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Post by OldSamVimes on Dec 16, 2017 12:09:59 GMT
1.The evidence that we exist only in our brains is all around us. Like the Alzheimer's example that I used. Why do people lose their identity when their brain decays, if there is in fact something more to their identity than that which is produced by their brain. I know that my view is pessimistic, and most people are hard-wired for optimism. No offense bro, but you're going to have to look up the definition of 'evidence'. I'll help, here you go.
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Post by cupcakes on Dec 16, 2017 13:37:07 GMT
tpfkar Well, nuking the world would end all suffering as we know it so it seems to fit in with his philosophy. Horrifically bad ideologies aren't somehow made "good" by their holding. ![](https://s26.postimg.org/gf93ycxax/giveup.gif) Ones serving extreme religious purity have ever been nasty.
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Post by OldSamVimes on Dec 16, 2017 13:56:43 GMT
tpfkar Well, nuking the world would end all suffering as we know it so it seems to fit in with his philosophy. Horrifically bad ideologies aren't somehow made "good" by their holding. ![](https://s26.postimg.org/gf93ycxax/giveup.gif) Ones serving extreme religious purity have ever been nasty.
You are a wise man, Kyle Gass.
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Post by cupcakes on Dec 16, 2017 14:08:18 GMT
tpfkar Horrifically bad ideologies aren't somehow made "good" by their holding. ![](https://s26.postimg.org/gf93ycxax/giveup.gif) Ones serving extreme religious purity have ever been nasty.
You are a wise man, Kyle Gass. Gass powered. Jumpin' Jack Black, its a Gass Gass Gass.
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Post by OldSamVimes on Dec 16, 2017 14:12:33 GMT
Interesting fact about me... If I eat some junk food I eat a can of beans afterwards to push it all though faster.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Dec 16, 2017 14:14:11 GMT
What obstacles keep you from a child? Firstly I neither have a wife or girlfriend. By the way I'm 38 Meh, you have a few decades left to work that out.
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Post by cupcakes on Dec 16, 2017 14:15:29 GMT
tpfkar Interesting fact about me... If I eat some junk food I eat a can of beans afterwards to push it all though faster. Not nearly as interesting as others. I knew Doris Day before she was a virgin.
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Post by OldSamVimes on Dec 16, 2017 14:16:26 GMT
tpfkar Interesting fact about me... If I eat some junk food I eat a can of beans afterwards to push it all though faster. Not nearly as interesting as others. I knew Doris Day before she was a virgin.Maybe if I send you some pics it will get more interesting?
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Post by cupcakes on Dec 16, 2017 14:23:14 GMT
tpfkar Not nearly as interesting as others. I knew Doris Day before she was a virgin.Maybe if I send you some pics it will get more interesting? Whatever you subway masher types have to get out. ![](https://s26.postimg.org/gf93ycxax/giveup.gif) start me up
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Post by OldSamVimes on Dec 16, 2017 14:24:44 GMT
tpfkar Maybe if I send you some pics it will get more interesting? Whatever you subway masher types have to get out. ![](https://s26.postimg.org/gf93ycxax/giveup.gif) start me upI don't eat at Subway, I don't eat bread.
