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Post by Larcen26 on Dec 12, 2017 22:08:29 GMT
Clearly you are better than all others. I was aware they were on a bad path.
Do you think I just made a lucky guess and the whole thing failed for a completely different reason?
Wise beyond all others. All hail Marvel! |
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Dec 12, 2017 22:10:19 GMT
I was aware they were on a bad path.
Do you think I just made a lucky guess and the whole thing failed for a completely different reason?
Wise beyond all others. All hail Marvel! All hail Marvel indeed.
So do you think I just made a lucky guess, or is it possible I knew what I was talking about?
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Post by taylorfirst1 on Dec 12, 2017 22:35:15 GMT
Clearly you are better than all others. I was aware they were on a bad path.
Do you think I just made a lucky guess and the whole thing failed for a completely different reason?
Come on already. Let's talk money for a minute. MOS - made money BvS - below expectations but still made lots of money Suicide Squad - Exceeded all expectations and made a ton of money Wonder Woman - exceeded expectations and made mucho money Justice League - below expectations but still going to make money At worst it's a mixed bag at this point. |
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Dec 12, 2017 22:38:12 GMT
I was aware they were on a bad path.
Do you think I just made a lucky guess and the whole thing failed for a completely different reason?
Come on already. Let's talk money for a minute. MOS - made money BvS - below expectations but still made lots of money Suicide Squad - Exceeded all expectations and made a ton of money Wonder Woman - exceeded expectations and made mucho money Justice League - below expectations but still going to make money At worst it's a mixed bag at this point. I'm not sure that Justice League is going to make money actually,
But it's clearly a quality failure. We aren't talking about money. You don't get to your pay off film, make half of what you expected and call it anything other than a failure. The payoff film is the referendum. It's when everybody says if they approve of what was made or if they don't, and the box office failure doesn't lie.
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Post by Larcen26 on Dec 13, 2017 2:04:27 GMT
Wise beyond all others. All hail Marvel! All hail Marvel indeed.
So do you think I just made a lucky guess, or is it possible I knew what I was talking about?
Clearly you knew what you were talking about. But remember that people still think the DCEU can be saved...I am one of them...and guess what? I might be wrong...but if I'm right, I can 100% guarantee that I won't be here getting my rocks off on it. But if bragging how you were right over and over and over and over and over and over on post after post after post after post after post is how you get your jollies...I kinda feel sorry for you. |
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Dec 13, 2017 2:20:12 GMT
All hail Marvel indeed.
So do you think I just made a lucky guess, or is it possible I knew what I was talking about?
Clearly you knew what you were talking about. But remember that people still think the DCEU can be saved...I am one of them...and guess what? I might be wrong...but if I'm right, I can 100% guarantee that I won't be here getting my rocks off on it. But if bragging how you were right over and over and over and over and over and over on post after post after post after post after post is how you get your jollies...I kinda feel sorry for you. It's not about me saying I'm right. It's about anybody who supported this crap understanding why it failed. And instead of asking me not to say anything, we should be discussing openly the importance of being honest, not letting our fandom blind us, and ultimately supporting projects that are going down the wrong path. Because if you did all that, you helped lead to the failure, because you told them what they were doing was what you wanted, and what they were doing was failing.
And why would you want it to be saved? If MCU phase 1 was this bad, I wouldn't be sitting here begging for more. I'd want it to be done right from the start. I'd want them to start over. Wouldn't you want an entire series of good films rather than what's happened? I do not understand with obsession with continuing as is. Let it go.
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Post by Larcen26 on Dec 13, 2017 4:09:28 GMT
Clearly you knew what you were talking about. But remember that people still think the DCEU can be saved...I am one of them...and guess what? I might be wrong...but if I'm right, I can 100% guarantee that I won't be here getting my rocks off on it. But if bragging how you were right over and over and over and over and over and over on post after post after post after post after post is how you get your jollies...I kinda feel sorry for you. It's not about me saying I'm right. It's about anybody who supported this crap understanding why it failed. And instead of asking me not to say anything, we should be discussing openly the importance of being honest, not letting our fandom blind us, and ultimately supporting projects that are going down the wrong path. Because if you did all that, you helped lead to the failure, because you told them what they were doing was what you wanted, and what they were doing was failing.
