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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2017 15:38:46 GMT
Okay, if you want to be a pedant, let me rephrase... which of my points do you disagree with? You see what you've done there is deflect in your last two posts, so that you can avoid taking on my points. Oh I don't disagree with your assertions. But then again not only do I not hold Sam in the same regard you do (to see him lose would be no surprise to me, and similarly to see Everton lose to those teams would not surprise me, with or without Sam in charge), and at the risk of repeating myself, I already predicted a return to shitness from January on, when the new-manager bounce has run its course. When I first said that I had no idea which teams Everton faced in January, and it makes little difference to me now. It makes a difference to you, of course, because it gives you an 'out'. I wonder what February's excuse will be as reality settles in? You prepared it already, or are you just going to wing it? What I find interesting is the back-door rationality for accepting failure you slipped in earlier, couched in equivocation and knowing vaguery: Even when you're Sam Allardyce? I certainly think that, but then again I know he's nothing special. Seems you're as prepared to accept he's as average a manager as the rest of us after all! What's a 'few', anyway? And do you mean back-to-back, or over the course of the season, or in one month? Who's using terms like disaster? Come on now, admit it. He's a mediocre-but-experienced manager. You're edging yourself closer to that concession before it's writ large for all to see; this much is apparent. It's ok, Stan, you're among friends. What's your call on Saturday's match against Chelsea, btw? A toughie, but I'm thinking they might actually win. 1-0. First off, thank you for bringing the discussion back on track! With regards to the new manager bounce, he didn't get it at Palace, he didn't get it at Sunderland, his last two jobs in club management. It took him time to sort out the defensive inadequacies. He performed an absolute miracle at Sunderland especially though. I mean look at where they are now. Look what happened when Moyes took over, and he had the whole season, Big Sam only had a few months after taking them over when they were rock bottom in December to survival on the last day. So I thought it would be the same again at Everton; that it would take him several weeks before he started turning it around, but because he is dealing with better players at Everton then they are better equipped to take instructions, so I think that is why he has turned it around quicker. But he's not just a great defensive coach, he's proved time and time again he can get the best out of great players, like Jay Jay Okocha, Campo, Anelka, Djorkaeff, Defoe, Zaha, Townsend, Benteke, Rooney... the list is endless... do you really think those guys are going to thrive playing 'hoof ball' like Father Jackoff lazily keeps suggesting (although clearly Jackoff knows fuck all about football)? A lot of these players were thought to be finished, that was the conventional wisdom at the time, but Big Sam gave them all a new lease of life. So he is very underrated when it comes to getting the best out of good players. If it was easy everyone would be able to do it. So I'm finding this idea that he's only doing well because of this so called new manager bounce a little ignorant. Of course Big Sam is eventually going to lose games, but he could realistically finish 7th or 8th now. No one thought that was a possibility for Everton a few weeks ago. And finishing those sort of heights, that was enough for Moyes to land the biggest job in the country at the time, it was enough for Koeman to be linked with the Barcelona job, but if Big Sam does it in his first season, in half a season, people like you will still say "he's just an average manager". He is clearly not an average manager. For one reason or another, he doesn't get a fair shake. It's an image problem, and objectivity seems to go out the window when it comes to Big Sam. I've got Chelsea down for the win on Saturday, but it wouldn't surprise me or upset me if Big Sam pulls it off again against the champions. Or at least gets a draw. |
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Father Jack
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Post by Father Jack on Dec 21, 2017 16:07:11 GMT
