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Post by Liberal-Fondue-Party on Dec 13, 2017 22:23:18 GMT
I'm skeptical simply for the fact critics are raving over it. They raved over Force Awakens and it was total shit and a retread of the original, and not in a Tarantino-esque homage way either. You aren't kidding. I gave it 2 out of 10. The scene where Kylo Ren leaves Mary Sue alone with one stormtrooper I kept expecting Dr Evil to pop up. JJ Abrams is the worst modern day director. He makes Michael Bay look like Cecil B Demille. IMO the whole thing is ruined by the silly-ass storyline. How can the new Galactic Republic be called "the resistance" when in actuality isn't the bad guys, The New Order, the resistance since they are now effectively rebelling against the main government in charge? There was little to no backstory presented either on who the New Order is, wtf Snoke is, all of that. I know there has to be room for mystery but even at least the 1st SW film you got a good idea of who the Empire was, they are the fascist force that runs things now and we got glimpses there existed an era once where times weren't so gloomy. The rest is left up to the imagination but you at least understood what the conflict was about. Also re-using the Death Star concept too was the laziest of writing, I mean it was bad enough Lucas rehashed it in ROTJ, but now they go and rehash it again?!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2017 22:34:44 GMT
You aren't kidding. I gave it 2 out of 10. The scene where Kylo Ren leaves Mary Sue alone with one stormtrooper I kept expecting Dr Evil to pop up. JJ Abrams is the worst modern day director. He makes Michael Bay look like Cecil B Demille. IMO the whole thing is ruined by the silly-ass storyline. How can the new Galactic Republic be called "the resistance" when in actuality isn't the bad guys, The New Order, the resistance since they are now effectively rebelling against the main government in charge? There was little to no backstory presented either on who the New Order is, wtf Snoke is, all of that. I know there has to be room for mystery but even at least the 1st SW film you got a good idea of who the Empire was, they are the fascist force that runs things now and we got glimpses there existed an era once where times weren't so gloomy. The rest is left up to the imagination but you at least understood what the conflict was about. Also Rr-using the Death Star concept too was the laziest of writing, I mean it was bad enough Lucas rehashed it in ROTJ, but now they go and rehash it again?! And just what the hell was the Republic doing all those years? They didn't notice the fringe group of guys building a superweapon that size? I mean, when the Rebellion was tiny, they knew about the Death Star being built...but now that they're supposedly huge, they can't stop some random group of people? And the Sith....ugh. That Kylo Ren isn't a fan of Darth Vader....he's a fan of Whiny Little Anakin. What a disgrace. If he hadn't of whined so much, I'd have cheered for the New Order since the Republic was obviously corrupt and unable to govern. I mean, that planet Mary Sue starts on was probably a lot better off under the Empire but now she's salvaging for food.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2017 22:35:30 GMT
You mean like the way Luke was able to see the sensor ball and deflect its shots while wearing a mask after just two or three sentences of coaching? It's part of Star Wars canon that some people are just born being good with the Force and that it manifests itself sometimes without training. Yes but 1) Luke knows he has abilities by this point and 2) this particular ability is hardly mind blowing. Rey meanwhile 1) knows absolutely nothing! She literally just decides... ' hey, I wonder if i can make this guard do what I say for some reason. I have no reason for believing that I can but screw it, let's give it a shot' and 2) she uses an ability that has been shown to be extremely difficult to master (Luke, in fact, demonstrates how far he's come in Return of the Jedi by using this particular ability). The earlier films establish that you don't just randomly know how to use these abilities. Yoda even thinks Luke is too old to learn how to master them (he ain't much older than Rey). It's extremely bad story telling. And again: I know that you're an idiot. If Rey was a