And why would you want it to be saved? If MCU phase 1 was this bad, I wouldn't be sitting here begging for more. I'd want it to be done right from the start. I'd want them to start over. Wouldn't you want an entire series of good films rather than what's happened? I do not understand with obsession with continuing as is. Let it go.
Here is my question. Do you believe that I honestly liked the movie? Or do you believe that I am only saying that I liked it because I am some sort of die-hard DC fanboy like the insane "DC Fan"? |
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Dec 13, 2017 4:12:08 GMT
It's not about me saying I'm right. It's about anybody who supported this crap understanding why it failed. And instead of asking me not to say anything, we should be discussing openly the importance of being honest, not letting our fandom blind us, and ultimately supporting projects that are going down the wrong path. Because if you did all that, you helped lead to the failure, because you told them what they were doing was what you wanted, and what they were doing was failing.
And why would you want it to be saved? If MCU phase 1 was this bad, I wouldn't be sitting here begging for more. I'd want it to be done right from the start. I'd want them to start over. Wouldn't you want an entire series of good films rather than what's happened? I do not understand with obsession with continuing as is. Let it go.
Here is my question. Do you believe that I honestly liked the movie? Or do you believe that I am only saying that I liked it because I am some sort of die-hard DC fanboy like the insane "DC Fan"? It doesn't matter if you like them or not, and it doesn't matter why either. The only questions that matter are if you can see, and if you can admit what is fundamentally broken about these films. |
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Post by Larcen26 on Dec 13, 2017 4:23:01 GMT
Here is my question. Do you believe that I honestly liked the movie? Or do you believe that I am only saying that I liked it because I am some sort of die-hard DC fanboy like the insane "DC Fan"? It doesn't matter if you like them or not, and it doesn't matter why either. The only questions that matter are if you can see, and if you can admit what is fundamentally broken about these films. And I have. Numerous times. Zach Snyder's lack of understating of character (these characters especially) and story, and the grim-dark tone... And the Snyder parts of Justice League was the last gasp of those things... Wonder Woman and the Whedon parts of Justice League showed what the DCEU can and will be moving forward and I am hopeful. What I wholeheartedly disagree with is your base argument that these films and universe are essentially garbage that need to be eliminated like the 2015 Fantastic Four. |
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Dec 13, 2017 4:27:08 GMT
It doesn't matter if you like them or not, and it doesn't matter why either. The only questions that matter are if you can see, and if you can admit what is fundamentally broken about these films. And I have. Numerous times. Zach Snyder's lack of understating of character (these characters especially) and story, and the grim-dark tone... And the Snyder parts of Justice League was the last gasp of those things... Wonder Woman and the Whedon parts of Justice League showed what the DCEU can and will be moving forward and I am hopeful. What I wholeheartedly disagree with is your base argument that these films and universe are essentially garbage that need to be eliminated like the 2015 Fantastic Four. Well the reception has been just as bad, so I don't know why you wouldn't rather let it go and have a universe that's actually good. |
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Post by Larcen26 on Dec 13, 2017 4:28:55 GMT
And I have. Numerous times. Zach Snyder's lack of understating of character (these characters especially) and story, and the grim-dark tone... And the Snyder parts of Justice League was the last gasp of those things... Wonder Woman and the Whedon parts of Justice League showed what the DCEU can and will be moving forward and I am hopeful. What I wholeheartedly disagree with is your base argument that these films and universe are essentially garbage that need to be eliminated like the 2015 Fantastic Four. Well the reception has been just as bad, so I don't know why you wouldn't rather let it go and have a universe that's actually good. The Universe is good. The direction and story writing are bad. |
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Dec 13, 2017 4:43:36 GMT
Well the reception has been just as bad, so I don't know why you wouldn't rather let it go and have a universe that's actually good. The Universe is good. The direction and story writing are bad. The direction and story are guiding the universe. And I agree they're bad.