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Post by cupcakes on Dec 16, 2017 14:30:10 GMT
tpfkar Whatever you subway masher types have to get out. ![](https://s26.postimg.org/gf93ycxax/giveup.gif) I don't eat at Subway, I don't eat bread. You should get a bagel tattoo to commemorate the fact. start me up
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2017 23:12:46 GMT
tpfkar The illusion of choice does not imply and never has implied that people are locked down to having one opinion on a certain subject throughout their life. It only means that we can only choose what we are predetermined to choose based on factors that we do not choose for ourselves. Your conclusion would only make sense if I knew in advance what the outcomes would be in a) a future in which I kept my own beliefs to myself, and b) a future in which I shared my opinions with others, and found that there was no difference or only negligible difference between the 2 outcomes. If I knew that to be the case, the I probably wouldn't bother too much about sharing my own opinions, except if I felt like doing so recreationally. Since I have no ability to foretell the future, all I have are probabilities. As a conscious mind myself, I am a vessel of information that can be shared with other conscious minds. Based on the information that I have at my disposal, combined with the high degree of confidence I have in being able to defend my own opinions, then future b) seems to have a higher probability of being conducive to the outcome that I desire than b. There's no magic trick involved in any of this, nor any belief that I'm going to subvert an immutable course of events. Either you're very obtuse, or you're absolutely terrified of what you perceive as the implications of not having free will. All of that voluminous frantic jabber doesn't change one whit the baseline fact that believing that there is no real choice and simultaneously "choosing" to frantically, lugubriously attempt to get other people to choose differently than if you did absolutely nothing is sad mental incapacity. ![](https://s26.postimg.org/gf93ycxax/giveup.gif) Knowing the outcomes is absolutely irrelevant as they would be the same no matter what you pretended to choose to do. The only way you could be rational in such a system of thought would be to hold that you know it is useless but your arms are going to wave frantically on their own because precursors and there's nothing you can do about it. I guess maybe you're screaming that on the inside, but since you can't really choose anything concerning your fingers... ![](https://s26.postimg.org/py0f8ura1/sad.gif) On that note, you've also called me "deranged", which is the mental illness equivalent of "n*****"So in your estimation, unless we are all endowed this ineffable 'free will' that nobody has ever been able to define or show why it is needed alongside determinism, and of which many (likely most) secular scientists and philosophers are highly skeptical, we would all be reduced to a literal catatonic stupor? Well, putting it that way, I can certainly understand why this is so emotionally important to you. However, if responding to new information externally means that free will is required, then that means that the daffodils are exercising their free will when they bloom earlier than usual during a particularly warm spring. Or a computer is exercising free will when a programmer writes some new code for it. I know that a crisis of faith can be a very distressing ordeal, so I'm willing to pardon the insult. ![](https://s26.postimg.org/66chy60t5/wink.gif)
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Post by cupcakes on Dec 16, 2017 23:32:24 GMT
tpfkar All of that voluminous frantic jabber doesn't change one whit the baseline fact that believing that there is no real choice and simultaneously "choosing" to frantically, lugubriously attempt to get other people to choose differently than if you did absolutely nothing is sad mental incapacity. ![](https://s26.postimg.org/gf93ycxax/giveup.gif) Knowing the outcomes is absolutely irrelevant as they would be the same no matter what you pretended to choose to do. The only way you could be rational in such a system of thought would be to hold that you know it is useless but your arms are going to wave frantically on their own because precursors and there's nothing you can do about it. I guess maybe you're screaming that on the inside, but since you can't really choose anything concerning your fingers... ![](https://s26.postimg.org/py0f8ura1/sad.gif) On that note, you've also called me "deranged", which is the mental illness equivalent of "n*****"So in your estimation, unless we are all endowed this ineffable 'free will' that nobody has ever been able to define or show why it is needed alongside determinism, and of which many (likely most) secular scientists and philosophers are highly skeptical, we would all be reduced to a literal catatonic stupor? Well, putting it that way, I can certainly understand why this is so emotionally important to you. However, if responding to new information externally means that free will is required, then that means that the daffodils are exercising their free will when they bloom earlier than usual during a particularly warm spring. Or a computer is exercising free will when a programmer writes some new code for it. I know that a crisis of faith can be a very distressing ordeal, so I'm willing to pardon the insult. ![](https://s26.postimg.org/66chy60t5/wink.gif) I only know what we experience, what the science shows and the utter lunacy of your choice but no choice mania as well as your free-wheeling need-driven empty "likelys". It's not a matter of responding to "new" information, whatever that is in your thought processes, it's the derangement in furiously finding importance in making choices that you simultaneously believe aren't. And I think anybody who can read your posts, your wish for Trump to nuke the world, your frequent wails about safe spaces and the like, etc., can see both the distress, incoherency and psychopathy of your posts, and that honest appraisal does not insult make. But feel free to bawl some more about getting responses and not getting responses in between "safe-space" "harassing me" "brownie" hisses. ![trumpshrug](https://s7.postimg.org/jyv2idyjf/shrugforthedoofus.png) Not at all, because it's better for me to suffer than for a greater number of people to suffer.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2017 23:34:34 GMT
1.The evidence that we exist only in our brains is all around us. Like the Alzheimer's example that I used. Why do people lose their identity when their brain decays, if there is in fact something more to their identity than that which is produced by their brain. I know that my view is pessimistic, and most people are hard-wired for optimism. No offense bro, but you're going to have to look up the definition of 'evidence'. I'll help, here you go.
