS (the way we look back at Westerns as one of the best examples of a type of movie that is no longer made with any real frequency) we will see that MCU was an industry juggernaut in the era of this type of movie. No one's going to say "That Hellboy movie was the top of the heap!" They're going to say "During this time the most prolific and successful creator of such movies was Marvel Studios which ushered in the era of the shared universe of movies, which DCEU followed, which Universal tried to emulate with their Dark Universe, and which even affected the already successful Star Wars and Fast and Furious franchises."
Don't get me wrong, I'm more of a DC guy myself, but there's no doubt that Marvel has taken the brass ring so far in terms of movies. We are currently in the golden age of CBMs and MCU is the industry leader right now.
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Dec 14, 2017 15:05:28 GMT
Good god Arch! Really?! "Is Anything A Greater Cinematic Achievement Than The MCU?" Holy shit, the MCU %#&% is so far up your @$$ you cant even see right.
How about, oh I don't know, movies of social or dramatic significance that have stood the test of time? Or movies that were so deep and meaningful that they changed lives and peoples perceptions, or even just film language itself? Or the ENTIRE CAREERS of Steven Spielberg, or Martin Scorsese, or Stanley Kubrick? What about the entire European Film Nouveau movement of the 60's? The new wave of American auteurs in the 70's? How about sound and color in movies? How about Just Star Wars, or Harry Potter, or LOTR or Star Trek?
The MCU is awesome, no doubt! But its just fun entertainment. There are far more greater achievements in film/cinema than a string of money making CBM's. Go out into the world, see some movies from before just the last ten years, learn, and then come back and we'll talk about the great cinematic achievements.
Seriously, tone down the fanaticism. Its out of control!
To be fair, I'm pretty sure the main purpose of movies (in modern times anyway) is to provide fun and entertainment. For most movies, yes. But there are movies that are made with intrinsic artistic value and the added intention of being informative and even transformative. Surely you cant see a movie like 10 Years a Slave or Spotlight without coming away from it "feeling" something, maybe even having learned something, maybe even having your heart and mind changed to some degree (and if you haven't seen those movies, what are you waiting for?).
That's more than just entertainment. Some movies can have that kind of lasting affect on a movie goer. MCU and pretty much all CBMs are just popcorn flicks.
I don't mind that. I like them that way. But they're not the kind of substantive movie that goes down in history. No MCU movie is going to be remembered the way that Lawrence of Arabia is or The Godfather is or 2001: a Space Odyssey is 40 to 50 years later (outside of maybe how much money it made).
No offense is intended to MCU, I am a fan. But if that makes me sound like a film snob, then so be it.
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Dec 14, 2017 15:23:00 GMT
Just because Captain America: Winter Soldier has a high percent rating does not mean every review is glowing. You won't hear critics on RT call any of the MCU movie a cinematic masterpiece like The Godfather, Titanic, Casablanca, Citizen Kane. NOT ONE. In fact, the closest superhero movies I can come up with that deserves such praise are X-Men: Days of Future Past, Spider-Man 2 and The Dark Knight. And in a few years time, these kind of comic book movies will be extinct from production. Could be. And it will end one day. But as of right now even the flops are making lots of money, so that time of extinction is not that soon. Even Justice League is not a real flop, having already made over 500 mil world wide. And that's on the low end for one of these. |
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Post by jakesully on Dec 14, 2017 15:58:00 GMT
laughable thread.
And considering most of the MCU films are mediocre , its really not that great of a cinematic achievement AT ALL. I mean, yeah its kinda cool that all these films & characters are connected but come on, most of these films are just average fast food /assembly line crap .
I agree with the one poster on here that mentioned TDK trilogy, Star Wars trilogy , Indy trilogy ...hell even the Lord of the Rings trilogy was a greater cinematic achievement.
Quality over Quantity .
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Post by formersamhmd on Dec 14, 2017 16:02:12 GMT
laughable thread. And considering most of the MCU films are mediocre , its really not that great of a cinematic achievement AT ALL. I mean, yeah its kinda cool that all these films & characters are connected but come on, most of these films are just average fast food /assembly line crap . Ah yes, this old excuse. Because the MCU makes movies efficiently and on schedule it means they're "assembly line" as opposed to going over budget and directors sitting on their thumbs wasting time. Give the MCU time to gain nostalgic value like those others have. |
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Post by jakesully on Dec 14, 2017 16:16:09 GMT
laughable thread. And considering most of the MCU films are mediocre , its really not that great of a cinematic achievement AT ALL. I mean, yeah its kinda cool that all these films & characters are connected but come on, most of these films are just average fast food /assembly line crap . lol yeah I'm sure some MCU films like freakin Ant Man & Thor 2 are gonna be remembered just like Raiders of the Lost Ark or Star Wars haha good one. |
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Post by jakesully on Dec 14, 2017 16:18:40 GMT
also while I am a fan of SOME of the MCU films, lets be real here, most of them are just cinematic fluff. Not even remotely memorable . Basically just time wasters .