Oh I don't disagree with your assertions. But then again not only do I not hold Sam in the same regard you do (to see him lose would be no surprise to me, and similarly to see Everton lose to those teams would not surprise me, with or without Sam in charge), and at the risk of repeating myself, I already predicted a return to shitness from January on, when the new-manager bounce has run its course. When I first said that I had no idea which teams Everton faced in January, and it makes little difference to me now. It makes a difference to you, of course, because it gives you an 'out'. I wonder what February's excuse will be as reality settles in? You prepared it already, or are you just going to wing it? What I find interesting is the back-door rationality for accepting failure you slipped in earlier, couched in equivocation and knowing vaguery: Even when you're Sam Allardyce? I certainly think that, but then again I know he's nothing special. Seems you're as prepared to accept he's as average a manager as the rest of us after all! What's a 'few', anyway? And do you mean back-to-back, or over the course of the season, or in one month? Who's using terms like disaster? Come on now, admit it. He's a mediocre-but-experienced manager. You're edging yourself closer to that concession before it's writ large for all to see; this much is apparent. It's ok, Stan, you're among friends. What's your call on Saturday's match against Chelsea, btw? A toughie, but I'm thinking they might actually win. 1-0. First off, thank you for bringing the discussion back on track! With regards to the new manager bounce, he didn't get it at Palace, he didn't get it at Sunderland, his last two jobs in club management. It took him time to sort out the defensive inadequacies. He performed an absolute miracle at Sunderland especially though. I mean look at where they are now. Look what happened when Moyes took over, and he had the whole season, Big Sam only had a few months after taking them over when they were rock bottom in December to survival on the last day. So I thought it would be the same again at Everton; that it would take him several weeks before he started turning it around, but because he is dealing with better players at Everton then they are better equipped to take instructions, so I think that is why he has turned it around quicker. But he's not just a great defensive coach, he's proved time and time again he can get the best out of great players, like Jay Jay Okocha, Campo, Anelka, Djorkaeff, Defoe, Zaha, Townsend, Benteke, Rooney... the list is endless... do you really think those guys are going to thrive playing 'hoof ball' like Father Jackoff lazily keeps suggesting (although clearly Jackoff knows fuck all about football)? A lot of these players were thought to be finished, that was the conventional wisdom at the time, but Big Sam gave them all a new lease of life. So he is very underrated when it comes to getting the best out of good players. If it was easy everyone would be able to do it. So I'm finding this idea that he's only doing well because of this so called new manager bounce a little ignorant. Of course Big Sam is eventually going to lose games, but he could realistically finish 7th or 8th now. No one thought that was a possibility for Everton a few weeks ago. And finishing those sort of heights, that was enough for Moyes to land the biggest job in the country at the time, it was enough for Koeman to be linked with the Barcelona job, but if Big Sam does it in his first season, in half a season, people like you will still say "he's just an average manager". He is clearly not an average manager. For one reason or another, he doesn't get a fair shake. It's an image problem, and objectivity seems to go out the window when it comes to Big Sam. I've got Chelsea down for the win on Saturday, but it wouldn't surprise me or upset me if Big Sam pulls it off again against the champions. Or at least gets a draw. You're right. Perhaps if I spent less time playing football, being an active participating supporter at football, and talking with players, managers, coaches, County FAs, referees, etc; and more time watching it on telly, and listening to TV pundits, I might be as knowledgeable as yourself😉 |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2017 16:40:34 GMT
First off, thank you for bringing the discussion back on track! With regards to the new manager bounce, he didn't get it at Palace, he didn't get it at Sunderland, his last two jobs in club management. It took him time to sort out the defensive inadequacies. He performed an absolute miracle at Sunderland especially though. I mean look at where they are now. Look what happened when Moyes took over, and he had the whole season, Big Sam only had a few months after taking them over when they were rock bottom in December to survival on the last day. So I thought it would be the same again at Everton; that it would take him several weeks before he started turning it around, but because he is dealing with better players at Everton then they are better equipped to take instructions, so I think that is why he has turned it around quicker. But he's not just a great defensive coach, he's proved time and time again he can get the best out of great players, like Jay Jay Okocha, Campo, Anelka, Djorkaeff, Defoe, Zaha, Townsend, Benteke, Rooney... the list is endless... do you really think those guys are going to thrive playing 'hoof ball' like Father Jackoff lazily keeps suggesting (although clearly Jackoff knows fuck all about football)? A lot of these players were thought to be finished, that was the conventional wisdom at the time, but Big Sam gave them all a new lease of life. So he is very underrated when it comes to getting the best out of good players. If it was easy everyone would be able to do it. So I'm