man, I'd be asking exactly the same question. HOW!? If I'm recalling correctly, it's strongly implied that Rey learns to use the Jedi Mind Trick as the result of Kylo Ren's probing of her mind. It doesn't just come out of nowhere; she was stealing his moves. This interpretation is further informed by her character's background as a scavenger. She would be somebody adept at identifying and appropriating things of value and lived in an environment where being adaptable, quick witted and decisive would be key to survival. It makes sense for her character, which had already been strongly implied as having some inherent connection to the Force, to be able make a guess at what he was doing and boldly attempt to emulate it. Rey is also a far more determined and strong-willed person than Luke was, initially, so perhaps that also plays a part in how quickly she can learn magic that is entirely reliant on having faith in its ability to do the impossible. Of course, it was also fan-service because people love the Jedi Mind Trick for some reason. That's the main reason it was there. But it was set up properly by the film and her character and not as out of left-field as people make it out to be.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2017 22:54:58 GMT
Yes but 1) Luke knows he has abilities by this point and 2) this particular ability is hardly mind blowing. Rey meanwhile 1) knows absolutely nothing! She literally just decides... ' hey, I wonder if i can make this guard do what I say for some reason. I have no reason for believing that I can but screw it, let's give it a shot' and 2) she uses an ability that has been shown to be extremely difficult to master (Luke, in fact, demonstrates how far he's come in Return of the Jedi by using this particular ability). The earlier films establish that you don't just randomly know how to use these abilities. Yoda even thinks Luke is too old to learn how to master them (he ain't much older than Rey). It's extremely bad story telling. And again: I know that you're an idiot. If Rey was a man, I'd be asking exactly the same question. HOW!? If I'm recalling correctly, it's strongly implied that Rey learns to use the Jedi Mind Trick as the result of Kylo Ren's probing of her mind. It doesn't just come out of nowhere; she was stealing his moves. This interpretation is further informed by her character's background as a scavenger. She would be somebody adept at identifying and appropriating things of value and lived in an environment where being adaptable, quick witted and decisive would be key to survival. You meet a Jedi and assume you have his powers; yeah, that makes sense. What? It's strongly implied to the audience; not to Rey (unless you're suggesting that she's so powerful that she sensed she was in a movie and through that knowledge, realised she was a Jedi? Now that really would be impressive Jedi-ing). Good grief, no. The movie will eventually try to explain it but I suspect the explanation will be weak (she's related to Vader, she's a human clone of Yoda, she's the ultimate Jedi, blah blah yawn). But if they simply fudge it altogether and offer no real explanation then that's shoddy as hell.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2017 23:21:22 GMT
If I'm recalling correctly, it's strongly implied that Rey learns to use the Jedi Mind Trick as the result of Kylo Ren's probing of her mind. It doesn't just come out of nowhere; she was stealing his moves. This interpretation is further informed by her character's background as a scavenger. She would be somebody adept at identifying and appropriating things of value and lived in an environment where being adaptable, quick witted and decisive would be key to survival. You meet a Jedi and assume you have his powers; yeah, that makes sense. What? It's strongly implied to the audience; not to Rey (unless you're suggesting that she's so powerful that she sensed she was in a movie and through that knowledge, realised she was a Jedi? Now that really would be impressive Jedi-ing). Good grief, no. The movie will eventually try to explain it but I suspect the explanation will be weak (she's related to Vader, she's a human clone of Yoda, she's the ultimate Jedi, blah blah yawn). But if they simply fudge it altogether and offer no real explanation then that's shoddy as hell. Rey had already been aware of the Force by that point. If you'll