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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Dec 14, 2017 16:31:55 GMT
Sure, but what I mean is that when we look back at the heyday of CBMS (the way we look back at Westerns as one of the best examples of a type of movie that is no longer made with any real frequency) we will see that MCU was an industry juggernaut in the era of this type of movie. No one's going to say "That Hellboy movie was the top of the heap!" They're going to say "During this time the most prolific and successful creator of such movies was Marvel Studios which ushered in the era of the shared universe of movies, which DCEU followed, which Universal tried to emulate with their Dark Universe, and which even affected the already successful Star Wars and Fast and Furious franchises."
Don't get me wrong, I'm more of a DC guy myself, but there's no doubt that Marvel has taken the brass ring so far in terms of movies. We are currently in the golden age of CBMs and MCU is the industry leader right now.
I think the bigger story will be about the effects of giant conglomerates on culture and society. Disney apparently has so much money it doesnt even need to make any profit on films. It has an aggressive Orwellian attitude on marketing well beyond the traditional, and not even DC's parent company has the same. |
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Post by formersamhmd on Dec 14, 2017 16:57:20 GMT
Give the MCU time to gain nostalgic value like those others have. lol yeah I'm sure some MCU films like freakin Ant Man & Thor 2 are gonna be remembered just like Raiders of the Lost Ark or Star Wars haha good one. Iron Man 1, Avengers, Winter Soldier, Civil War and Guardians will. Maybe Ragnarok too. |
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Dec 14, 2017 16:58:45 GMT
Sure, but what I mean is that when we look back at the heyday of CBMS (the way we look back at Westerns as one of the best examples of a type of movie that is no longer made with any real frequency) we will see that MCU was an industry juggernaut in the era of this type of movie. No one's going to say "That Hellboy movie was the top of the heap!" They're going to say "During this time the most prolific and successful creator of such movies was Marvel Studios which ushered in the era of the shared universe of movies, which DCEU followed, which Universal tried to emulate with their Dark Universe, and which even affected the already successful Star Wars and Fast and Furious franchises."
Don't get me wrong, I'm more of a DC guy myself, but there's no doubt that Marvel has taken the brass ring so far in terms of movies. We are currently in the golden age of CBMs and MCU is the industry leader right now.
I think the bigger story will be about the effects of giant conglomerates on culture and society. Disney apparently has so much money it doesnt even need to make any profit on films. It has an aggressive Orwellian attitude on marketing well beyond the traditional, and not even DC's parent company has the same. They're like a black hole! LOL |
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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Dec 14, 2017 17:16:12 GMT
They're like a black hole! LOL The Borg! |
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Post by sostie on Dec 14, 2017 18:07:03 GMT
Only according to you. According to most accepted metrics like Rotten Tomatoes, Metacritic, Critical reactions... majority of MCU movies are indeed quality. Even their worst movies are by and large considered decent. Show me any other movie franchise that's able to create multiple movies and maintain such a high level of praise from audience and critics alike? Not just according to me. According to EVERYONE. Source? Isn't this about a franchise? So why just pick one film from franchises to prove a point. Why not judge a franchise on consistency. And when judging let's use your constant go to site for judging such things Rotten Tomatoes. The lowest critic rated MCU film The Incredible Hulk at 67% Now let's look at your examples The Dark Knight - yup, none as low as Hulk in that trilogy...but there are MCU films that beat 2 of the entries The Empire Strikes Back (Star Wars) - 2 films rated lower than MCU's lowest Raiders of the Lost Ark - again, none as low as Hulk in that series...but there are many MCU films that beat 3 of the entries Terminator 2 - 2 films rated at less than half of MCU's lowest Back to the Future - 1 film rated lower than MCU's lowest Wonder Woman (DCEU) - 4 films rated lower than MCU's lowest Cherry picking individual entries in a franchise to compare against a whole franchise is pretty dumb. (And comparing one's from different eras in this way is pretty pointless too) |
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Post by Spooky Ghost Ackbar on Dec 14, 2017 18:45:12 GMT
Good god Arch! Really?! "Is Anything A Greater Cinematic Achievement Than The MCU?" Holy shit, the MCU %#&% is so far up your @$$ you cant even see right.