finding this idea that he's only doing well because of this so called new manager bounce a little ignorant. Of course Big Sam is eventually going to lose games, but he could realistically finish 7th or 8th now. No one thought that was a possibility for Everton a few weeks ago. And finishing those sort of heights, that was enough for Moyes to land the biggest job in the country at the time, it was enough for Koeman to be linked with the Barcelona job, but if Big Sam does it in his first season, in half a season, people like you will still say "he's just an average manager". He is clearly not an average manager. For one reason or another, he doesn't get a fair shake. It's an image problem, and objectivity seems to go out the window when it comes to Big Sam. I've got Chelsea down for the win on Saturday, but it wouldn't surprise me or upset me if Big Sam pulls it off again against the champions. Or at least gets a draw. You're right. Perhaps if I spent less time playing football, being an active participating supporter at football, and talking with players, managers, coaches, County FAs, referees, etc; and more time watching it on telly, and listening to TV pundits, I might be as knowledgeable as yourself😉 Nah. You're an ignoramus, and that's all there is to it. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2017 22:07:54 GMT
Oh I don't disagree with your assertions. But then again not only do I not hold Sam in the same regard you do (to see him lose would be no surprise to me, and similarly to see Everton lose to those teams would not surprise me, with or without Sam in charge), and at the risk of repeating myself, I already predicted a return to shitness from January on, when the new-manager bounce has run its course. When I first said that I had no idea which teams Everton faced in January, and it makes little difference to me now. It makes a difference to you, of course, because it gives you an 'out'. I wonder what February's excuse will be as reality settles in? You prepared it already, or are you just going to wing it? What I find interesting is the back-door rationality for accepting failure you slipped in earlier, couched in equivocation and knowing vaguery: Even when you're Sam Allardyce? I certainly think that, but then again I know he's nothing special. Seems you're as prepared to accept he's as average a manager as the rest of us after all! What's a 'few', anyway? And do you mean back-to-back, or over the course of the season, or in one month? Who's using terms like disaster? Come on now, admit it. He's a mediocre-but-experienced manager. You're edging yourself closer to that concession before it's writ large for all to see; this much is apparent. It's ok, Stan, you're among friends. What's your call on Saturday's match against Chelsea, btw? A toughie, but I'm thinking they might actually win. 1-0. First off, thank you for bringing the discussion back on track! With regards to the new manager bounce, he didn't get it at Palace, he didn't get it at Sunderland, his last two jobs in club management. It took him time to sort out the defensive inadequacies. He performed an absolute miracle at Sunderland especially though. I mean look at where they are now. Look what happened when Moyes took over, and he had the whole season, Big Sam only had a few months after taking them over when they were rock bottom in December to survival on the last day. So I thought it would be the same again at Everton; that it would take him several weeks before he started turning it around, but because he is dealing with better players at Everton then they are better equipped to take instructions, so I think that is why he has turned it around quicker. But he's not just a great defensive coach, he's proved time and time again he can get the best out of great players, like Jay Jay Okocha, Campo, Anelka, Djorkaeff, Defoe, Zaha, Townsend, Benteke, Rooney... the list is endless... do you really think those guys are going to thrive playing 'hoof ball' like Father Jackoff lazily keeps suggesting (although clearly Jackoff knows fuck all about football)? A lot of these players were thought to be finished, that was the conventional wisdom at the time, but Big Sam gave them all a new lease of life. So he is very underrated when it comes to getting the best out of good players. If it was easy everyone would be able to do it. So I'm finding this idea that he's only doing well because of this so called new manager bounce a little ignorant. Of course Big Sam is eventually going to lose games, but he could realistically finish 7th or 8th now. No one thought that was a possibility for Everton a few weeks ago. And finishing those sort of heights, that was enough for Moyes to land the biggest job in the country at the time, it was enough for Koeman to be linked with the Barcelona job, but if Big Sam does it in his first season, in half a season, people like you will still say "he's just an average manager". He is clearly not an average manager. For one reason or another, he doesn't get a fair shake. It's an image problem, and objectivity seems to go out the window when it comes to Big Sam. I've got Chelsea down for the win on Saturday, but it wouldn't surprise me or upset me if Big Sam pulls it off again against the champions. Or at least gets a draw. Did you ever get those essay assignments in school where you had to make a counter-argument in favour of something you instinctively disagreed with (you know, with titles like How Nazi Germany was a good thing, Why cigarettes should be free on the NHS or Why euthanasia needs to be mandatory)? Because as much as I'm enjoying your championing of Big Sam there's an air of inauthenticity about it that smacks of intellectual hubris. That said, don't let me stop you. It's glorious stuff, even if it's glorious hogwash. And for the record (again) - there are no people like me.  |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2017 6:36:18 GMT
First off, thank you for bringing the discussion back on track! With regards to the new manager bounce, he didn't get it at Palace, he didn't get it at Sunderland, his last two jobs in club management. It took him time to sort out the defensive inadequacies. He performed an absolute miracle at Sunderland especially though. I mean look at where they are now. Look what happened when Moyes took over, and he had the whole season, Big Sam only had a few months after taking them over when they were rock bottom in December to survival on the last day. So I thought it would be the same again at Everton; that it would take him several weeks before he started turning it around, but because he is dealing with better players at Everton then they are better equipped to take instructions, so I think that is why he has turned it around quicker. But he's not just a great defensive coach, he's proved time and time again he can get the best out of great players, like Jay Jay Okocha, Campo, Anelka, Djorkaeff, Defoe, Zaha, Townsend, Benteke, Rooney... the list is endless... do you really think those guys are going to thrive playing 'hoof ball' like Father Jackoff lazily keeps suggesting (although clearly Jackoff knows fuck all about football)? A lot of these players were thought to be finished, that was the conventional wisdom at the time, but Big Sam gave them all a new lease of life. So he is very underrated when it comes to getting the best out of good players. If it was easy everyone would be able to do it. So I'm finding this idea that he's only doing well because of this so called new manager bounce a little ignorant. Of course Big Sam is eventually going to lose games, but he could realistically finish 7th or 8th now. No one thought that was a possibility for Everton a few weeks ago. And finishing those sort of heights, that was enough for Moyes to land the biggest job in the country at the time, it was enough for Koeman to be linked with the Barcelona job, but if Big Sam does it in his first season, in half a season, people like you will still say "he's just an average manager". He is clearly not an average manager. For one reason or another, he doesn't get a fair shake. It's an image problem, and objectivity seems to go out the window when it comes to Big Sam. I've got Chelsea down for the win on Saturday, but it wouldn't surprise me or upset me if Big Sam pulls it off again against the champions. Or at least gets a draw. Did you ever get those essay assignments in school where you had to make a counter-argument in favour of something you instinctively disagreed with (you know, with titles like How Nazi Germany was a good thing, Why cigarettes should be free on the NHS or Why euthanasia needs to be mandatory)? No, I don't think my school was too keen on making the front page of the Evening Standard. I pride myself in writing in terms that the common man can understand. If you are sensing a little intellectual hubris, then I am sorry you have that perception, but it is probably a natural consequence of reading the posts of an intellectual heavyweight. Anyway, Big Sam's pre-match, pre-Christmas press conference this afternoon. I'm excited, wonder what pearls of wisdom he will come out with today? Should be good! |
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Post by runie on Dec 22, 2017 14:21:54 GMT
20 years. No major trophy. - Won plenty of trophies, despite managing unfashionable clubs. Greedy dodgy dealings. - You've got no evidence for this. None.Limps from one failing club to another. - And improved them all. Every single mother fucking one of them! he certainly didn't help palace out mate long term. well maybe sakho. but leaving as he did caused us a lot of grief....Only gets jobs because he is constantly available. - He gets jobs because he is the DON!! - or in palaces case lazy and bang out of order - leave if you are gonna - but give notice - before the end of the season sort of thing - so the club has time t=o sort stuff out....and palace is proper fashion . skills get me.Gets lucky dead cat bounce. - Didn't at Palace, didn't at Sunderland. You clearly don't know what the hell you are talking about!!Hoofball merchant. - Another lazy stereotype. Stick to your woman's football or Slugbridge FC. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2017 14:26:37 GMT