Listen, I showed up for Batman Begins and The Dark Knight because there was obvious high quality. I love those films. I'm Marvel first, but those are great, and I will tell you right now they are not going to get people like me in the seats with a bunch of half assed bullshit like they've put out with MOS, BVS, SS, and JL. Those are embarrassing and I do not know why you're ok with this type of abuse, and want more of it. Tell them to end it, get their shit together, and start something they'll actually put some effort into.
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Post by Larcen26 on Dec 13, 2017 4:49:10 GMT
The Universe is good. The direction and story writing are bad. The direction and story are guiding the universe. And I agree they're bad.
Listen, I showed up for Batman Begins and The Dark Knight because there was obvious high quality. I love those films. I'm Marvel first, but those are great, and I will tell you right now they are not going to get people like me in the seats with a bunch of half assed bullshit like they've put out with MOS, BVS, SS, and JL. Those are embarrassing and I do not know why you're ok with this type of abuse, and want more of it. Tell them to end it, get their shit together, and start something they'll actually put some effort into.
The Universe is good. I definitely don't see it in any way as abuse. I like the universe. I dislike the stories that were being told in that universe... We HAVE told them to end it...and they are. Wonder Woman and the edits to Justice League are proof. I don't see any need to throw the baby out with the bathwater. |
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Dec 13, 2017 5:00:14 GMT
The direction and story are guiding the universe. And I agree they're bad.
Listen, I showed up for Batman Begins and The Dark Knight because there was obvious high quality. I love those films. I'm Marvel first, but those are great, and I will tell you right now they are not going to get people like me in the seats with a bunch of half assed bullshit like they've put out with MOS, BVS, SS, and JL. Those are embarrassing and I do not know why you're ok with this type of abuse, and want more of it. Tell them to end it, get their shit together, and start something they'll actually put some effort into.
The Universe is good. I definitely don't see it in any way as abuse. I like the universe. I dislike the stories that were being told in that universe... We HAVE told them to end it...and they are. Wonder Woman and the edits to Justice League are proof. I don't see any need to throw the baby out with the bathwater. If you don't throw the baby out, he's going to grow up with whatever horribly incurable infection you can catch from bathwater.
You're always going to have what you admit are bad stories at the core of the DCEU. No matter how good they get, this will always be the foundation.
It doesn't have to be. Cut it lose.
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Post by Larcen26 on Dec 13, 2017 12:36:24 GMT
The Universe is good. I definitely don't see it in any way as abuse. I like the universe. I dislike the stories that were being told in that universe... We HAVE told them to end it...and they are. Wonder Woman and the edits to Justice League are proof. I don't see any need to throw the baby out with the bathwater. If you don't throw the baby out, he's going to grow up with whatever horribly incurable infection you can catch from bathwater.
You're always going to have what you admit are bad stories at the core of the DCEU. No matter how good they get, this will always be the foundation.
It doesn't have to be. Cut it lose.