recall, those scenes follow her freakout after finding the lightsaber, and after the dried apricot lady flat out stated that Rey had a connection to the Force. She does have his powers and she's well-aware of it by that point. The only question for her is whether she will embrace them and or whether she will run from them to avoid taking on the responsibility (again, this is in character, as she is reluctant to take on responsibilities but her conscience or circumstances often forces her to do exactly that). So yes, it was implied to her very strongly that she could use the Force. It was a pivotal moment for her character and again, all this stuff was set up and didn't come out of nowhere. I can see saying it wasn't executed well or that the pace was rushed, but in terms of storytelling, it covered its bases just fine in terms of setting up a logical progression.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2017 23:37:13 GMT
You meet a Jedi and assume you have his powers; yeah, that makes sense. What? It's strongly implied to the audience; not to Rey (unless you're suggesting that she's so powerful that she sensed she was in a movie and through that knowledge, realised she was a Jedi? Now that really would be impressive Jedi-ing). Good grief, no. The movie will eventually try to explain it but I suspect the explanation will be weak (she's related to Vader, she's a human clone of Yoda, she's the ultimate Jedi, blah blah yawn). But if they simply fudge it altogether and offer no real explanation then that's shoddy as hell. Rey had already been aware of the Force by that point. If you'll recall, those scenes follow her freakout after finding the lightsaber, and after the dried apricot lady flat out stated that Rey had a connection to the Force. She does have his powers and she's well-aware of it by that point. The only question for her is whether she will embrace them and or whether she will run from them to avoid taking on the responsibility (again, this is in character, as she is reluctant to take on responsibilities but her conscience or circumstances often forces her to do exactly that). So yes, it was implied to her very strongly that she could use the Force. It was a pivotal moment for her character and again, all this stuff was set up and didn't come out of nowhere. I can see saying it wasn't executed well or that the pace was rushed, but in terms of storytelling, it covered its bases just fine in terms of setting up a logical progression. Sorry but no. Everyone is aware of the force but being aware of it and being able to use it are very different things. There is absolutely no reason for Rey to assume that she can. It's strongly implied in the original trilogy that Leia has a connection to the force (there is another) but at no point does anyone assume that she'll start lifting tie fighters with her mind.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2017 23:50:24 GMT
Rey had already been aware of the Force by that point. If you'll recall, those scenes follow her freakout after finding the lightsaber, and after the dried apricot lady flat out stated that Rey had a connection to the Force. She does have his powers and she's well-aware of it by that point. The only question for her is whether she will embrace them and or whether she will run from them to avoid taking on the responsibility (again, this is in character, as she is reluctant to take on responsibilities but her conscience or circumstances often forces her to do exactly that). So yes, it was implied to her very strongly that she could use the Force. It was a pivotal moment for her character and again, all this stuff was set up and didn't come out of nowhere. I can see saying it wasn't executed well or that the pace was rushed, but in terms of storytelling, it covered its bases just fine in terms of setting up a logical progression. Sorry but no. Everyone is aware of the force but being aware of it and being able to use it are very different things. There is absolutely no reason for Rey to assume that she can. There is every reason for her to assume that she can because she already had by that point. Her hallucination was a manifestation of her latent ability to tap into the Force and she is then outright told she has a connection to Luke and Anakin, both of whom are also naturals at using the Force. It's spelled out by the film, man, what else can I say?