How about, oh I don't know, movies of social or dramatic significance that have stood the test of time? Or movies that were so deep and meaningful that they changed lives and peoples perceptions, or even just film language itself? Or the ENTIRE CAREERS of Steven Spielberg, or Martin Scorsese, or Stanley Kubrick? What about the entire European Film Nouveau movement of the 60's? The new wave of American auteurs in the 70's? How about sound and color in movies? How about Just Star Wars, or Harry Potter, or LOTR or Star Trek?
The MCU is awesome, no doubt! But its just fun entertainment. There are far more greater achievements in film/cinema than a string of money making CBM's. Go out into the world, see some movies from before just the last ten years, learn, and then come back and we'll talk about the great cinematic achievements.
Seriously, tone down the fanaticism. Its out of control!
To be fair, I'm pretty sure the main purpose of movies (in modern times anyway) is to provide fun and entertainment. That's a low bar. Might as well say Adam Sandler movies are cinematic achievements then... |
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Post by Spooky Ghost Ackbar on Dec 14, 2017 18:53:41 GMT
To be fair, I'm pretty sure the main purpose of movies (in modern times anyway) is to provide fun and entertainment. For most movies, yes. But there are movies that are made with intrinsic artistic value and the added intention of being informative and even transformative. Surely you cant see a movie like 10 Years a Slave or Spotlight without coming away from it "feeling" something, maybe even having learned something, maybe even having your heart and mind changed to some degree (and if you haven't seen those movies, what are you waiting for?).
That's more than just entertainment. Some movies can have that kind of lasting affect on a movie goer. MCU and pretty much all CBMs are just popcorn flicks.
I don't mind that. I like them that way. But they're not the kind of substantive movie that goes down in history. No MCU movie is going to be remembered the way that Lawrence of Arabia is or The Godfather is or 2001: a Space Odyssey is 40 to 50 years later (outside of maybe how much money it made).
No offense is intended to MCU, I am a fan. But if that makes me sound like a film snob, then so be it.
Excellent points! I'd also add that a lot of blockbuster summer movies of the past exceed the goal of simply being entertainment. Jurassic Park, for example, is an enduring masterpiece that will survive the test of time. Jaws, Raiders, Empire Strikes Back ECT... While a handful of MCU come close to this level, most pale in comparison. |
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Post by Spooky Ghost Ackbar on Dec 14, 2017 18:56:42 GMT
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Post by kuatorises on Dec 14, 2017 18:59:01 GMT
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Dec 14, 2017 19:08:37 GMT
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Dec 14, 2017 19:11:38 GMT
For most movies, yes. But there are movies that are made with intrinsic artistic value and the added intention of being informative and even transformative. Surely you cant see a movie like 10 Years a Slave or Spotlight without coming away from it "feeling" something, maybe even having learned something, maybe even having your heart and mind changed to some degree (and if you haven't seen those movies, what are you waiting for?).
That's more than just entertainment. Some movies can have that kind of lasting affect on a movie goer. MCU and pretty much all CBMs are just popcorn flicks.
I don't mind that. I like them that way. But they're not the kind of substantive movie that goes down in history. No MCU movie is going to be remembered the way that Lawrence of Arabia is or The Godfather is or 2001: a Space Odyssey is 40 to 50 years later (outside of maybe how much money it made).
No offense is intended to MCU, I am a fan. But if that makes me sound like a film snob, then so be it.
Excellent points! I'd also add that a lot of blockbuster summer movies of the past exceed the goal of simply being entertainment. Jurassic Park, for example, is an enduring masterpiece that will survive the test of time. Jaws, Raiders, Empire Strikes Back ECT... While a handful of MCU come close to this level, most pale in comparison. For me the two MCU movies that I believe can stand the test of time are Iron Man 1- both for starting the whole thing and for being so damn good, and Avengers 1 - because it was the culmination of the shared universe and proof that it could be done well. Those two movies push the boundaries of the genre in that sense. But outside of that the rest are just fun. And that's ok.
Overall, I think The Dark Knight will stand the test of time much better and is already considered a modern masterpiece.
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Dec 14, 2017 19:12:06 GMT
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