I finally realized what you sound like... Every meathead jock bully on a sports site when their team wins. "WOOOO MY TEAM WON! YOUR TEAM SUCKS! YOU THOUGHT YOUR TEAM WAS GOOD, BUT THEY SUCK! WHY DO YOU EVEN LIKE THEM!?" "Well, yes, your team definitely won, but I still like my team...congrats on the win by the way!" "YOU SHOULDN'T LIKE THEM ANYMORE! THEY SHOULD JUST FIRE EVERYONE AND START OVER THEN MAYBE THEY WON'T SUCK!" "I disagree there, I think there are the good bones for a team that they can build on..." "NO WAY THEY SUCK, WE WON AND YOUR TEAM IS AWFUL!" "Yes, I know you won, but I still like..." "PEOPLE AREN'T COMING TO YOUR GAMES BECAUSE YOU SUCK! THEY SHOULD GET RID OF THE WHOLE TEAM AND ALL THE COACHES! THEN MAYBE THEY CAN DOMINATE LIKE MINE!" "Yup, people aren't coming out like they used to, but the seats are still really full...so there is still a lot of love for this team!" "I SAID THIS AT THE START OF THE SEASON THAT MY TEAM WOULD BE AMAZING AND YOUR TEAM WOULD SUCK AND I WAS RIGHT!!!!" "Again true...you did say that and were right. My team definitely needs some work, but I fundamentally disagree that they need to get rid of everything..." "YOU SUCK! WE ROCK! IF YOU KEEP LIKING THEM YOU ARE JUST A PATSY WHO SUCKS TOO!!!!" "I..." "WE RULE! TIME TO START ANOTHER POST SAYING THE SAME THING!!!!!!!" "..." "WOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!" |
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Dec 13, 2017 13:14:20 GMT
If you don't throw the baby out, he's going to grow up with whatever horribly incurable infection you can catch from bathwater.
You're always going to have what you admit are bad stories at the core of the DCEU. No matter how good they get, this will always be the foundation.
It doesn't have to be. Cut it lose.
I finally realized what you sound like... Every meathead jock bully on a sports site when their team wins. Except you already said I was right about my previous critiques of the DCEU. I'm just telling you that building on a cracked foundation isn't the best idea possible. But go ahead if you want to. |
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Post by dazz on Dec 13, 2017 13:18:40 GMT
I know there's this whole, "use flashpoint to fix/reset/etc everything" but what does that really accomplish if the audience still doesn't show up. And why would you expect them to? They obviously left after BVS, and JL hasn't won over me. So why would they show up? Not reading this thread to see if anyones already said this because it means reading your 1 note annoying DC hate posts, but a simple reason is marketing it right, the Flashpoint cartoon *I haven't read the comic* had a major point being the war between Atlantis and the Amazons, Wonder Woman is a hit so if Aquaman is even a modest hit that's the selling point there, Aquaman Vs. Wonder Woman with Flash being the only one able to stop it with Batman, Cyborg & Superman involved as supporting roles.
Also are you mathematically challenged? BVS did $850m or so, JL looks to do $650-700m that means at worst less than 25% of the BVS audience left, they still have a HUGE fanbase who turn out for the films, and given JL did appeal to most fans it's unlikely they'll boycott Flashpoint, then as I said you set up a war beteen Aquamans people & Wonder Woman's people and it's an easy sell.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Dec 13, 2017 13:23:18 GMT
I know there's this whole, "use flashpoint to fix/reset/etc everything" but what does that really accomplish if the audience still doesn't show up. And why would you expect them to? They obviously left after BVS, and JL hasn't won over me. So why would they show up? Not reading this thread to see if anyones already said this because it means reading your 1 note annoying DC hate posts, but a simple reason is marketing it right, the Flashpoint cartoon *I haven't read the comic* had a major point being the war between Atlantis and the Amazons, Wonder Woman is a hit so if Aquaman is even a modest hit that's the selling point there, Aquaman Vs. Wonder Woman with Flash being the only one able to stop it with Batman, Cyborg & Superman involved as supporting roles.
Also are you mathematically challenged? BVS did $850m or so, JL looks to do $650-700m that means at worst less than 25% of the BVS audience left, they still have a HUGE fanbase who turn out for the films, and given JL did appeal to most fans it's unlikely they'll boycott Flashpoint, then as I said you set up a war beteen Aquamans people & Wonder Woman's people and it's an easy sell.
What does the cartoon have to do with anything? That's not selling the film. Wonder Woman didn't sell Justice League, unless you're saying it would have done much worse, so why would she sell Flashpoint? Aquaman and Flash aren't draws yet obviously so good luck I guess.
650-700 for a film that should have made 200% of that and which made 25% less than it's previous entry is pathetic. The question is if you are mathematically challenged?