The fact that there have never been any reliably documentation of consciousness being observed to operate outside of a brain, in addition to the many indisputable correlations that are observed between brain health and behaviour confirm the fact that consciousness does not exist independently of a brain.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2017 23:40:55 GMT
tpfkar So in your estimation, unless we are all endowed this ineffable 'free will' that nobody has ever been able to define or show why it is needed alongside determinism, and of which many (likely most) secular scientists and philosophers are highly skeptical, we would all be reduced to a literal catatonic stupor? Well, putting it that way, I can certainly understand why this is so emotionally important to you. However, if responding to new information externally means that free will is required, then that means that the daffodils are exercising their free will when they bloom earlier than usual during a particularly warm spring. Or a computer is exercising free will when a programmer writes some new code for it. I know that a crisis of faith can be a very distressing ordeal, so I'm willing to pardon the insult. ![](https://s26.postimg.org/66chy60t5/wink.gif) I only know what we experience, what the science shows and the utter lunacy of your choice but no choice mania as well as your free-wheeling need-driven empty "likelys". It's not a matter of responding to "new" information, whatever that is in your thought processes, it's the derangement in furiously finding importance in making choices that you simultaneously believe aren't. And I think anybody who can read your posts, your wish for Trump to nuke the world, your frequent wails about safe spaces and the like, etc., can see both the distress, incoherency and psychopathy of your posts, and that honest appraisal does not insult make. But feel free to bawl some more about getting responses and not getting responses in between "safe-space" "harassing me" "brownie" hisses. ![trumpshrug](https://s7.postimg.org/jyv2idyjf/shrugforthedoofus.png) Not at all, because it's better for me to suffer than for a greater number of people to suffer. Subjective experience, when closely analysed, supports determinism. People don't make random decisions without precursors. Free will is the nebulous explanation that was devised to explain behaviour in the infancy of humankind. And there are still many laggards who prefer the ancient superstitious explanation to what science has revealed. What does "science [show]" that supports free will, given that you have balked at even defining what 'free will' actually is, much less what the shortcomings of the deterministic model of behaviour are which call for the superimposition of an unwieldly, nebulously defined and unparsimonious explanation such as 'free will'.
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Post by cupcakes on Dec 16, 2017 23:42:02 GMT
tpfkar The fact that there have never been any reliably documentation of consciousness being observed to operate outside of a brain, in addition to the many indisputable correlations that are observed between brain health and behaviour confirm the fact that consciousness does not exist independently of a brain. Like watching a Buddhist and a Muslim go at it. You can find everything in your Great (sad) Objective. Not at all, because it's better for me to suffer than for a greater number of people to suffer.
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Post by OldSamVimes on Dec 17, 2017 6:33:03 GMT
tpfkar I don't eat at Subway, I don't eat bread. You should get a bagel tattoo to commemorate the fact. start me upI already have a large bagel tattoo from when I went through a gluten phase.
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Post by phludowin on Dec 17, 2017 11:38:37 GMT
The fact that there have never been any reliably documentation of consciousness being observed to operate outside of a brain, in addition to the many indisputable correlations that are observed between brain health and behaviour confirm the fact that consciousness does not exist independently of a brain. That's lousy reasoning. No non-terrestrial lifeforms have ever been observed on Earth. Does this mean they do not exist? No human was ever observed walking on the Moon before 1969. Does this mean that travel to the Moon wasn't physically possible until 1969? No consciousness has ever existed outside of a brain. Yet. As far as we know. What if a powerful AI becomes self-conscious? It hasn't happened yet; but it does not mean it never will.
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Post by OldSamVimes on Dec 17, 2017 12:33:22 GMT
The fact that there have never been any reliably documentation of consciousness being observed to operate outside of a brain, in addition to the many indisputable correlations that are observed between brain health and behaviour confirm the fact that consciousness does not exist independently of a brain. False. You have obviously never read the book DMT: The Spirit Molecule. Anyone who thinks they have it all figured out is kidding themselves.
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Post by BATouttaheck on Dec 17, 2017 13:51:23 GMT
Catman is glad to have only cats. Catman is glad to have only cats and Catwoman and friends (friends, lots of friends.) fixed ![](https://s26.postimg.org/h9mxca7bt/wave.gif) I wonder if it was worth reading this thread after bumping into catman .... it looked rather tl;dr with all of the c&p so I didn't. .
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