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Post by Nightman on Dec 13, 2017 23:51:58 GMT
Rey had already been aware of the Force by that point. If you'll recall, those scenes follow her freakout after finding the lightsaber, and after the dried apricot lady flat out stated that Rey had a connection to the Force. She does have his powers and she's well-aware of it by that point. The only question for her is whether she will embrace them and or whether she will run from them to avoid taking on the responsibility (again, this is in character, as she is reluctant to take on responsibilities but her conscience or circumstances often forces her to do exactly that). So yes, it was implied to her very strongly that she could use the Force. It was a pivotal moment for her character and again, all this stuff was set up and didn't come out of nowhere. I can see saying it wasn't executed well or that the pace was rushed, but in terms of storytelling, it covered its bases just fine in terms of setting up a logical progression. Sorry but no. Everyone is aware of the force but being aware of it and being able to use it are very different things. There is absolutely no reason for Rey to assume that she can. It's strongly implied in the original trilogy that Leia has a connection to the force (there is another) but at no point does anyone assume that she'll start lifting tie fighters with her mind. Rey had also read Kylo's mind, apparently by accident, so she knew she had the Force. That was still BS, though.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2017 0:09:22 GMT
Sorry but no. Everyone is aware of the force but being aware of it and being able to use it are very different things. There is absolutely no reason for Rey to assume that she can. It's strongly implied in the original trilogy that Leia has a connection to the force (there is another) but at no point does anyone assume that she'll start lifting tie fighters with her mind. Rey had also read Kylo's mind, apparently by accident, so she knew she had the Force. That was still BS, though. Well, let's be honest. Star Wars was never particularly smart or deep. If you wanted to call bullshit on its universe or the Force or its politics or character motivations, there's no shortage of things to nitpick or gripe about. Star Wars was never an exercise in world-building or a character study; it's breezy, escapist fiction and it's kinda silly and dumb. You're not supposed to think too hard about it and you're not supposed to walk away from the films with a greater understanding of the world-- you're just supposed to enjoy the ride and have a good time and be thrilled and entertained. Why Star Wars has to be something more than just a fun excursion and taken seriously is beyond me.
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Post by Nightman on Dec 14, 2017 0:20:38 GMT
Rey had also read Kylo's mind, apparently by accident, so she knew she had the Force. That was still BS, though. Well, let's be honest. Star Wars was never particularly smart or deep. If you wanted to call bullshit on its universe or the Force or its politics or character motivations, there's no shortage of things to nitpick or gripe about. Star Wars was never an exercise in world-building or a character study; it's breezy, escapist fiction and it's kinda silly and dumb. You're not supposed to think too hard about it and you're not supposed to walk away from the films with a greater understanding of the world-- you're just supposed to enjoy the ride and have a good time and be thrilled and entertained. Why Star Wars has to be something more than just a fun excursion and taken seriously is beyond me. That sums up why I think Star Wars is the most overrated franchise of all time, by far. Bad writing, a lot of bad acting, bad characters, overall shallow and superficial. Other franchises that people sht on all the time are better in every way, yet they and superior franchises will always sit in Star Wars' shadow. It's puzzling.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2017 0:34:41 GMT
Sorry but no. Everyone is aware of the force but being aware of it and being able to use it are very different things. There is absolutely no reason for Rey to assume that she can. There is every reason for her to assume that she can because she already had by that point. Her hallucination was a manifestation of her latent ability to tap into the Force and she is then outright told she has a connection to Luke and Anakin, both of whom are also naturals at using the Force. It's spelled out by the film, man, what else can I say? How does a hallucination demonstrate that you have an ability to use the force? Likewise, a connection to people who can use it means nothing. As already stated, Luke can use it... Leia cannot. And which film demonstrates that Leia is a natural at using the force? It isn't spelled out at all. And even if it had been, that still doesn't explain her instant ability to use the force with such effortless finesse. It's either bad writing or there's gonna be a ridiculous reveal in the final film. My money's on her being a lady-clone of Vader.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2017 0:58:20 GMT