"most fans" lol. You mean not counting the ones who didn't show up right? ;-) I love how "most" 51% is acceptable. If you can't see the problem with such a large number not liking it, I don't know what to tell you.
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Post by dazz on Dec 13, 2017 13:58:59 GMT
Not reading this thread to see if anyones already said this because it means reading your 1 note annoying DC hate posts, but a simple reason is marketing it right, the Flashpoint cartoon *I haven't read the comic* had a major point being the war between Atlantis and the Amazons, Wonder Woman is a hit so if Aquaman is even a modest hit that's the selling point there, Aquaman Vs. Wonder Woman with Flash being the only one able to stop it with Batman, Cyborg & Superman involved as supporting roles.
Also are you mathematically challenged? BVS did $850m or so, JL looks to do $650-700m that means at worst less than 25% of the BVS audience left, they still have a HUGE fanbase who turn out for the films, and given JL did appeal to most fans it's unlikely they'll boycott Flashpoint, then as I said you set up a war beteen Aquamans people & Wonder Woman's people and it's an easy sell.
What does the cartoon have to do with anything? That's not selling the film. Wonder Woman didn't sell Justice League, unless you're saying it would have done much worse, so why would she sell Flashpoint? Aquaman and Flash aren't draws yet obviously so good luck I guess.
650-700 for a film that should have made 200% of that and which made 25% less than it's previous entry is pathetic. The question is if you are mathematically challenged?
"most fans" lol. You mean not counting the ones who didn't show up right? ;-) I love how "most" 51% is acceptable. If you can't see the problem with such a large number not liking it, I don't know what to tell you.
God your an idiot.
The plot of the animated film was when Flash alters time the new timeline has Atlantis at war with the Amazons, so given Wonder Womans success and if Aquaman is even a modest hit then selling Flashpoint on that, as the war between the Amazons & Atlanteans would get a lot of attention, you than add Flash as the pivotal character who can set things right and sprinkle in the other JL members for a fuller universe and it's an easy sell.
The whole JL should have made $1.5b is stupid that's not what it should have made but what it COULD have made, Batman Begins made less than $400m Dark Knight made over $1b, Rises made over $1b also does that mean Begins should have made $1b also and is a failure for not doing so because clearly Batman is capable of making over $1b per film...No because that's not what it should have made but could have if the circumstances were right, circumstances for JL sure as fuck weren't right so why do you think it should have made max BO? that's just fucking stupid.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Dec 13, 2017 14:10:00 GMT
What does the cartoon have to do with anything? That's not selling the film. Wonder Woman didn't sell Justice League, unless you're saying it would have done much worse, so why would she sell Flashpoint? Aquaman and Flash aren't draws yet obviously so good luck I guess.
650-700 for a film that should have made 200% of that and which made 25% less than it's previous entry is pathetic. The question is if you are mathematically challenged?
"most fans" lol. You mean not counting the ones who didn't show up right? ;-) I love how "most" 51% is acceptable. If you can't see the problem with such a large number not liking it, I don't know what to tell you.
God your an idiot.
The plot of the animated film was when Flash alters time the new timeline has Atlantis at war with the Amazons, so given Wonder Womans success and if Aquaman is even a modest hit then selling Flashpoint on that, as the war between the Amazons & Atlanteans would get a lot of attention, you than add Flash as the pivotal character who can set things right and sprinkle in the other JL members for a fuller universe and it's an easy sell.
The whole JL should have made $1.5b is stupid that's not what it should have made but what it COULD have made, Batman Begins made less than $400m Dark Knight made over $1b, Rises made over $1b also does that mean Begins should have made $1b also and is a failure for not doing so because clearly Batman is capable of making over $1b per film...No because that's not what it should have made but could have if the circumstances were right, circumstances for JL sure as fuck weren't right so why do you think it should have made max BO? that's just fucking stupid.
Again, what difference does the animated film make?
If Avengers made 1.5, why couldn't Justice League. I keep hearing about how famous their characters are.
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