He quit right at the end of the season, you had PLENTY of time to find a replacement. And you hired De Boer. Not Big Sam's fault you hired a dud. You want him to resign while you are still in the middle of a relegation dogfight? Deary me, if it weren't for him you'd probably be in the Championship by now! |
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Post by runie on Dec 22, 2017 14:26:50 GMT
First off, thank you for bringing the discussion back on track! With regards to the new manager bounce, he didn't get it at Palace, he didn't get it at Sunderland, his last two jobs in club management. It took him time to sort out the defensive inadequacies. He performed an absolute miracle at Sunderland especially though. I mean look at where they are now. Look what happened when Moyes took over, and he had the whole season, Big Sam only had a few months after taking them over when they were rock bottom in December to survival on the last day. So I thought it would be the same again at Everton; that it would take him several weeks before he started turning it around, but because he is dealing with better players at Everton then they are better equipped to take instructions, so I think that is why he has turned it around quicker. But he's not just a great defensive coach, he's proved time and time again he can get the best out of great players, like Jay Jay Okocha, Campo, Anelka, Djorkaeff, Defoe, Zaha, Townsend, Benteke, Rooney... the list is endless... do you really think those guys are going to thrive playing 'hoof ball' like Father Jackoff lazily keeps suggesting (although clearly Jackoff knows fuck all about football)? A lot of these players were thought to be finished, that was the conventional wisdom at the time, but Big Sam gave them all a new lease of life. So he is very underrated when it comes to getting the best out of good players. If it was easy everyone would be able to do it. So I'm finding this idea that he's only doing well because of this so called new manager bounce a little ignorant. Of course Big Sam is eventually going to lose games, but he could realistically finish 7th or 8th now. No one thought that was a possibility for Everton a few weeks ago. And finishing those sort of heights, that was enough for Moyes to land the biggest job in the country at the time, it was enough for Koeman to be linked with the Barcelona job, but if Big Sam does it in his first season, in half a season, people like you will still say "he's just an average manager". He is clearly not an average manager. For one reason or another, he doesn't get a fair shake. It's an image problem, and objectivity seems to go out the window when it comes to Big Sam. I've got Chelsea down for the win on Saturday, but it wouldn't surprise me or upset me if Big Sam pulls it off again against the champions. Or at least gets a draw. Did you ever get those essay assignments in school where you had to make a counter-argument in favour of something you instinctively disagreed with (you know, with titles like How Nazi Germany was a good thing, Why cigarettes should be free on the NHS or Why euthanasia needs to be mandatory)? Because as much as I'm enjoying your championing of Big Sam there's an air of inauthenticity about it that smacks of intellectual hubris. That said, don't let me stop you. It's glorious stuff, even if it's glorious hogwash. And for the record (again) - there are no people like me. |
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Post by runie on Dec 22, 2017 14:38:18 GMT
As a paace fan. the big sdam has been our best manager in ages - literally.
Roy however with zaha, loftus (bedded in now) townsend and cabaye (plays better with more quality) - is actually playing the best footiue palace have played in a damm long time.
but big sam never looked long term at palace... he did his job and left.
but anyway on topic n- big sam has the ability to play good football. . Never thought i would say roy would - but Big Sam i think with rooney as his captain can get everton playing some good footie
I wasnt a fan of big sam saying rooney you have a free role (thats fine ) but i would like to see you further up ..
i think rooney has the best passing ability at everton and can start nice moves of.
but that freedom Sam gives him - Rooney loves. he is playing nice stuff. not boxed in stuff.
Big Sam - pep he is not. but there is no reason why he cannot get the team playing more sexy football. he has some good players and always does will in jan.,
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Post by Carl LaFong on Dec 22, 2017 16:19:56 GMT
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Father Jack
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@arsebiscuits
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Post by Father Jack on Dec 22, 2017 16:26:41 GMT
Rooney didn't say those things anyway.
The fat, drink driving, granny prostitute shagger, can barely string a coherent sentence together at the best of times..
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Post by Carl LaFong on Dec 23, 2017 14:56:49 GMT
Bump!  |
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