Well, let's be honest. Star Wars was never particularly smart or deep. If you wanted to call bullshit on its universe or the Force or its politics or character motivations, there's no shortage of things to nitpick or gripe about. Star Wars was never an exercise in world-building or a character study; it's breezy, escapist fiction and it's kinda silly and dumb. You're not supposed to think too hard about it and you're not supposed to walk away from the films with a greater understanding of the world-- you're just supposed to enjoy the ride and have a good time and be thrilled and entertained. Why Star Wars has to be something more than just a fun excursion and taken seriously is beyond me. That sums up why I think Star Wars is the most overrated franchise of all time, by far. Bad writing, a lot of bad acting, bad characters, overall shallow and superficial. Other franchises that people sht on all the time are better in every way, yet they and superior franchises will always sit in Star Wars' shadow. It's puzzling. At least initially, Star Wars had a lot of charm. There are more than a few laughably silly moments in the original Star Wars but it's balanced out by having an exciting, epic adventure that is perfectly executed and paced. It's a very competent hero's journey story and what would ordinarily come off as a flaw in another film comes off as endearing and weirdly charismatic because of the strength of its structure and technical execution (i.e. it was saved in editing). Empire Strikes Back improved upon it by fleshing out the characters while keeping that same eclectic charm and technical prowess. Return of the Jedi was also a Star Wars movie. I think those films still have a lot of charm and they are extremely entertaining. Flaws, they've got them, but they're more cute than annoying. So I've got no hate for the OT, mostly. But frankly, it's time to let it die. We've got enough Star Wars. No more please.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2017 1:09:03 GMT
There is every reason for her to assume that she can because she already had by that point. Her hallucination was a manifestation of her latent ability to tap into the Force and she is then outright told she has a connection to Luke and Anakin, both of whom are also naturals at using the Force. It's spelled out by the film, man, what else can I say? How does a hallucination demonstrate that you have an ability to use the force? Likewise, a connection to people who can use it means nothing. As already stated, Luke can use it... Leia cannot. And which film demonstrates that Leia is a natural at using the force? It isn't spelled out at all. And even if it had been, that still doesn't explain her instant ability to use the force with such effortless finesse. It's either bad writing or there's gonna be a ridiculous reveal in the final film. My money's on her being a lady-clone of Vader. Well, that's a bit contradictory as you said earlier that everyone is aware of the Force. I'd assume if that were the case, they'd also know that premonitions are common to Force users. Ergo, wouldn't Rey understand that what she experienced might have been a premonition especially considering it was triggered by a Jedi weapon and that moments afterwards she was told it was the result of her connection to two of the strongest Force users? I think she might be able to connect the dots there and assume the Force had something to do with her acid trip. Also, it is implied Leia was able to use the Force as she is Force sensitive, Yoda and Obi Wan hint that she is another possible savior should Luke fail, and Luke outright states she was a Force user in the trailer for TFA. And I'd say Rey is the Force or becomes one with the Force and straight up Jesuses the shit out of Star Wars. Though I hope not.
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Post by lukelovesfilm34 on Dec 14, 2017 1:34:37 GMT
I'm still going to see it. I had to buy my ticket for Thursday night a few days ago. Goddamn tickets are selling like crazy. I've never seen movie theater fill up so quickly. Do people hate other kinds of movies this much?? American Made was one of the best movies of the year and no one went to see it.
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Post by simplemoviecommenter on Dec 14, 2017 2:17:41 GMT
You mean like the way Luke was able to see the sensor ball and deflect its shots while wearing a mask after just two or three sentences of coaching? It's part of Star Wars canon that some people are just born being good with the Force and that it manifests itself sometimes without training. And again: I know for a fact this wouldn't be an issue for you or anyone else if she were male. How do you know that it after just two or three sentences of coaching? Look at the scene. Luke is already in the middle of lightsaber training. Chewbacca and R2D2 have been playing a long game. Han is taking it easy lounging around. It can be easily inferred that a considerable amount of time has passed, like an hour or more. In which Luke receive hands-on training from a master. The sensor ball and deflecting shots is basic intuition shit. And by the end of the movie, the only Jedi thing Luke does is use the Force to intuitively know when and where to react with a torpedo. He never mind tricked any Death Star personnel or Force Grabbed Obi-wan's lightsaber and dueled Darth Vader to victory. That would've been bullshit. Yes, canon says some people are born good at it, but Rey is so goddamn boring because of it. And you don't know that we wouldn't care if Rey were male. We've explained time and time again the big differences between Rey and Luke and we never used her gender. Well, for me I used her gender one time to disparage that TFA scene where she screams at Finn for holding her hand. That scene would never have happened if she were male. But the developers really felt they had to bludgeon in such an unnecessary in-your-face girl power thing. "Rey's a strong independent woman who don't need no man!" Did Princess Leia ever do something like that with her rescuers Luke and Han?
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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Dec 14, 2017 2:30:24 GMT
The initial appeal of Star Wars was A budget FX and art design put into a B movie story. The last time it had been done was RKO's King Kong in 1933.
But the truth is the characters are poorly written and perhaps deliberately so. The hero is a nebbish sort who needs a friend to shoot someone from behind and the guidance of a ghost to tell him when to escape danger (run Luke, run!) and fire a weapon.
It's the combination of FX and design and music that sells the movie.
If they had made sequels in the late 80s and into the 90s, Lucas could have cornered the market on innovative FX sequences. But he waited too long, and other movies in the digital age stole Star Wars' thunder.
Gary Kurtz claimed the original sequels were to go like:
Return of the Jedi: Luke confronts Vader, Vader dies, Han dies, Leia becomes leader of New Republic, Empire (fleet?) destroyed.
Episode 7-9: Luke travels the galaxy, cleaning up remnants of the Empire, starts to rebuild the Jedi knights, seeks the Other, Episode 9 would be Luke confronting the Emperor for final showdown.
If they had followed that, it would have had more dramatic substance for 3 films. But Luke was too traditional in that version and they cant have a strong white male being victorious.
So, he had to fail to convince Vader to turn from the Dark Side, he had to resort to anger, he had to be near death and begging for his father to save him (though I liked the moment when Vader grabs the Emperor, if you look at it from Like's POV he is weak--ineffectual). Luke does little to drive the conclusion of the story. His only big hero moment is in the Jabba scenes.
Lando is the real hero. He destroys the Death Star and is able to do it without any help from the Force or someone covering his back.
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Dec 14, 2017 2:49:03 GMT
Yes but 1) Luke knows he has abilities by this point and 2) this particular ability is hardly mind blowing. Rey meanwhile 1) knows absolutely nothing! She literally just decides... ' hey, I wonder if i can make this guard do what I say for some reason. I have no reason for believing that I can but screw it, let's give it a shot' and 2) she uses an ability that has been shown to be extremely difficult to master (Luke, in fact, demonstrates how far he's come in Return of the Jedi by using this particular ability). The earlier films establish that you don't just randomly know how to use these abilities. Yoda even thinks Luke is too old to learn how to master them (he ain't much older than Rey). It's extremely bad story telling. And again: I know that you're an idiot. If Rey was a man, I'd be asking exactly the same question. HOW!? If I'm recalling correctly, it's strongly implied that Rey learns to use the Jedi Mind Trick as the result of Kylo Ren's probing of her mind. It doesn't just come out of nowhere; she was stealing his moves. This interpretation is further informed by her character's background as a scavenger. She would be somebody adept at identifying and appropriating things of value and lived in an environment where being adaptable, quick witted and decisive would be key to survival. It makes sense for her character, which had already been strongly implied as having some inherent connection to the Force, to be able make a guess at what he was doing and boldly attempt to emulate it. Rey is also a far more determined and strong-willed person than Luke was, initially, so perhaps that also plays a part in how quickly she can learn magic that is entirely reliant on having faith in its ability to do the impossible. Of course, it was also fan-service because people love the Jedi Mind Trick for some reason. That's the main reason it was there. But it was set up properly by the film and her character and not as out of left-field as people make it out to be. The problem with this "learning thru Kylo's mind probe" argument is that it pisses all over the point of training in the other 2 trilogies. Why go through all of that youngling and padawan crap if all you have to do is mind probe each other and instantly transfer abilities and powers? Not to mention the very notion of this implicates Kylo as being one of the most inept Force users ever! At no other point in SW history has a trained Force user been vulnerable to Jedi mind tricks and probes. Less we not forget the famous line "It only works on the weak minded." Even in the (canon) Clone Wars animated series it took 3 Jedi masters to try to mind probe a non-Force user bounty hunter named Cad Bane. They just cared about reeling in Disney warrior princess fans by making Rey one, even though it doesn't harmonize with the pre-established lore. Anyone who takes the mythos of SW seriously could see that Rey was poorly written.
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Dec 14, 2017 2:55:15 GMT
Rey had also read Kylo's mind, apparently by accident, so she knew she had the Force. That was still BS, though. Well, let's be honest. Star Wars was never particularly smart or deep. If you wanted to call bullshit on its universe or the Force or its politics or character motivations, there's no shortage of things to nitpick or gripe about. Star Wars was never an exercise in world-building or a character study; it's breezy, escapist fiction and it's kinda silly and dumb. You're not supposed to think too hard about it and you're not supposed to walk away from the films with a greater understanding of the world-- you're just supposed to enjoy the ride and have a good time and be thrilled and entertained. Why Star Wars has to be something more than just a fun excursion and taken seriously is beyond me. While true, the problem is that TFA was remarkably more poorly written from a mythos standpoint than the other films.
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Dec 14, 2017 3:09:10 GMT
I'm skeptical simply for the fact critics are raving over it. They raved over Force Awakens and it was total shit and a retread of the original, and not in a Tarantino-esque homage way either. You aren't kidding. I gave it 2 out of 10. The scene where Kylo Ren leaves Mary Sue alone with one stormtrooper I kept expecting Dr Evil to pop up. JJ Abrams is the worst modern day director. He makes Michael Bay look like Cecil B Demille. And Abrams writing is ten times worse than his directing.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2017 3:14:48 GMT
If I'm recalling correctly, it's strongly implied that Rey learns to use the Jedi Mind Trick as the result of Kylo Ren's probing of her mind. It doesn't just come out of nowhere; she was stealing his moves. This interpretation is further informed by her character's background as a scavenger. She would be somebody adept at identifying and appropriating things of value and lived in an environment where being adaptable, quick witted and decisive would be key to survival. It makes sense for her character, which had already been strongly implied as having some inherent connection to the Force, to be able make a guess at what he was doing and boldly attempt to emulate it. Rey is also a far more determined and strong-willed person than Luke was, initially, so perhaps that also plays a part in how quickly she can learn magic that is entirely reliant on having faith in its ability to do the impossible. Of course, it was also fan-service because people love the Jedi Mind Trick for some reason. That's the main reason it was there. But it was set up properly by the film and her character and not as out of left-field as people make it out to be. The problem with this "learning thru Kylo's mind probe" argument is that it pisses all over the point of training in the other 2 trilogies. Why go through all of that youngling and padawan crap if all you have to do is mind probe each other and instantly transfer abilities and powers? Not to mention the very notion of this implicates Kylo as being one of the most inept Force users ever! At no other point in SW history has a trained Force user been vulnerable to Jedi mind tricks and probes. Less we not forget the famous line "It only works on the weak minded." Even in the (canon) Clone Wars animated series it took 3 Jedi masters to try to mind probe a non-Force user bounty hunter named Cad Bane. They just cared about reeling in Disney warrior princess fans by making Rey one, even though it doesn't harmonize with the pre-established lore. Anyone who takes the mythos of SW seriously could see that Rey was poorly written. Luke received cursory training at best from Obi Wan in the first film and yet in the next film, he's able to use telekinesis. If the training is such an important point when it comes to using the Force, why would he have that ability despite never being trained in it? Did Obi Wan teach him that as a ghost? Or was it just to show that he had natural potential and that the training was there to teach him control and refinement, and ultimately restraint? What I'm saying is that like Rey, he figured out a few tricks by himself after becoming aware of his ability to use the Force, but he required training to learn to control it. This doesn't piss on anything as it has been a theme present since the second film. Also, in Return of the Jedi, Darth Vader is able to read Luke's mind so it's not so far-fetched that they can probe the thoughts of other Jedi if the circumstances are right.
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